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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Warg chase
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LordElrond
Rivendell


Mar 8 2013, 1:23am

Post #1 of 53 (751 views)
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Warg chase Can't Post

I've seen alot of negativity about this particular scene here and on other forums and I want to know why people don't like it. Is it simply because it wasn't in the book? The cgi?

Disscuss.


Lio
Lorien


Mar 8 2013, 1:41am

Post #2 of 53 (466 views)
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CGI and Bunny Sled [In reply to] Can't Post

Personally I had no problem with the scene, but most of the complaints I've seen seem to revolve around the CGI. Also I'm getting the feeling that some people just don't like the overall silliness of Radagast and/or the bunny sled.

Come on, people! These are RHOSGOBEL RABBITS! Wink

Want to chat? AIM me at Yami Liokaiser!


arithmancer
Grey Havens


Mar 8 2013, 1:56am

Post #3 of 53 (420 views)
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Great line! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Come on, people! These are RHOSGOBEL RABBITS! Wink


That was a great line. Smile

I found the action in this scene to be confusing. Who was hiding where and where they were trying to get to, and was Radagast sledding around in circles or did the landscape just have a lot of sameness to it?

After seeing it a few times I decided probably the Warg-riding Orcs were spread out and Radagast had to do a lot of turning to and fro to avoid them as he encountered new ones coming from different directions.

For this reason, it was probably my least liked scene. But not a big deal.


imin
Valinor


Mar 8 2013, 2:11am

Post #4 of 53 (414 views)
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a few things really [In reply to] Can't Post

The easiest one to talk about would be the CGI - it was below the level before or after this scene and felt very rushed because of it.

Combine that with two characters i thought were not very good made it more tiring. I don't really like the bunny sled but its more meh by the time i watched the film. The warg designs i feel were a big improvement upon the ones in TTT but are still pretty rubbish especially compared to the tiger from life of pi.

Overall it just felt like it was left in for padding to me and they rushed it through in time for the film - hence the bad CGI. But it gets them into Rivendell so as a plot device for that its decent - i dunno i don't want to just slam the scene but basically i didn't rate it. I would have preferred Radagast to go off with his bunnies and all the wargs chase after them - Azog happened to be there and chased after Radagast and both were never seen again, lol.


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Mar 8 2013, 2:48am

Post #5 of 53 (389 views)
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for starters [In reply to] Can't Post

The CGI looked horrible. It was like they couldn't get him in the scene so they just painted him on top of the scene. Then there was the fact that instead of leading the Orc's away from the dwarves he kept leading them closer to them. If I had to choose a warg scene honestly I would have took the Hyena-wargs from TTT because they at least looked, to me anyways, to be IN the scene and not just painted on to it after it was all over. Radagast could have been a really cool character but just came off to me as too silly. Not necessarily absent minded as much as an idiot or half wit.

If Radagast had been well done whether he was in the book or not I could have accepted him. But he was just too OTT acting like a moron IMO. Sure his heart might have been in the right place but his actions and mind clearly were not. I think McCoy did the best he could with the material he was given.


imin
Valinor


Mar 8 2013, 2:49am

Post #6 of 53 (364 views)
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Nice to see you back here [In reply to] Can't Post

I hope you are doing well Smile


Joe20
Lorien


Mar 8 2013, 2:54am

Post #7 of 53 (360 views)
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This... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
The CGI looked horrible. It was like they couldn't get him in the scene so they just painted him on top of the scene. Then there was the fact that instead of leading the Orc's away from the dwarves he kept leading them closer to them. If I had to choose a warg scene honestly I would have took the Hyena-wargs from TTT because they at least looked, to me anyways, to be IN the scene and not just painted on to it after it was all over. Radagast could have been a really cool character but just came off to me as too silly. Not necessarily absent minded as much as an idiot or half wit.

If Radagast had been well done whether he was in the book or not I could have accepted him. But he was just too OTT acting like a moron IMO. Sure his heart might have been in the right place but his actions and mind clearly were not. I think McCoy did the best he could with the material he was given.


My thoughts exactly. 100% agree


cats16
Valinor

Mar 8 2013, 3:19am

Post #8 of 53 (368 views)
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Actually I can forgive the CGI... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think my eyes accept it, even though it's not their best work. I admit that.

But the only thing I slightly disliked was the sense of direction/geography throughout the scene (or lack thereof). It was somewhat hard to figure out which way each group was going. I couldn't tell if Radagast was leading the Wargs away from Thorin & Co., or closer to them! This feeling went away as the scene progressed, right about when the Dwarves see the Wargs surrounding them next to the Hidden Path.

I understand that they wanted us to be as frantic and confused as the Dwarves were during this scene, but I think it was just a little too much.

But hey, that's pretty nit-pickey. Just something that I noticed.


Kimtc
Rohan


Mar 8 2013, 5:21am

Post #9 of 53 (339 views)
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Wolves (wargs) seem to be problematic in CGI [In reply to] Can't Post

I have yet to see a movie with CGI wolves of any kind (wargs, werewolves, native-American shapeshifter wolves, mutant post-apocalyptic frozen wasteland wolves) that look remotely believeable. I think it's because they are so close to dogs, and since we see dogs all the time we have trouble suspending disbelief when confronted with a CGI canine (as opposed to tigers, apes, goblins, etc.).

As for the Radagast part, he's grown on me. The sled, too (the rabbits look more believeable than the wargs).


Sślimė
Rivendell


Mar 8 2013, 5:36am

Post #10 of 53 (322 views)
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I agree with this! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
But the only thing I slightly disliked was the sense of direction/geography throughout the scene (or lack thereof). It was somewhat hard to figure out which way each group was going. I couldn't tell if Radagast was leading the Wargs away from Thorin & Co., or closer to them! This feeling went away as the scene progressed, right about when the Dwarves see the Wargs surrounding them next to the Hidden Path.


I also feel that it's a bit weird that they are in this gigantic field one moment, and five minutes later they are at Rivendell???

This can be fixed if they show the hidden passage to be much, much longer in the EE!


lurtz2010
Rohan

Mar 8 2013, 5:52am

Post #11 of 53 (320 views)
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the landscape looked too much like rohan [In reply to] Can't Post

Not a big deal but I would've prefered a new environment from the last time we saw a warg attack. I remember seeing that same dull coloured grass and rock formations in one of the vlogs and wondering why they wanted to repeat the same looking grasslands. I liked the area with all the pine trees everywhere though.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Mar 8 2013, 6:20am

Post #12 of 53 (333 views)
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NOOOO! Not the damned hyena! [In reply to] Can't Post

In some places they were even more CGI obvious. . . but they were also Hyena. No, No. No. One of the things that pleased me most, in terms of changes made from Rings to Hobbit, was that at least the wargs looked like a monstrous branch of the wolf family, warped by demonic inhabitance and evil. They could have been better, but they were good and MUCH better than the hyena. I thought the chase scene was superflous, though I really liked the coming of the first two wargs in the forest. I wish they had been harder to kill. I wish the wargs had been shown acting independant of orc/goblin riders. But I am VERY thankful for the change in the look of the wargs.

In Reply To
The CGI looked horrible. It was like they couldn't get him in the scene so they just painted him on top of the scene. Then there was the fact that instead of leading the Orc's away from the dwarves he kept leading them closer to them. If I had to choose a warg scene honestly I would have took the Hyena-wargs from TTT because they at least looked, to me anyways, to be IN the scene and not just painted on to it after it was all over. Radagast could have been a really cool character but just came off to me as too silly. Not necessarily absent minded as much as an idiot or half wit.

If Radagast had been well done whether he was in the book or not I could have accepted him. But he was just too OTT acting like a moron IMO. Sure his heart might have been in the right place but his actions and mind clearly were not. I think McCoy did the best he could with the material he was given.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Rolfina
Rivendell


Mar 8 2013, 7:26am

Post #13 of 53 (294 views)
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What you said [In reply to] Can't Post

plus the sudden change of scenery several times.


DanielLB
Immortal


Mar 8 2013, 8:23am

Post #14 of 53 (311 views)
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The wargs ... again ... [In reply to] Can't Post

One of my main quibbles with the film are the wargs. How can Gollum (and the Trolls and the eagles, for that matter) look so stunningly realistic, yet the wargs are worse than the ones in Twilight? In my opinion, the CGI is no better than the TTT wargs; and at the moment, I don't understand the change. If the CGI wasn't up to it, they should've scrapped that entire scene.


Glorfindela
Valinor

Mar 8 2013, 8:47am

Post #15 of 53 (290 views)
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I agree about the Wargs [In reply to] Can't Post

I didn't like them in TTT, and I didn't like them in AUJ. I can see what people are saying about the meandering path Radagast took, but overall I have fun with that scene. I like Radagast more every time I see him – though I find the make-up and things like the stick insect a bit off-putting. The Rhosgobel rabbits are fun, and I think they are very well done. I also like the landscape and the way Thorin and company face up to the Warg riders.

It's true that the Trolls, Gollum and the Eagles look much more realistic than the Warg-hyenas.


In Reply To
One of my main quibbles with the film are the wargs. How can Gollum (and the Trolls and the eagles, for that matter) look so stunningly realistic, yet the wargs are worse than the ones in Twilight? In my opinion, the CGI is no better than the TTT wargs; and at the moment, I don't understand the change. If the CGI wasn't up to it, they should've scrapped that entire scene.



Verbal_Daggers
The Shire


Mar 8 2013, 9:45am

Post #16 of 53 (283 views)
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I disagree... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think in most of AUJ the wargs were really well done - I definitely prefer the new design as opposed to the the design in TTT and I also think that the CGI was much better - especially the white warg looked amazingly real to me at least in 3D HFR (which is the only way I have seen the movie so far).

It is only the warg chase sequence in which the CGI didn't match the standards of the rest of the movie which leads me to believe that that sequence was rushed and probably conceptualized very late ... I mean if you ignored the warg sequence, would you still say the warg CGI wasn't up to the rest of the movie's CGI? I think the rest is fine - just look at the burning forest scenes - there the CGI was perfectly fine imo ;)


DanielLB
Immortal


Mar 8 2013, 10:01am

Post #17 of 53 (277 views)
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I think the Wargs worked(ish) at the end ... [In reply to] Can't Post

Because it was dark (and because that whole scene is just awesome). The only other time the wargs fell apart was in the forest. I don't know what it is, but when they charge at the Company, something isn't quite right.

The white warg probably looks the best since it was a combination of CGI and animatronics.


Verbal_Daggers
The Shire


Mar 8 2013, 10:21am

Post #18 of 53 (265 views)
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Falkor :) [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
The white warg probably looks the best since it was a combination of CGI and animatronics.


I was wondering whether it was animatronics in the weathertop scene since I always thought of this thing:
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/...ages/c/c4/Fuchur.jpg
while watching ;)

Hmm I think the CGI in the forest worked very well (especially compared to the messy warg chase sequence) but then again I might have been distracted by the wonderful set design and background - I just adore that scene in that respect - It looks so magical Wink


Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Gondor


Mar 8 2013, 11:26am

Post #19 of 53 (260 views)
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Orcs and Wargs were not created to appear during daylight ;-) [In reply to] Can't Post

I already couldn't understand why Sharku and his warg-riders in TTT were able to attack the Rohirrim at daylight. Now again we see Orcs on Wargs who seem to have no problem with the sun and daylight aswell.

In FOTR Gandalfs says to Elrond: "[..] An army that can move in sunlight and cover great distance at speed." What implies that only Sarumans Uruk-Hai can move in sunlight and ALL other Orcs can't. It's in the movie. Now we've got Sharku and his Orcs (there's no Uruk anywhere) in TTT and we've got Yazneg, Fimbul and their Orc pack in AUJ and there's no Uruk too. I'm not talking about Grishnįkh and his Orcs walking at daylight with Uglśk and his Uruks... that would have been too much ;-)

If you ask me that's the main problem ;-) Orcs and Wargs were not created to appear during daylight. That's why they look fake at day and great at night. But sadly Peter Jackson and his team do forget this again and again ;-)


"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."

(This post was edited by Lieutenant of Dol Guldur on Mar 8 2013, 11:28am)


imin
Valinor


Mar 8 2013, 12:57pm

Post #20 of 53 (225 views)
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I am thinking [In reply to] Can't Post

It's because they knew gollum had to look incredible - which he did. but with so much CGI to do they then had to spread their workload over the rest of the things in the film, wargs included meaning they didn't look as good as they could have, if they put all their effort into it e.g. if there was no gollum in the film. It is curious though as WETA are so good at basically everything they do, yet wargs seem to be their big weakness.


Rostron2
Gondor


Mar 8 2013, 4:14pm

Post #21 of 53 (198 views)
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I had no problem with it [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, the bunny sled is over-the-top. However, it bought them time for Gandalf to find the entrance to the hidden valley, which was sort of cool. People wanted serious LOTR stuff out of this film right away. I think we'll see a graduation to more serious subjects over the next two films. You still need humor to break the tension.

As for the CGI, it works for me.


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Mar 8 2013, 4:31pm

Post #22 of 53 (192 views)
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Exactly [In reply to] Can't Post

plus, the cgi is not that great, looks fake and hookey at times. Though i prefer these wargs in termos of their design to the hyena ones from ttt.

Vous commencez ą m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Elessar
Valinor


Mar 8 2013, 4:32pm

Post #23 of 53 (195 views)
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Wargs [In reply to] Can't Post

I had no problem with the way the Wargs looked. I do actually prefer the way they looked in The Lord of the Rings I think over The Hobbit by just a little. As far as the scene I didn't have a problem with it but did laugh that bits and pieces were off in the same way they were off 10+ years ago. lol I also found it funny that he seemed to be going in a circle but it didnt hinder my appreciation of the movie.



Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Mar 8 2013, 6:19pm

Post #24 of 53 (168 views)
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Wasn't saying I prefer the Hyenna design [In reply to] Can't Post

but to me at least those wargs from TTT looked like they were a part of the scene, not simply painted over top of it. And maybe that was because they used more animatronics or something intercut with CG. What ever the reason the hyenna wargs looked to be much more a part of the action. I do like the wargs more wolf-like honestly but this time around they just felt, not to be a part of the action. and felt they fell drastically short of the concept art we seen earlier on. I think much furrier wargs would have worked, almost like some hairy hell spawned giant wolf instead of the sleek rat-like almost hairless creatures that we got.


TheSexyBeard
Lorien

Mar 8 2013, 6:24pm

Post #25 of 53 (168 views)
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This [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I have yet to see a movie with CGI wolves of any kind (wargs, werewolves, native-American shapeshifter wolves, mutant post-apocalyptic frozen wasteland wolves) that look remotely believeable. I think it's because they are so close to dogs, and since we see dogs all the time we have trouble suspending disbelief when confronted with a CGI canine (as opposed to tigers, apes, goblins, etc.).

As for the Radagast part, he's grown on me. The sled, too (the rabbits look more believeable than the wargs).




Agree 100% the more familiar the creature that harder to pull of more convincingly. I think this can be said for any real animal to be honest. If it doesn't exist I think it has a higher chance of suspending disbelief when it comes to CGI.

I've only seen the film once, I can't remember feeling the CGI was lacklustre, but at the same time I can remember being amazed by some scenes. I'll wait till the DVD release to form an opinion.

Yes, my username is terrible.

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