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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Has Mr. Jackson shown any signs of contrition?
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marillaraina
Rohan

Mar 8 2013, 2:19am

Post #176 of 240 (617 views)
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ROFL [In reply to] Can't Post

Love it. Yeah. I can imagine Jackson thinking, regarding the critics "Here's your $1,001,424,668 act of contrition right here"


marillaraina
Rohan

Mar 8 2013, 2:32am

Post #177 of 240 (630 views)
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No so sure... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
so what is Tauriel? other than pandering. and a completely altered female role. I bet she falls in love with Kili too.


I listened to http://www.aidanturnerunited.com/...-with-the-movie-bit/, which I believe was posted here a while ago, with Aidan Turner yesterday and noticed in this interview he flat out says that Laketown is important for his character.

So I'm not sure what ever is between Kili and Tauriel will actually be that a big of a deal given as Laketown appears to be more of a big deal for the character, I noticed he also mentioned they'd meet Bard in Laketown which makes me wonder, again, if the two of them won't interact in some significant way.

As for Tauriel, I don't think it's a huge thing to change the Capt of the guard into a female elf instead of a male. There are other changes, but for the most part I think those changes probably would have been made if the character had remained male.


(This post was edited by marillaraina on Mar 8 2013, 2:34am)


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Mar 8 2013, 2:52am

Post #178 of 240 (615 views)
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Absolutely [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
That to me sounds perfect. I think you could really make the impact showing the book page and then going into flashback. I think the audience would be pulled immediately into the importance of the event then and what is to come in The Lord of the Rings. IMO it just makes things even more powerful than they currently stand. I agree that by mentioning him even thenwould only add. I mean we already know part of retaking of The Lonely Mountain is because of a possible Smaug/Sauron and would make sense to go that route with Sauron/Balrog.

It does tie their history together. Between what we see in The Fellowship in Moria and what Thorin has said it makes it so much more powerful. It also helps represent the importance both have in the text Tolkien wrote. It does what I think has been done so well capture the heart of the text.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Mar 8 2013, 4:02am

Post #179 of 240 (618 views)
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Prayers and well wishes to you Sinister71 [In reply to] Can't Post

I hope you improve steadily and rapidly.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Eleniel
Tol Eressea


Mar 8 2013, 10:32am

Post #180 of 240 (583 views)
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Seconded wholeheartedly... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I hope you improve steadily and rapidly.






Your welcome voice has been missed around here. Smile


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort






Eleniel
Tol Eressea


Mar 8 2013, 10:36am

Post #181 of 240 (625 views)
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Disconcerting... [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
I listened to http://www.aidanturnerunited.com/...-with-the-movie-bit/, which I believe was posted here a while ago, with Aidan Turner yesterday and noticed in this interview he flat out says that Laketown is important for his character.


Oh good grief...is this going to be another reason why we had to have 3 films in stead of 2?


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort






burrahobbit
Rohan


Mar 8 2013, 1:34pm

Post #182 of 240 (619 views)
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Agree about the foreshadowing and LotR links [In reply to] Can't Post

They were all unnecessary, trying so hard to link to the LotR franchise while failing to enhance the telling of The Hobbit story and its characters. It's a real misunderstanding of The Hobbit story to see it as a LotR prequel.

The filmmakers have added lots that is relevant to LotR, but how does the necromancer storyline help explain Bilbo's adventure and transformation? Or enhance the themes of greed, bravery and the comedy between the dwarves and Bilbo? It just comes across as clumsy screenwriting, with the director unsure if he's being comic or serious, epic or personal and the multiple threads failing to link thematically. I couldn't really believe the same team could have written FotR and have made such basic adaptation mistakes in AUJ. Azog seems like something out of a Michael Bay film.

It would be great if AUJ was some anomaly and the trilogy will change course in writing terms. At least we will get some new locations in the forthcoming films and focus on the actual quest of Erebor. But then it seems we will get a pointless Legolas cameo, more Azog, more necromancer and goodness knows what else. The CGI heavy aesthetic is here to stay also. DoS has to be better than AUJ, but most of the key adaptation decisions are now fixed.


Elenorflower
Gondor


Mar 8 2013, 1:40pm

Post #183 of 240 (617 views)
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Ori is trying to be [In reply to] Can't Post

Pike but its too forced to be natural. When he throws down his sling in the Goblin caves or wherever it was, it doesnt look natural, its more like some doofus comedy move. it weirded me out. its not ME.

Yes I dream of Minas Tirith mostly, I can hear the wind over the Pelennor fields and the silver trumpets in the dawn calling me.

Blush


tolktolk
Lorien

Mar 8 2013, 3:14pm

Post #184 of 240 (602 views)
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And the Jacksie line! [In reply to] Can't Post

That was also clearly inspired by Pike, or rather Jonesy (in fact I am now starting to see the dwarves as Dad's Army) but it was just embarrassing.


elaen32
Gondor

Mar 8 2013, 4:41pm

Post #185 of 240 (595 views)
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What, as in.... [In reply to] Can't Post

"They don't like it up 'em Sir"??!! Or alternatively
Ori: "Whistle while you work, Azog is a twerp, 'Es 'alf barmy , So's, 'is army...."
Azog" Your name will also go on the list, what is it?" (translated into Black Speech of course)
Thorin: Don't tell him Ori!"
Apologies to all who don't know this classic Brit sitcom... I haven't lost the plot completely!!
The idea of Thorin as Capt Mainwaring, with that wig is v funny!!!

I agree though, turning Ori into Pike et al was not a good move.

"Beneath the roof of sleeping leaves the dreams of trees unfold"


tolktolk
Lorien

Mar 8 2013, 4:51pm

Post #186 of 240 (593 views)
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Hee hee [In reply to] Can't Post

You've got it exactly, love the idea of Captain Thorinwaring with the wig and Bilbo is a bit sgt Wilsonish when he is rolling his eyes during the parasites speech. Kili and Fili are the stupid boys ... this is fun!


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Mar 8 2013, 4:53pm

Post #187 of 240 (587 views)
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Adam is [In reply to] Can't Post

theater actor so i would assume he has some acting chops on him..its just the fault of the clumsy director and writers to give him such ridiculous lines and elivery. I agree with imin : i wnat to bully the geek out of him!Evil

Wow, that sounds like a wonderfull dream Elanor.But who are you in the dream?... Jacksons Steward? Shocked

I once dreamt i was a hobbit with a big sword and a company of sandwiches with pikes.

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Mar 8 2013, 4:59pm

Post #188 of 240 (582 views)
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Agreed but [In reply to] Can't Post

those basic writing choices were made also with Lotr, to expect different from jackson and crew this time around was a leap of faith that proved unprofitable.

Jackson has already said : next movie there will be some stuff which is different form the book which is good...i dread...what could it be? Bard having a bigger role and Tauriel as means to an end : having the audience know more about the woodland elves: i understand but made romances? More Azog nonsense? I sure hope dos redeems jacksons over the topness and excessiveness with AUJ.

As to the cgi aesthetic, sadly that is here to stay. If Guillermo had remained we might have had a much more middle earthean aesthethic and feel with 35 mm celluloid and miniatures ...

I look forward to the preview -trailer this month.

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Mar 8 2013, 5:21pm

Post #189 of 240 (588 views)
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Great! [In reply to] Can't Post

Getting hairy? Wink In no time you shall be turning it into an star fish head! Laugh

Great review sinister.

I think you make some valuable plot points and the way and his basic writing choices and directing style has really turned what looked to be a magical fairytale Hobbit story, just as Tolkie wrote into something else that is neither hobbit, nor lotr.

I disagree about the prologue, i loved that part. Erebor, the dragon, the dwarves, Dale etc i found was very fairytalish, beautifull and rich.

What did you think of the soundtrack?

Oh and please do post more if you can. Your comments are sorely missed and this website certainly needs some balance at the scale.

You should post a review of TH on the first page, like you did when Jackson announced the 3 film split and the appendices material and you got a hold of the transcripts.

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Mar 8 2013, 6:09pm

Post #190 of 240 (586 views)
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Thanks [In reply to] Can't Post

First off I will never have a hair-do like Nori's EVER!!! Wink.... That is the one that I hated the most, as far as dwarven hair goes LOL. But I have decided I'm growing my hair as long as it will grow and never cutting it again. The same goes for the goatee too within reason. Secondly, I figured people don't want my point of view since I call it like I see and and point out places where, what was written in the book would have worked better on film than what Jackson gave us. Like I said the first half in Baggend I found fabulous but it quickly fell apart into something NOT the Hobbit, being more concerned with special effects and sweeping 3D camera moves rather than the actual story.

As far as the soundtrackI think in the film was far too repetitive and under utilized. The official soundtrack that is for sale as an album sounded wonderful, but in the film I kept hearing the same 3 or 4 themes over and over again. OR what seemed like rehashed mixes from LOTR... Nothing new and invigorating. Almost seeming as if Howard Shore said screw it and walked away from the film and a third grader stepped in and made the decisions on what music went where in the film. I was truly let down with the way the music in the film played out after hearing the actual soundtrack cds. It could have been SO much more grandiose IMO.

Let me rephrase Erobor and the prologue.. I liked the look of Erobor and Dale, and for the most part the characters. I just didn't care for the rewritten back story involved in it. To me that scene would have been much better as a memory (flashback) of Thorin's in Baggend rather than Bilbo telling it ... Bilbo telling the tale of Erobor just didn't have the weight it should have had IMO. But Thorin telling it would have. Like someone recounting a tale they knew nothing about but telling it like they knew every detail and what really happened. Even though they truly don't have a clue. Then having the elves that close to Erobor after Smaug attacked and doing nothing? Really? Sounds like a badly written made for TV drama, making up something so bad just to make up some sort of conflict that's not needed. Thranduil imprisoning the dwarves should have been enough to cause the dislike between the races. I liked the look of the dragon from what we could see, but we really didn't get to see much of him.

There were a couple things changed that I did like such as Thorin showing up late, and the betting scene was entertaining. Riddles in the dark wasn't ALL bad, although I will say I hated Gollum chasing Bilbo and wish they had Bilbo follow Gollum like in the book. That and honestly I would have preferred to see Gandalf show up at Baggend just as Bilbo thought things were over and rush him out the door to join the dwarves, with NO backpack. Bilbo wearing a hood and cloak that were too big for him (I believe he was wearing Dori's spare hood and cloak) would have been a nice touch. Hearing Bilbo talk about bacon and eggs and his warm fire in Baggend more would have been cool, since in the book he is constantly grumbling about wishing he was back at Baggend...There were so many little things Jackson could have done and still stuck closer to the book to make AUJ, SO... SO.. SO much better than it was. To me I think Peter Jackson was more concerned with the technology in making the film and connecting it to the LOTR trilogy than actually telling the story of the Hobbit or keeping any faithfulness to the text of that book. Or at least keeping the context of the story intact as Tolkien wrote it.


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Mar 8 2013, 6:11pm

Post #191 of 240 (580 views)
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No Learning [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I sure hope dos redeems jacksons over the topness and excessiveness with AUJ.


Jackson and maybe Boyens (I have my doubts about her affection) love their fans, but not their opinions. Jackson makes the movie he wants to see, and if that coincides with fan opinion, so much the better, but is not dependent upon them. By all empirical evidence, Hollywood does not learn from history, but willfully repeats it. Look for more of the same.


Elessar
Valinor


Mar 8 2013, 6:46pm

Post #192 of 240 (564 views)
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Calling it like it is [In reply to] Can't Post

Is always welcome. The key is to remember we're only calling it like it is for us. Sometimes that gets lost by people who post critical comments and positive comments. So post that you don't like the movie. You're not gonna be alone there are at least a few of ya. lol Cool



Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Mar 8 2013, 6:48pm

Post #193 of 240 (561 views)
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There was never much hope [In reply to] Can't Post

just a fool's hope. Wink


Yes, i am not holding my breath. For some reason i also get the feeling that it is Boyens who is less open to criticism and opinions from fans.

And if she can come up with Azog and the need for his tale of vengeance to happen in real time, what else might happen...

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Elenorflower
Gondor


Mar 8 2013, 6:57pm

Post #194 of 240 (572 views)
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I have a horrible feeling [In reply to] Can't Post

they are going to make Thranduil a 'baddie'. and Tauriel is in Laketown falling in love with Bard and his sickeningly cute kid. 'gee pop! is that my new mom?'

*projectile vomit*


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Mar 8 2013, 7:02pm

Post #195 of 240 (563 views)
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I thought the film was great [In reply to] Can't Post

when it stuck to the book. Other than that IMO it was awfully written and rehashed dialogue from LOTR in spots and took events out of context to match Jackson's LOTR trilogy instead of keeping with the story in the book. Trust me I know I'm not alone in my displeasure of the film so far. Personally I feel let down. Peter Jackson took an opportunity to make what was one of the most anticipated films ever and turned it into something that strays so far from the source that the only real common thread is the name "the Hobbit"

I get his wanting the bigger picture, but in doing so he has killed the escence of Bilbo's adventure turning it into something its not. But that's only MY opinion Wink


DanielLB
Immortal


Mar 8 2013, 7:05pm

Post #196 of 240 (582 views)
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When would Bard and Tauriel ever come in to contact? [In reply to] Can't Post

A relationship with Kili is far more likely.


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Mar 8 2013, 7:10pm

Post #197 of 240 (568 views)
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How about some Bofur mustache? [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink

By all means, be hairy, be happy! Sly

There are some people who dont wish or cant stand to see precious Hobbit filmssss critisized and get all Smaugy and Intolerant ..but, there are also many people who value posts and opinions such as your own. Please, write away! Smile


I think jackson is more interested in making a good spectacle with lots of action and cgi and hacking and chasing around than properly adapting TH. He nailed it in the first hour, i think, but then he forgets what TH is about.

The bacon dialogue would have been wonderfull.

When i hear that scenes such as :

Gloin talking about his family
Saruman and the seven rings
Bilbo buying the fish at the market and avoiding Gandy
Bilbo exploring Rivendell and Meeting Elrond
Bofur singing a song at the dinner table
Gandalf remembering young Bilbo

was left out in fvaour of time spent with : cgi extravaganza ott theme park ride with flying ladders and golins and video game antics with the Gobli King, ridiculous warg chases, Azog behaving and talking like a God of War charcater with the thro him to the wolves scene, pointless action at the trolls, OTT giants boxing match, etc...

Jckson's priorities become clear to me. Which is why i look forward to the Extended Edition.

Agreed, the album soundtrack is more interesting than the actual film music which was used. I was quickly tired of the misty mountains theme being inserted into every dwarfs attacking moment...

I understand your quibbles with the prologue and i can imagine how Thorin narrating it might be interesting, but for me, since i didnt like Thorin and like Bilbo, and since its a film about Bilbo, and his tale , i find it appropriate that it is him who narrates the prologue.

The elves...i liked it all even Thranduils abandoning of the dwarves...Blush and visiting Thror.


Thorin showing up late is a change i appreciate, a is Bilbos next morning scene. I prefer it to the actual book moment. It was just so powerfull, his body language, his movements, his slow realization of what his life would be if he stayed that he just JUMPS out the door in full Tookish mode to go on an adventure! And the bet scene was lovely yes, and the handkerchief was such a good laugh.

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!

(This post was edited by Lusitano on Mar 8 2013, 7:15pm)


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Mar 8 2013, 7:18pm

Post #198 of 240 (569 views)
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I get Thranduil being [In reply to] Can't Post

played as an unlikeable character at first...but Bard and Tauriel? Dont give me nightmares please...Crazy

Also, wouldnt that be interracial breeding, which in ME ...doesnt really happen that much? I dont remember...between woodland elves and the men of laketown...

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Elessar
Valinor


Mar 8 2013, 7:31pm

Post #199 of 240 (553 views)
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Fair Enough [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think its perfect but I did enjoy it very much. I feel bad for yall that feel let down because I know how I would have felt if this movie wasn't what I had wanted to see. For me this was every bit The Hobbit as I could hope. I hope for those that didn't like it things going forward are better for you all.



Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Mar 8 2013, 7:35pm

Post #200 of 240 (555 views)
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It is like [In reply to] Can't Post

having been teased with the greatest christmas gift ever....and then having it be just some socks. Sly

What did you think of Azog?

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!

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