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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Has Mr. Jackson shown any signs of contrition?
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Elessar
Valinor


Mar 7 2013, 6:00pm

Post #151 of 240 (675 views)
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Thank ya sir :) [In reply to] Can't Post

Those are all things I know I didn't physically but mentally rolled my eyes on and with the change in history did feel a little let down when Balin got through his story. No Balrog on top of the other changes was a shoulder shrug. I would like to see Gandalf be considered more of an equal to Galadriel though its something I can work with in context of all things considered. I'm with ya. I loved this movie as I've said several times to the point I'm sure its annoys someone. lol Its not perfect but I was so glad with how it came out. The Stone Giants I liked but I can see how it could be OTT with some. I like the entire sequence but I could roll with them being smaller giants. I admit I expected more of what I saw in The Lord of the Rings: The War in the North video game.



Brethil
Half-elven


Mar 7 2013, 6:01pm

Post #152 of 240 (711 views)
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I agree, In relation to amount and scope of LOTR canon changes [In reply to] Can't Post

Indeed many more were made than what we see so far in TH. It is one of the things I am profoundly enjoying about the three film split. As i posted earlier, we fans have the indulgence of the three film option solely BECAUSE of the success of LOTR. We are fortunate in that it has become rather a self-sustaining ecosytem, as it were.
I don't see the detailed charactarizations (ie:Thorin) as a departure or a canon violation; instead, given the light nature of the text some sort of development is completely necessary. I am willing to go on faith for the Orc subplots as the film requires an antagonistic focus. Even the Tauriel issue to me is rather a non-issue: she's not a mutated Arwen (thank goodness) and certainly in the background there were any amount of other random individuals running about; I don't see harm in highlighting some of them. As far as where they will go, (ie: Dwarf/Elf relationship ) I have faith there too. Thankfully we simply are NEVER going to see a sweaty and disturbing Excalibur type sexualized scene from this crew. That was one of my points earlier: I think this crew was weighing very carefully integrity versus mass appeal. I think they did well with the balance - because there will ALWAYS be that immovable issue in filmmaking.

I absolutely adore LOTR. We need to keep an mind when comparing the trilogies that we have had over a decade to let LOTR "settle" in our minds, In time and fullness of the three TH films this will happen as well. And as you state, Ainur Olorin, unless there is some sort of sharp decline I feel the finished product will nestle quite nicely with LOTR.

I feel that I did not address the question fully of whether TH is a "career defining" trilogy or not. Have thought a lot about it since last night, and two points arise:
1. Can there BE another more career defining trilogy for SPJ and crew after LOTR? and....
2. Does he require further definition? So is it a relevant issue at all.

I'm a negotiating sort but I will not entertain the apology concept.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Mar 7 2013, 6:28pm

Post #153 of 240 (677 views)
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I understand. [In reply to] Can't Post

There were some dodgy bits post trolls to be certain. The Council scene looked beautiful, but it was neither without merit nor without flaw. I forgive the second half for alot because Gandalf's entrance into Goblin Town made me so happy. lol. Yet I do understand where you are coming from on some of this.

In Reply To
because those examples you quote which are indeed very good, and this excellent beginning up to say the Trolls went rapidly down hill (for me). I love the Misty Mountain song and Good Morning and the Party, all good stuff, and the Dale/Erebor sequence had me glued to the screen it was so interesting. Riddles was also excellent, Martin and Andy were the hilight of the film for me. The atmosphere of the Dale/Erebor sequence was very fresh and new, but at the point where they find the deserted house before the Trolls is where they lost me. I got increasingly disillusioned from that moment. it was fidgetsville. Laugh


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Mar 7 2013, 6:34pm

Post #154 of 240 (682 views)
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I am holding out hope, because of The Fire in the Moria scene within the halls, [In reply to] Can't Post

and because of where we know things end up with Balin and Movie Gandalf and Saruman having full knowledge of what/who dwells within, and because so much is unclear regarding Azog (on site intervention by an Evil Maiar could certainly have gone a long way to helping him survive his loss of limb), that we will yet see a slightly larger nod to Durin's Bane. He is so inextricably woven into the fate of Durin's folk, after all.


In Reply To
Those are all things I know I didn't physically but mentally rolled my eyes on and with the change in history did feel a little let down when Balin got through his story. No Balrog on top of the other changes was a shoulder shrug. I would like to see Gandalf be considered more of an equal to Galadriel though its something I can work with in context of all things considered. I'm with ya. I loved this movie as I've said several times to the point I'm sure its annoys someone. lol Its not perfect but I was so glad with how it came out. The Stone Giants I liked but I can see how it could be OTT with some. I like the entire sequence but I could roll with them being smaller giants. I admit I expected more of what I saw in The Lord of the Rings: The War in the North video game.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Mar 7 2013, 6:36pm

Post #155 of 240 (670 views)
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Wellllllllll. . . an Uther and Igrane style romping betwixt Filli (or Kili) and Tauriel [In reply to] Can't Post

might be just the angle that would really sell me on this whole Tauriel affair after all. Lol.

In Reply To
Indeed many more were made than what we see so far in TH. It is one of the things I am profoundly enjoying about the three film split. As i posted earlier, we fans have the indulgence of the three film option solely BECAUSE of the success of LOTR. We are fortunate in that it has become rather a self-sustaining ecosytem, as it were.
I don't see the detailed charactarizations (ie:Thorin) as a departure or a canon violation; instead, given the light nature of the text some sort of development is completely necessary. I am willing to go on faith for the Orc subplots as the film requires an antagonistic focus. Even the Tauriel issue to me is rather a non-issue: she's not a mutated Arwen (thank goodness) and certainly in the background there were any amount of other random individuals running about; I don't see harm in highlighting some of them. As far as where they will go, (ie: Dwarf/Elf relationship ) I have faith there too. Thankfully we simply are NEVER going to see a sweaty and disturbing Excalibur type sexualized scene from this crew. That was one of my points earlier: I think this crew was weighing very carefully integrity versus mass appeal. I think they did well with the balance - because there will ALWAYS be that immovable issue in filmmaking.

I absolutely adore LOTR. We need to keep an mind when comparing the trilogies that we have had over a decade to let LOTR "settle" in our minds, In time and fullness of the three TH films this will happen as well. And as you state, Ainur Olorin, unless there is some sort of sharp decline I feel the finished product will nestle quite nicely with LOTR.

I feel that I did not address the question fully of whether TH is a "career defining" trilogy or not. Have thought a lot about it since last night, and two points arise:
1. Can there BE another more career defining trilogy for SPJ and crew after LOTR? and....
2. Does he require further definition? So is it a relevant issue at all.

I'm a negotiating sort but I will not entertain the apology concept.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Elessar
Valinor


Mar 7 2013, 6:48pm

Post #156 of 240 (665 views)
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That's my hope as well [In reply to] Can't Post

As we've discussed before that hopefully because of what the characters know and just because of the importance The Balrog plays in the race of Durin as you said. So I'm crossing my fingeres Jackson will give us the nod the history, Dwarves, and The Balrog deserve.



AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Mar 7 2013, 7:09pm

Post #157 of 240 (662 views)
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Same. The Ancient Dwarven Kingdom of Moria, "Our Sacred halls . . ." as Thorin called them. . [In reply to] Can't Post

why did the loose that ancient Kingdom in the first place? Why would they ever abandon the most sacred, holy, fabled kindom in all of Dwarven History, the seat of Father Durin, and why could they not reclaim it?. . . Because of THAT GUY, The Balrog, servant and captian of Morgoth, slayer of Durin, Bane of Noldor, Sindar and Silvan Elves, and of Dwarves and of Men.

In Reply To
As we've discussed before that hopefully because of what the characters know and just because of the importance The Balrog plays in the race of Durin as you said. So I'm crossing my fingeres Jackson will give us the nod the history, Dwarves, and The Balrog deserve.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Brethil
Half-elven


Mar 7 2013, 7:12pm

Post #158 of 240 (647 views)
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**wiping tears away**** [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
might be just the angle that would really sell me on this whole Tauriel affair after all. Lol.




Quite a bit of helpless laughter there...............!Evil

Well then that suits me fine. Might level the playing field between you distant males and those of us in the poor hapless fangirl contingent.


Elessar
Valinor


Mar 7 2013, 7:21pm

Post #159 of 240 (643 views)
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Exactly! We have a bingo [In reply to] Can't Post

There is some real power that could impact an audience as much as anything we see if we could get just a sliver of that. We only get a short bit of The Balrog in The Fellowship of the Ring but its amazing. Now, give us why when we first get there everybody is dead and why the Dwarves cannot retake it until the world has changed. This is goosebump type awesome material.



Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Mar 7 2013, 7:23pm

Post #160 of 240 (645 views)
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Sinister71 : ei there! [In reply to] Can't Post

Long time no see. Smile Hows your health?

About Azog, someone, when told by me that he wasnt in the novel, replies thus : really?? But it was everything about him. ....His vendetta, the white council storyle, the lack of Bilbo post Trolls, the video game antics, overshadowed the actual storyline of the quest of the dwarves and the main charcater Bilbo. That is one of the films major flaws.

Jackson choosing story over spectacle? Wake me up when it happens. Wink


Tolktolk : i too hope my subsequent viewings of the film, improve my affection for it, but im not hopefull. There were only a few scene in lotr that i skipped...with TH, theres a lot more i shall just ignore...

That fan edit ideia is starting to seduce me...

jtarkey : No, dont me so mean, if everything was garbage we would never have Bag end and the party, i love those scenes!

If i may add :

Prologue: Thrors beard looked fake but grandiose and epic in its own right. My favourite part of the film, i think. Absolutely a cinema spectacle the likes of which i hadnt seen in a while.

Good Morning Conversation: This is awesome! On par with the quality expected from LOTR but with some added whimsy!

Agreed. Very much like the book. They nailed it and captured the tone and feel of the scene exactly as it should be.

Unexpected Party: This is also awesome! Why don't I like this movie very much? Ori burps...oh that's one of the reasons

Now, here i disagree. I loved ALL of it, including Ori's only good line in the whole film : BURP.

I felt the burp was appropriate as it showed the difference between these barbaric, boisterous, dwarves and the polite, softly mannered country gent that is Mr Baggins. His reaction is priceless.


East Gate Flashback: This is great...but...wait...ughhh...there's Azog. It's not that bad though, still a good film so far!

It looked a little too digital and fake and the line between green screen added background and the foreground action is just blatantly obvious . Check the screencaps on the bluray forums. Otherwise i liked it, though the ACTUAL canon is much more interesting and cinematic.


Radagast: Now it's all coming back to me...this is nonsense.

I enjoyed him as a different woodmanesque excentric but his insect and dung peppered face along with his pot induced groovy moments were too much for me.

I like the concept of bunny sleds but ....

Trolls: Mehhh, it was close to redeeming itself again

It had some greta moments, but the absence of Gandalfs magical ventriloquism, the disappointing and pointless action scene, the stupidity of dwarves surrendering to trolls, the snot, the boring dwarves theme reprise, the obviousness of the set they are in at times, the fcat that it doenst feel as clever and whimsy as the book moment...made a somewhat disappointing scene for me...


Everything after until Riddles in The Dark: Ok, now I remember why I wasn't impressed with this movie at all. Where's Bilbo? What was up with all that teribble CGI and corny chase scenes?

IDEM.

Jackson forgot what TH was about and who the main charcater was when we get to rivendell.

And what was that ludicrous pseudo elf science stuff Elrond talked about? And Balin trying to prevent Thorin from showing Elrond the map? That was his only bad line. Crazy He came across as very undiplomatic and stupid at that moment which is not fair since he is by far the best dwarf interpretation we have.

Then Riddles comes and I finally feel like I'm watching a film by the same person who directed LOTR...more nonsense...beautiful shots of the eagles...Smaugs eye is awesome!

Agreed though i enjoyed Bilbos Home speech...Vey Bagginsish of him.

And the eagles music is quite adorable ...well, at least the evrsion i heard. I know there are two.

When Smaug appears i felt : oh right Smaug, forgot about him...Azog, you devil...Wink

Perhaps the rivendell section might improve a little with the extended edition and Jackson will do some much needed trimmming with the goblin scenes ...

Have i mentioned i look forward to the Fan Edit? Angelic

Elenor : you too? Who appears when you are sleeping? I remember the shire and the dark moments...And on the subjetc of innovation, i am sad that the score still feels like its living of past glories at times. The shire and rivendell music tracks for instance ..i wish we had something a little different. And a proper Bilbo Theme. The rotk theme was so lovely and heart warming.


Arannir , i dont think elanor is agressive towards other posters...she just stronlgy dislikes what jackson has done with TH.

The same level of enthusiasm can be applied to those who scream Genius and Love it!! and He is soo Good ...

Those are not being accused of being so agressive are they? Tongue


AinurOlorin : indeed, gandalfs entrance was masterly done...if only, not amidst such a messy sequence! And right before the goblin king arrives video game boss style PAPAAM and delivers a slapstick line right at the moment of his death Crazy

And the neil flinn song is wonderfull, it is actually my favourite of all the score songs.

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


jtarkey
Rohan


Mar 7 2013, 8:24pm

Post #161 of 240 (615 views)
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Yes! Sorry to leave it out [In reply to] Can't Post

Gandalfs entrance was one of my favorite Gandalf moments in all of the films so far! But then the next scene happens...

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"


jtarkey
Rohan


Mar 7 2013, 8:27pm

Post #162 of 240 (628 views)
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About Ori... [In reply to] Can't Post

I have this ridiculous hatred for Ori which I don't even understand. He just rubs me the wrong way entirely. Everything from his design, to his lines, to the way he speaks, that slingshot...ughhh

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"


swordwhale
Tol Eressea


Mar 7 2013, 8:37pm

Post #163 of 240 (615 views)
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Indeed.... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Which, after making $1 billion, I don't think they will. Who cares about inflation and yada yada yada. Let's wait until all 3 films are out before calling The Hobbit a failure.

Smile


remember, this is only the first part of it....

remember... we were looking at a fresh new idea when LOTR happened, the impossible had happened, our Saga was on Film!

...now, we've been there, done that, perhaps we are a bit um, jaded? Expecting the wrong thing? expecting too much?

I personally love, it, was glad to return to Middle Earth, applaud the design, the whimsy, and yes, the bunny sled.

I think it's harder to make than LOTR was...stuff has to be added, it has to be fit into that wider world, and yet retain the voice of the book as much as possible.

Go outside and play...


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Mar 7 2013, 8:37pm

Post #164 of 240 (619 views)
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Haha [In reply to] Can't Post

i understand that. I xan see that. Certainly his chips line is more suitable for teletubies than TH.

PS : dont neglect your PM mail box. Wink

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


tolktolk
Lorien

Mar 7 2013, 8:52pm

Post #165 of 240 (616 views)
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Ori -ble! [In reply to] Can't Post

I feel sad for Ori because Adam himself seems lovely and I think he was supposed to be a loveable Private Pike type person (British people know who I mean) but somehow it just hasn;t worked, so far anyway.I think it's because he is supposed to be the baby of the group but looks middle aged!

On another note, does anyone know if any of these fabled fan edits exist and if so, has anyone seen one?


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Mar 7 2013, 8:59pm

Post #166 of 240 (603 views)
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Not only the brits [In reply to] Can't Post

Tongue

It hasnt worked. He looks wonderfull i think. But its his line delivery that i find over the top and ridiculous.

And hes not the youngest! Mad

I have read somewhere that A fan edit has been made already...but i havent seen it...the SW fan edit eventually showed up on youtube...

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


jtarkey
Rohan


Mar 7 2013, 9:27pm

Post #167 of 240 (604 views)
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Baby is right [In reply to] Can't Post

I wouldn't be surprised if he has a diaper on for the whole journey.

He just seems far less capable than even Bilbo, when Bilbo should seem like the biggest fish out of water. I mean, a slinshot? Really? Even Bilbo has a sword.

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Mar 7 2013, 11:19pm

Post #168 of 240 (578 views)
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It certainly could. [In reply to] Can't Post

Kili and Tauriel go Excalibur/Game of Thrones in their antics. That will be worth the extended edition price. I won't make the obvious joke about what is being extended and to whom. Wink

In Reply To

In Reply To
might be just the angle that would really sell me on this whole Tauriel affair after all. Lol.




Quite a bit of helpless laughter there...............!Evil

Well then that suits me fine. Might level the playing field between you distant males and those of us in the poor hapless fangirl contingent.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Mar 7 2013, 11:33pm

Post #169 of 240 (574 views)
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Absolutely. And, for those who complain about too explicit a reveal, it need not be. [In reply to] Can't Post

Strong hinting and allusion, with a small amount of pictoral aid (i.e. Saruman's book illustration or a glimpse in Galariel's mirror, or in the memory of Thorin or, or Dain and Dwalin (wouldn't it be great if those two DID go in to make certain that Azog was finished, and beheld the Terror and came out. . . and said nothing of it, being too petrified. "Name him not!") the thought's of The Council etc. I do think, if Gandalf is trying to sell The Council on war on Dol Guldur, based in part upon the alliances Sauron could bring to bear, the Demon should be mentioned since his presence is known to the filmic versions of The Wise. No force of evil could be a more horrifying prospect to The Elves in particular.

About the dwarves. . . I think it just ties together wonderfully and powerfully. The history of Durin's folk in The Third age is one of exile after exile, and it all began the slaying of Durin himself (reincarnate as he was) by The Balrog of Moria. Thorin says (rightly so) that that kingdom's halls are most sacred to the Dwarves. . . how dreadful and yet apt that they have been defiled and made into passages of dread by a truly profane being, one of the original forces of Evil to exist in the world. It is serious material, and as these are really 6 films and not two well seperated works, that really merits mention. Like it or no, this version of The Hobbit, though it certainly maintains much of the spirit and material of The Hobbit Proper, is being made as the opening acts of the larger Rings saga, and from that perspective, The Demon who slew Durin, sent Elves fleeing from Lothlorien by the terror of his presence (Princes of Dol Amroth, you indirectly owe him your existence . . . as does Faramir of Gondor, being of that line), and turned Khazad-Dum into the dark pit of Moria, definitely merits an allusion in that prelude.

In Reply To
There is some real power that could impact an audience as much as anything we see if we could get just a sliver of that. We only get a short bit of The Balrog in The Fellowship of the Ring but its amazing. Now, give us why when we first get there everybody is dead and why the Dwarves cannot retake it until the world has changed. This is goosebump type awesome material.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Mar 7 2013, 11:53pm

Post #170 of 240 (572 views)
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I felt the same. [In reply to] Can't Post

Cheers to you and Lustiano on the matter. As to the next. . . I understand. lolFrom a Silmarillion worthy moment to Indianna Jones in ten seconds flat. lol

In Reply To
Gandalfs entrance was one of my favorite Gandalf moments in all of the films so far! But then the next scene happens...


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Mar 8 2013, 12:02am

Post #171 of 240 (560 views)
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I think that despite your general good nature, [In reply to] Can't Post

somewhere deep inside there may be a little inner bully who wants to kick the ass of poor Ori, the nerd whose eldest brother clearly gives him the mother hen treatment. lol I liked him, though not half as much as Balin and Bofur and possibly Gloin. If it pleases you, he doesn't make it out of Moria. . . but that thought makes me rather sad.Unsure

In Reply To
I have this ridiculous hatred for Ori which I don't even understand. He just rubs me the wrong way entirely. Everything from his design, to his lines, to the way he speaks, that slingshot...ughhh


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Mar 8 2013, 12:04am

Post #172 of 240 (549 views)
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I think a poll would have to be done to see whether he worked or not. A lot of [In reply to] Can't Post

people liked him. I think kids identified with him well.

In Reply To
I feel sad for Ori because Adam himself seems lovely and I think he was supposed to be a loveable Private Pike type person (British people know who I mean) but somehow it just hasn;t worked, so far anyway.I think it's because he is supposed to be the baby of the group but looks middle aged!

On another note, does anyone know if any of these fabled fan edits exist and if so, has anyone seen one?


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Elessar
Valinor


Mar 8 2013, 1:47am

Post #173 of 240 (541 views)
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Spot on [In reply to] Can't Post

That to me sounds perfect. I think you could really make the impact showing the book page and then going into flashback. I think the audience would be pulled immediately into the importance of the event then and what is to come in The Lord of the Rings. IMO it just makes things even more powerful than they currently stand. I agree that by mentioning him even thenwould only add. I mean we already know part of retaking of The Lonely Mountain is because of a possible Smaug/Sauron and would make sense to go that route with Sauron/Balrog.

It does tie their history together. Between what we see in The Fellowship in Moria and what Thorin has said it makes it so much more powerful. It also helps represent the importance both have in the text Tolkien wrote. It does what I think has been done so well capture the heart of the text.



Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Mar 8 2013, 2:07am

Post #174 of 240 (561 views)
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I have my good days and bad days [In reply to] Can't Post

but hopefully I'll beat everything. I'll just say I'm healing and I have hair again Wink

Anyways I have been lurking just not posting, since I am in the minority of people who think the film was less than spectacular. Like I said I thought the first half, minus the crappy mostly made up prologue, was pretty darn good. Once they left Baggend I just think the whole film went down hill into B movie standards with modern technology. Peter Jackson was worried more about his big sweeping 3D camera moves than telling the story of Bilbo. More concerned with making up additions to directly link the LOTR trilogy instead of telling the Hobbit story and letting LOTR tell people what they need to know after the fact.

I see major plot holes in Jackson's troll sequence. Kili and Fili are on watch, yet some HUGE troll strolls in unheard, and unnoticed. All the while uprooting and knocking over trees to carrying off 2 ponies at a time as if the nags were going willingly and silently. Doesn't make sense to me. I still think the dwarves being wet and cold seeing a fire in the distance sending Bilbo to investigate would have worked just fine plus it wouldn't have opened up the holes Jackson opened.

Goblin Town to me was just some amusement park ride so they could show off the new 3D CG environment that they built. which IMO just looked OTT and fake. All the falling and nobody getting hurt just totally unbelievable to me. The Great Goblin was well acted by Humphrey's but he just looked like a character from a video game. Unlike Gollum who truly looked like part of the scene The Great Goblin just looked placed on top of the scene. Gandalf's entrance was pretty good and then right back to some sort of roller coaster ride to make you dizzy and seasick.

The ring I hated that they had to slow motion the ring, see it falling out of Gollum's clothing. All the while playing up the whole presence of the thing. Foreshadowing was definitely NOT needed since we get the whole story at the beginning of FOTR. Just another cheap tie in to the LOTR for no good reason other than they could.

Radagast while I love most of the character visually, other than the bird crap covering on his head and face, was just awful. He neither led the wargs away or did anything useful. Other than look like he was green screened in over a field crisscrossing in front or behind the dwarves leading the Orcs (who truly had no place in the Hobbit) only closer to them.

Azog I hated him right from the start. He looked like something from the God of War video game, superimposed over top of something that was really on the screen. He just felt like something they thought of at the last minute and said "hey, you know what would be cool?" and just did it without thinking it through. I found the altered Tolkien lore that they made up awful and just in poor taste compared to the original way the Azog/Thror - Dain/Azog storyline actually went. The flashback stuff could have been SOOOOOO much better had they stuck to what Tolkien wrote. Instead of opting to make up more and more material, CLAIMING to be using the appendices.

The White Council to me seemed like they forgot Saruman and Gandalf were supposed to be friends. That Gandalf felt comfortable enough in going to Saruman at the beginning of FOTR for help only to then be betrayed. In the Hobbit version it was almost like there was some power struggle between the two. Or that Gandalf was some subservient of Saruman's. Saruman basically daring Gandalf to go to DolGUldur to find proof about the necromancer. The only thing I did like about the white council scene was the fact of Saruman down playing the necromancer. Dismissing him and passing him off as "some human wizard" rather than pushing the whole Sauron issue. (Which personally I feel should just be ignored but feel it will come into play in a major way in the next 2 films) The acting overall just seemed subpar compared to LOTR (personally I see Smaug being a lesser bad guy in Jackson's films of the Hobbit than Sauron when its all said and done which is horrible IMO)

The stone giants Totally OTT and awful. seeing them in the background throwing boulders would have been really cool. Close enough to be a threat and cause the dwarves to seek shelter but not Hey I'm riding the giant at Six Flags close. But for the dwarves to be riding on them, and more falling and more danging off cliff faces. Just too much. It was a great visual, but the concept was poorly thought out IMO. To me it seemed the story came secondary to the flash bang effects and roller coaster thrill ride aspect.

And then the Gandalf telling Bilbo when to not take a life speech. seemed like a rehashed version of what Gandalf told Frodo in FOTR. It was something that wasn't needed and took away from Bilbo's character growth that we get to see from the book. Then there was the whole Bilibo killing a warg part, the saving Thorin part. Almost made me wonder if Jackson even read the Hobbit at all.

I loved the parts that stayed close to the book but the sections that deviated from it into made up fan fiction territory to me were awful. Those moments were far too many and far too close together to be ignored for me. Its almost as if Jackson set out to deliberately change the tale Tolkien wrote into something it isn't. I always found the Hobbit to be about Bilbo first and foremost, with Thorin and Gandalf to be supporting characters. I don't think they need to be as important as Bilbo or should be. Bilbo's adventure was not as grand as Frodo's and should never have been tried to be made as such. I don't care about just seeing more middle earth, I only ever really cared about seeing the story of the Hobbit brought to life.


(This post was edited by sinister71 on Mar 8 2013, 2:13am)


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Mar 8 2013, 2:18am

Post #175 of 240 (537 views)
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Completely and utterly [In reply to] Can't Post

There needs to be some allusion to Durin's Bane and the death of Balin (Ori and Oin would be a bonus). If there isn't, well I'll be annoyed.

I'm not at all concerned with an Azog-Balrog connection though....

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