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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
At your first viewing, what was your impression of Thorin's angry speech/hug/apology at the end?
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Riven Delve
Grey Havens


Mar 7 2013, 12:36pm

Post #1 of 105 (1282 views)
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At your first viewing, what was your impression of Thorin's angry speech/hug/apology at the end? Can't Post

Did you throw up a little in your mouth (I think Dwalin did), or wipe a tear from your eye? Did you have the moment spoiled by seeing a TV spot or hearing about it beforehand? Did your impression change as you saw the scene multiple times?

I really appreciate how that scene is set up. All the dwarves are on one end of the rock, with Gandalf to the side, and Bilbo is by himself on the other end—“no place amongst us” all over again. I also like Gandalf’s sidelong, wary look, as if he is ready to intervene if necessary.

I personally hadn’t had the moment spoiled for me so it was a complete surprise. In fact, knowing Thorin’s antics at the end of the book, I found his angry speech pretty much in character and I started getting nervous about what he was going to do. At the hug I had two simultaneous reactions: My mind said, You have got to be kidding me. This is ridiculous. Did Thorin sustain some brain damage? He would never hug someone in public, much less apologize. Why don’t we have a sunset instead of a sunrise here and be done with it?! My heart was saying, Awwww! They’re finally friends! Warm fuzzies, rainbows, and puppies! They lived happily ever after, and I can go home happy too! I might possibly have even been humming.

I’d love to hear your reactions to that scene.


"I left the night, with its remote and singing stars, and came in, to the glow of the fire, and the chair where he had been sitting, and the unstrung harp." --The Last Enchantment


Brethil
Half-elven


Mar 7 2013, 12:44pm

Post #2 of 105 (589 views)
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Have a look at this thread from a few weeks ago [In reply to] Can't Post

http://newboards.theonering.net/...;;page=unread#unread

What do you think? I think that scene plus Thorin facing Azog are a bit misunderstood.


Glorfindela
Valinor

Mar 7 2013, 12:50pm

Post #3 of 105 (548 views)
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I loved it [In reply to] Can't Post

The reaction from the Dwarves and Gandalf was also good to see.


elaen32
Gondor

Mar 7 2013, 12:52pm

Post #4 of 105 (567 views)
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You've opened a real can of worms here Riven Delve! [In reply to] Can't Post

Judging by some of the comments on this moment in previous threads, this could get lively! My initial reaction to it was similar to yours- I started thinking " oh, here goes Thorin off at the deep end again, how predictable" , which changed to "WHAT? He can't do that, that is just so not Thorin, he's not supposed to be nice to Bilbo until his deathbed scene!". However, the soppier softer part of me was saying "Awwww, sweet!!" Overall, the scene doesn't worry me too much one way or the other- yes, it was very cliched, but I can see why PJ & team did it to some extent. We know Thorin gets nastier once they get to Erebor and I think that will seem more tragic, knowing that he can be a good person. Having said that, given more time, the film makers should have been able to come up with something a bit less obvious

"Beneath the roof of sleeping leaves the dreams of trees unfold"


Riven Delve
Grey Havens


Mar 7 2013, 12:52pm

Post #5 of 105 (543 views)
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Missed that [In reply to] Can't Post

as I paged back through the old posts. (It didn't have the word "hug" in the title!) Sorry! I'll dive into that thread. Smile


"I left the night, with its remote and singing stars, and came in, to the glow of the fire, and the chair where he had been sitting, and the unstrung harp." --The Last Enchantment


Angharad73
Rohan


Mar 7 2013, 1:17pm

Post #6 of 105 (531 views)
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I liked the scene [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok, at first, when Thorin started with his speech, sounding all grumpy, I was thinking 'Oh show some gratitude! Bilbo just saved your life!" And then when they hugged, I was all 'Aww, so sweet." And then, I have to admit, I thought that it was a tad predictable, the whole grumpiness-turning-sweet. And then I was distracted by looking at Thorin again Blush

But I did think that the actors pulled it off well. I liked how Bilbo went from relief that Thorin was alive to looking awkward and upset at being grumped at, and then to surprised at Thorin admitting his mistake and even hugging him. As for Thorin, well, I like grumpy!Thorin and nice!Thorin, so that was ok with me.

Was it corny? Yes. Was it predictable? Yes. But I liked it.


arithmancer
Grey Havens


Mar 7 2013, 1:33pm

Post #7 of 105 (530 views)
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I liked it, a lot. [In reply to] Can't Post

It was originally, and remains, a favorite moment in the film for me. Top 5, certainly. Trying to think back to my first viewing of it...

1) I liked that Thorin, upon regaining consciousness, sought first of all to find out what had happened to Bilbo. (I'd consider this part of the hug scene).
2) The lines "What were you doing? You nearly got yourself killed!", also, to me, echoed Thorin's concern for Bilbo.
3) The scene therefore did not completely fake me out. I saw Bilbo's reaction to the apparent tirade (and it was a lovely bit of acting by Freeman) but at the same time my brain got hung up on Thorin's seemingly awkward phrasing as he launched into it: "Did I not say-"
4) So that when he said "I have never been so wrong in my life" I caught on immediately and was very moved.
5) And therefore was ready for/happy with, The Hug.

In retrospect, after seeing the movie again a couple more times, I still like it, and appreciate how it ties in with earlier moments I missed the first time through (like Thorin's overhearing of Bilbo and Bofur's conversation, and Thorin's reaction to Bilbo's speech on his rejoining the Dwarves).


ShireHorse
Rohan

Mar 7 2013, 1:35pm

Post #8 of 105 (546 views)
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I'm a very hard woman. [In reply to] Can't Post

I NEVER cry at the movies. But this scene brought a lump to my throat.

As soon as he started shouting, I knew which way the scene was going to go. After all, he knew that Bilbo had saved him and "The halfling?" were the first words that passed his lips when he regained consciousness. I got a sense of satisfaction when he hugged Bilbo.

I think, however cliched, it was all very well done, right from Bilbo's clumsy defence of Thorin, through the exquisitely beautiful eagles scene, to the scenic loveliness of the Carrock and, yes, (sorry, you chaps) to the beauty of Thorin's face as he lies with his eyes closed and Gandalf dashes forward showing concern for him. The positions of everyone on the rock is symbolic, as you say, and my emotions - even though cunningly manipulated by PJ - were building up to the elation of that hug. But, then, Thorin sees the Lonely Mountain over Bilbo's shoulder and, in a moment of oneupmanship, I felt the emotional screws were turned even more when we saw the look in Thorin's eyes. Good bit of acting there, RA.


Brethil
Half-elven


Mar 7 2013, 1:43pm

Post #9 of 105 (516 views)
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In addition Shirehorse [In reply to] Can't Post

I feel like RA did a splendidly subtle job of reacting to the thrush. He has a dawning sort of surprised hope in his eyes - like for the first time maybe success could be real. I don't think up until then Thorin has much hope. Pride, duty - but not hope.


Arannir
Valinor

Mar 7 2013, 1:54pm

Post #10 of 105 (541 views)
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Thorin hug = Sam's speech [In reply to] Can't Post

Thorin's speech and hugging of Bilbo is similar to me to Sam's "There is something good in this world, Mr Frodo".

As Mrs. Boyens said on the TTT EE documentary: Those things can be very cheesy, but they work when they are said and played with honesty and truth.

And I think RA did just that.


DanielLB
Immortal


Mar 7 2013, 2:04pm

Post #11 of 105 (504 views)
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I loved it [In reply to] Can't Post

And I hate the word cliché (which is what people commonly call it). I just think calling something cliché is a cliché in itself. Ugh.


andwise
Rivendell


Mar 7 2013, 2:58pm

Post #12 of 105 (486 views)
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my first impression... [In reply to] Can't Post

Was to have a bit of a wry smile to myself because its obviously a non book addition.however,that didn't spoil it and I thought it was played very well by both actors these are the type of moments that are needed for movies to tie it up fairly neatly before the next chapter and if the actors do their job there shouldn't be a problem.I've come to love it more with repeated viewings just I have with similar changes in the rings films.there's nothing like a man-hug to get all us chaps welling up Wink

Arrow....black arrow,I have saved you to the last.you have never failed me and always I have recovered you.I had you from my father and he from old.if ever you came from the forges of the true king under the mountain,go now and speed well


imin
Valinor


Mar 7 2013, 3:03pm

Post #13 of 105 (496 views)
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Strongly disliked it [In reply to] Can't Post

Probably one of the worst parts of the movie as i felt it was so forced - if it went on for less time it wouldn't have been bad but ugh was just terrible. Cliched nonsense! Didn't even fit with how i believe Thorin would have reacted in that scene.

However this has been discussed to death! I think it will end the same as always - people either loving it or hating it. For me i hope its cut from the EE it was terrible! I felt sorry for RA and MF having to act it out - i can just imagine them reading the script and being like ' really! we have to say this! Ugh fine!'


imin
Valinor


Mar 7 2013, 3:04pm

Post #14 of 105 (471 views)
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Still it is a cliche! no getting around that. [In reply to] Can't Post

Though one persons cliche is another persons endearing scene as it seems to have been for some people in this thread.


Valandil ed Imladris
Lorien


Mar 7 2013, 3:21pm

Post #15 of 105 (470 views)
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I didn't like the music [In reply to] Can't Post

because it was just recycled Gondor United theme from LOTR. Crazy


xxxyyy
Rohan

Mar 7 2013, 3:23pm

Post #16 of 105 (503 views)
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Good God... No! Just no! [In reply to] Can't Post

Sam's speech was a whole other world, it has a meaning, it has a purpose, it happens just after Frodo tried to kill him, it opens up Faramir's mind, it even touched Gollum's heart I think, just a bit. When Sam is talking, he is facing towards no one, as meaning that it is a universal speech, a speech not just for Frodo or whoever you want, but for everybody.
Having said that, I have to admit it has its tiny little percentage of cheesiness, but in a good way., considering the situation hou Heroes are in
But Thorin speech, good Lord, I saw the end coming as soon as he started shouting at Bilbo... I saw a bit meteor of cheese in the sky coming down and, how do I say? splashing down? on our "heroes" as they hug, covering them with molten cheesiness.
I absolutely hate that scene.
Let's just hope they have different versions of that scene, or just reshoot it this winter, and replace it with something more elegant.

http://energyfromthorium.com/


DiveTwin
Rohan


Mar 7 2013, 3:27pm

Post #17 of 105 (475 views)
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Hate To Say It But I Agree [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Probably one of the worst parts of the movie as i felt it was so forced - if it went on for less time it wouldn't have been bad but ugh was just terrible. Cliched nonsense! Didn't even fit with how i believe Thorin would have reacted in that scene.

However this has been discussed to death! I think it will end the same as always - people either loving it or hating it. For me i hope its cut from the EE it was terrible! I felt sorry for RA and MF having to act it out - i can just imagine them reading the script and being like ' really! we have to say this! Ugh fine!'





I was mostly disappointed by the reaction of the other dwarves. I felt wry smiles or nodding heads would be the appropriate reaction. Somehow hugs and patting yourselves on the back made it feel like the goal of the trip was to get Thorin to like Bilbo. As if "Hey! The mission is accomplished! Yippee!" I guess I could also see the set up for what Thorin was going to do so it came across to me as forced also. What can I say? That was my reaction.

"Do not come between the Nazgul and his prey"


Arannir
Valinor

Mar 7 2013, 3:37pm

Post #18 of 105 (464 views)
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Just shows... [In reply to] Can't Post

... how different perceptions can be :)

However, I still wished for another music to score that hug. Whatever the motives for it are... this is simply too much coronation music.


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Mar 7 2013, 3:40pm

Post #19 of 105 (445 views)
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I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

I loved the scene. I didn't like the re-used music and wish Shore had written something more original.

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


imin
Valinor


Mar 7 2013, 3:44pm

Post #20 of 105 (436 views)
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What was Shore's original music for it? // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Mar 7 2013, 3:55pm

Post #21 of 105 (432 views)
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I meant [In reply to] Can't Post

I wish he had written something original. Rather than using a re-hashed Gondor theme.

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


imin
Valinor


Mar 7 2013, 4:00pm

Post #22 of 105 (433 views)
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Oh sorry i misunderstood you [In reply to] Can't Post

I had always thought he had something for it but then the editing/sound department changed it.


Old Toby
Gondor


Mar 7 2013, 4:04pm

Post #23 of 105 (432 views)
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I loved it! [In reply to] Can't Post

And since I am evidently unfamiliar with it being a cliche, I didn't expect it, and never saw it as such. So I guess I'm lucky that way. I thought the acting was wonderful: Thorin's expressed anger, Bilbo's uncomfortable expression, Kili's expression as he sees his uncle about to berate Bilbo once again. Then the hug. I thought it was a good way to show that Thorin wasn't above admitting his mistakes in front of his men and Gandalf, and I loved Bilbo's surprised and happy expression. And that all led up to Bilbo's, "I would have doubted me too," speech which I loved.

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)


Elessar
Valinor


Mar 7 2013, 4:05pm

Post #24 of 105 (428 views)
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Loved it as well. [In reply to] Can't Post

I loved it as well. It really helped finish making Thorin look a little softer and not like such a jerk as he comes across in the book.



Riven Delve
Grey Havens


Mar 7 2013, 4:09pm

Post #25 of 105 (452 views)
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Dwalin [In reply to] Can't Post

I think he feels the same way about the hug as you do!

During Bilbo's "I would have doubted me too" speech, you can see him leaning on his weapon, looking down and not watching, as if to say, "Can we get this over with, please?" Then he starts looking around, I suppose at the eagles that are still circling. I imagine him thinking, Not listening, not listening, can't hear you...

And nobody dares to hug him in celebration!


"I left the night, with its remote and singing stars, and came in, to the glow of the fire, and the chair where he had been sitting, and the unstrung harp." --The Last Enchantment

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