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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Lord of the Rings:
SCOD: "Sauron will strike us soon, and he will strike hard"


Mar 6 2013, 7:34pm

Post #1 of 6 (402 views)
SCOD: "Sauron will strike us soon, and he will strike hard" Can't Post



Questions follow, feel free to answer any, all, or none of them!

1. Imagine you have never read the book (if you have read it, that is). How effective do you feel this scene is in establishing who is attacking whom from where? Do you feel it was a useful scene overall?

2. How well do you feel Faramir was presented in this film? Do you agree with the filmmakers decision to change his character? If not, do you understand why they did it or do you still feel that they could have achieved the same goal in other ways?

3. Do you think that the Faramir in The Return of the King was closer to the Faramir Tolkien intended?

4. Any other thoughts/comments?

"These are Gundabad Wargs! They will outrun you!"

"THESE are Rhosgobel Rabbits! I'd like to see them try...."

Grey Havens

Mar 6 2013, 8:29pm

Post #2 of 6 (242 views)
Faramir [In reply to] Can't Post

1. I thought the map was easy to follow, but I really can't look at the question as a non-reader. Not only had I read the books 20+ times over the course of two decades by the time I saw the film, I used to play a strategy/war game set on a map of Middle Earth when I was a kid... Certainly, I thought when viewing that the occasional map showings and geography discussions might help those who were not familiar with the fictional world of the films, and liked to know such things.

2. Did they, really? They certainly changed the actions the character took, but I had no difficulty recognizing him and reconciling him with the Faramir of my imagination, the one I met reading the books. I did not initially (when viewing it in theaters) know why they had changed his part, but also did not wonder. And I really liked a lot of what happened in the movie-only scenes in Osgiliath, both Faramir's decision to free Frodo and Sam, his exchange with Sam, and Sam's speech about stories, so it was not a thing I thought much about. When viewing the EE I really liked the movie-only scenes with Boromir and Faramir at Osgiliath.

Only when watching the special features did I come across the notion that the change was controversial, along with an explanation for the change, that it was necessary to maintain a consistent depiction of the Ring's great power. To me this explanation makes sense. Since I'd not had a problem with the change (and in fact enjoyed the movie scenes that resulted) I guess I've never considered whether there would be a way to avoid this particular change. I have considered how/whether the book solves this problem, and I'd say it doesn't, really.

3. I thought Faramir as a film character was quite consistent across the two films.

Tol Eressea

Mar 8 2013, 8:00am

Post #3 of 6 (217 views)
Faramir and the map [In reply to] Can't Post

I understood the reasoning for the changes in Faramir's story. I didn't necessarily like the changes, but I understood. However much it hurt to see Faramir succumb to the ring for a while, it made his later deeds and sacrifices that much more poignant.

As for the map, I just realized that it looks exactly like Bilbo's in style. Of course that was because they were crafted by the same person for the film, based on Tolkien's drawings. But for the sake of internal logic, would a 60+ year old Dwarf map look like a relatively new one from Gondor? Just being nit-picky. Tongue

"The question isn't where, Constable, but when." - Inspector Spacetime


Mar 8 2013, 1:17pm

Post #4 of 6 (196 views)
Well [In reply to] Can't Post

1. Not very well - I understand why PJ decided late in the game to try it. But when you follow the conversation and the way the fingers move on the map - you realize that this discussion seems like two boys playing ranger instead of two people high up in the Gondorian army discussing the situation, having lived with this war for years. Plus, the non-reader will still have problems to take in the geographical information so quickly as they do not really have a reference point on the map.

2. Yes, I confess to like movie Faramir more as a character than book-Faramir (and yeah, still consider myself to be devoted to Tolkien). To have him closer to Boromir's character for a while makes his decision to let Frodo go an even bigger personal sacrifice, I think. One of the "little" deeds that change so much. And I simply love that Osgiliath was included so prominently in the movies.

3. I actually believe that Tolkien would have at least not been a complete opponent of this change. At the very least he would have had some understanding of the dramaturgic reasons.


Mar 10 2013, 9:50am

Post #5 of 6 (155 views)
Let's see... [In reply to] Can't Post

1. I loved this scene. I did watch the movies before I read the book, so it helped my then-noobishness to understand what was going on in the film in terms of attacks and locations. It's a very good scene for those not familiar with the book.

2. This is something that has niggled at me for years. I was never very fond of how his character was changed in TTT (Okay, I moaned about it for weeks), but I understood that PJ had to make him want the ring. Then again, someone pointed out to me that, wouldn't it make Faramir all too perfect to reject the ring in the book? Fair enough, but I think that he was longing for it in his heart, he just tried to ignore the longing and never showed it outwards. The only thing that really bothered me was the fact that he allowed his men to be so cruel towards Gollum.

3. Closer than in TTT, yes. Perfect, really. The emotion that Wenham gave off showed the real Faramir.

4. When are we going to see Faramir and Eowyn's marriage? In the Extended Extended Edition. 50th anniversary of LotR?


"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards because a refusal often offends." - Terry Pratchett

(This post was edited by BoromirOfWinterfell on Mar 10 2013, 9:53am)

Tol Eressea

Mar 11 2013, 8:18pm

Post #6 of 6 (155 views)
Good scene, yes. [In reply to] Can't Post

1) I think that the movie needed to take a breather at this point and catch everybody up on who was where, and why.

2) I really like movie Faramir. And i don't see him as being tempted by the lure of the ring, but as a way to prove his "quality" to his father, who definitely was under the ring's thrall. When Sam told him how Borimir died, and how the ring drove him mad, Faramir gave the ring up without much effort, in keeping with the book. It added depth to the character without detracting too much from the character, and kept the danger level of the ring's corrupting power appropriately high.


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