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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Has Mr. Jackson shown any signs of contrition?
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Mar 7 2013, 12:27am

Post #101 of 240 (806 views)
PJ committed [In reply to] Can't Post

a crime against Tolkien, and that IS a sin. actually.


Mar 7 2013, 12:31am

Post #102 of 240 (764 views)
I think LOTR [In reply to] Can't Post

will stand the test of time better than AUJ

(This post was edited by Elenorflower on Mar 7 2013, 12:37am)


Mar 7 2013, 12:34am

Post #103 of 240 (755 views)
The world has changed [In reply to] Can't Post

Since 2003 or, rather the speed and bandwith of the internet has.

Many people never pay to go to the cinema nor do they pay for their dvds/blu-rays, they simply download and stream to their Tvs/play straight from a hard disk in 2013 and that's happening on a global scale.

Ticket prices after inflation are meaningless if one is considering the entire history of cinema and using it to judge the biggest films of all time, since the emergence of home video in the 1980s piracy has impacted the world of film in a way it never could for Gone with the Wind or the original 1977 Star Wars.

So yes inflation, piracy, the internet, and recessions are all factors that have to be taken into account, I just wonder if some academic economist has worked out a formula that takes all those things into account (rather them than meLaugh).

I think it's remarkable that any film can make a billion dollars at the box office when, most of the biggest markets for english language films could wait a week and download and watch for free, on a large flat screen with a basic surround sound system.

That's the big difference between 2003 and ROTK and 2012 and AUJ, the ability to download withou spending a dime.


Mar 7 2013, 12:36am

Post #104 of 240 (758 views)
I totally disagree [In reply to] Can't Post

LOTR was a work of genius. AUJ is a flaccid video game.

Tol Eressea

Mar 7 2013, 1:09am

Post #105 of 240 (731 views)
Half is quite good [In reply to] Can't Post

other half is as you say a flacid video game...with a few good moments peppered here and there...

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!

Grey Havens

Mar 7 2013, 1:16am

Post #106 of 240 (732 views)
Close [In reply to] Can't Post

In Reply To
...You dont take the Mona Lisa and paint a moustache on because you think she needs 'modernizing'.

Even modern women don't want a moustache. It would instead be multiple self-mutilating piercings and she would be painted more like The Scream to externalize her repressed rage at the male machine. That would be modern. But you were close.

Tol Eressea

Mar 7 2013, 1:47am

Post #107 of 240 (728 views)
Bilbo [In reply to] Can't Post

How true. And yes, let's keep the flesh comments to a minimum. I have things to get done around the house and they might not get done if we start going off track. Can't have that.

Bilbo. Back to Bilbo. Bilbo was already very well developed in the story itself. We see the story through Bilbo's eyes (he is the author after all) and we know who he is. But honestly, the book Thorin needed to be more developed for the screen for exactly the reason you indicate. The payoff will be in films 2 and 3 and especially in film 3. We have to believe in the character and emotionally connect with him. We have to believe in the friendship developed between the two as the story goes.

This was the right thing to do and yes, I would pay money to sit and watch Ian McKellan read the back of a cereal box. But I don't think it would be a large commercial success because it would be you, me and a few others in the audience.

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


Mar 7 2013, 1:51am

Post #108 of 240 (713 views)
Oh you just made me hoot out loud! [In reply to] Can't Post

In Reply To

This was the right thing to do and yes, I would pay money to sit and watch Ian McKellan read the back of a cereal box. But I don't think it would be a large commercial success because it would be you, me and a few others in the audience.

So would I!!!!! especially in the grey robes!


Mar 7 2013, 2:37am

Post #109 of 240 (744 views)
Wow [In reply to] Can't Post

The pieces are starting to come together.
I understand now

Tol Eressea

Mar 7 2013, 2:54am

Post #110 of 240 (707 views)
I have to say I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought the Baggend part was well done and kept the feel of the book overall. Where the film went downhill for me was all the OTT video game style nonsense ( I hated Azog Mad and the whole story line around him) and made up story lines that really IMO had nothing to do with the Hobbit. I realize somethings need to be changed to work on film but the changes that we got were not those type of changes. They were Peter Jackson choosing spectacle over story. Which to me was a sad thing. I think if the they had stuck to what Tolkien gave them instead of wanting to make up as much as they could it would have worked SO much better.

Old Toby
Grey Havens

Mar 7 2013, 5:26am

Post #111 of 240 (709 views)
Second that [In reply to] Can't Post

so....double Wow.

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)


Mar 7 2013, 5:55am

Post #112 of 240 (671 views)
Yep, exactly right IMO [In reply to] Can't Post

I almost wish the whole thing was garbage so I wouldn't have such mixed feelings about it. The same phenomena occurs each time I watch the film, and this is my line of thinking:

Prologue: This is different than what I imagined, but wow it's actually pretty great...lots of CGI though. Is Thrors beard real?
Good Morning Conversation: This is awesome! On par with the quality expected from LOTR but with some added whimsy!
Unexpected Party: This is also awesome! Why don't I like this movie very much? Ori burps...oh that's one of the reasons
East Gate Flashback: This is great...but...wait...ughhh...there's Azog. It's not that bad though, still a good film so far!
Radagast: Now it's all coming back to me...this is nonsense.
Trolls: Mehhh, it was close to redeeming itself again
Everything after until Riddles in The Dark: Ok, now I remember why I wasn't impressed with this movie at all. Where's Bilbo? What was up with all that teribble CGI and corny chase scenes?

Then Riddles comes and I finally feel like I'm watching a film by the same person who directed LOTR...more nonsense...beautiful shots of the eagles...Smaugs eye is awesome!

I've come to the conclusion that I keep watching the film because Riddles, and the very last shot of the film leaves a good taste in my mouth. I find myself pretty much pushing the middle of the film out of my memory, involuntarily I might add simply because my brain likes to remember the good things.

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"


Mar 7 2013, 7:26am

Post #113 of 240 (678 views)
Wow... this thread got quite extreme in some aspects. [In reply to] Can't Post


Tol Eressea

Mar 7 2013, 7:28am

Post #114 of 240 (653 views)
Exactly this. // [In reply to] Can't Post


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort

Tol Eressea

Mar 7 2013, 7:31am

Post #115 of 240 (675 views)
I think we all agree on the parts that veer between meh! and oh so wrong... [In reply to] Can't Post

...and I know the LotR had its dire moments, too...I just don't remember there being so many (or if there were, it was as many as AUJ but spread over 3 films, not all in the first!)

"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort


Mar 7 2013, 8:30am

Post #116 of 240 (647 views)
Great summation [In reply to] Can't Post

You have summed up exactly how I felt watching the film, and why I liked it better second time around - I knew how long all the boring scene 88 stuff and the Azog v Thorin nonsense would last and when to look out for the good parts, especially Riddles in the Dark which really does seem to be part of a different, more mature film. I also loved the Eagles and the final short of Smaug, even with the anger hug in between ..!

And I also hated Ori's burp!

I am looking forward to seeing The Hobbit on DVD, because I can fast forward and just enjoy the highlights.

Tol Eressea

Mar 7 2013, 8:33am

Post #117 of 240 (645 views)
ROFL! [In reply to] Can't Post

You two can, I think, turn *any* thread into a discussion of the *ahem* "finer" points of the movie. Well done! Wink

Just had to stick my hand up to say I'd be with you in that audience listening to Sir Ian read a cereal box. I do that myself in the mornings when I'm bored eating breakfast, and it would be far more interesting listening to Sir Ian read it.

Forum Admin / Moderator

Mar 7 2013, 9:02am

Post #118 of 240 (659 views)
Well, we've already heard him read how to change a flat tire... [In reply to] Can't Post

For any who haven't, click here.

And I'm sure cereal boxes would be just as good.Cool



Mar 7 2013, 9:07am

Post #119 of 240 (658 views)
Does that mean ... [In reply to] Can't Post

anyone that enjoys the film is going to hell? Blimey, I better get repenting. Laugh


Mar 7 2013, 9:12am

Post #120 of 240 (645 views)
PJ's not the messiah... [In reply to] Can't Post

he's just a very naughty boy! WinkLaugh

*sorry couldn't resist*


Bag ENZ Home of the Hobbit *with thanks to cameragod ;D*

One by one they faded, and fell into shadow...

One book to rule them all
One book to find them
One book to bring them all
And in TORn bind them
In the land of TORnadoes...where the brilliant play


Mar 7 2013, 10:07am

Post #121 of 240 (632 views)
The worst? [In reply to] Can't Post

While I agree that PJ was quite aware of what the reception by critics might be (at least with HFR and the less dramatical story). But I think it could have been a lot worse. A very clear majority still liked it.


Mar 7 2013, 10:16am

Post #122 of 240 (650 views)
I do not see much evidence for this... [In reply to] Can't Post

... but anyway - what I would like to ask you, do YOU think he should show signs of contrition? I mean, I know by now that you obviously cannot really stand the movie, but I would be interested in whether you would say that this adaptation is just not your cup of tea or if you think that it is so bad that PJ should apologize? Because one thing remains, of course, and that is that the overall verdict of the audience is positive... plus we can assume that the studio's expectations have been met. So many might say - mission of the director accomplished (whether one dislikes or likes the final outcome is on a different page, of course).


Mar 7 2013, 10:56am

Post #123 of 240 (637 views)
That is just your opinion [In reply to] Can't Post

I completely disagree as does everyone I've spoken to about it (old and young). Yes, LOTR was a work of genius, but ROTK and TTT in particular contained many flaws. In my opinion AUJ IS a work of genius.

I've never seen a video game, so cannot make comparisons between the ME films and such games.

You are quite entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine. It is all a matter of taste.

In Reply To
LOTR was a work of genius. AUJ is a flaccid video game.


Mar 7 2013, 12:18pm

Post #124 of 240 (627 views)
Tee Hee! [In reply to] Can't Post

Made me laugh anyway!! "Always look on the bright side of life" *whistles*

"Beneath the roof of sleeping leaves the dreams of trees unfold"


Mar 7 2013, 12:43pm

Post #125 of 240 (617 views)
I feel the same way about Riddles [In reply to] Can't Post

and thats why AUJ could have been as amazing as FOTR. Bits of it feel like PJ of yore.
Like flashes from Smaug's eye, you see that hidden fire, you desperately want to gaze into its depths even if it burns your mind to behold it. (LOTR burnt itself on my imagination, even when I sleep I see it)
Instead I got a Urine Taking of epic proportions

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