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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Angmar's blade
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Glorfindela
Valinor

Mar 5 2013, 6:19pm

Post #1 of 31 (1793 views)
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Angmar's blade Can't Post

Do you think we will get an explanation of the Morgul blade in the EE or the next film/s? I am curious about how it was removed from the Witch-king's grave, and would be interested to know if we will see the Witch-king again.

As a side note, and at the risk of sounding boring, I cannot believe how much I love this film! I went to see it again today, having seen it already between 12 and 15 times, and my interested has not flagged (which it did at times when seeing TTT and ROTK). Martin Freeman, Richard Armitage and Sir Ian have done such brilliant jobs in depicting their characters – each one is distinct and different from the others, and they complement each other so well. (The secondary characters are also terrific.)


Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Gondor


Mar 5 2013, 6:41pm

Post #2 of 31 (1429 views)
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There will be a scene with the High Fells and the Nazgűl tombs [In reply to] Can't Post

But nobody knows if it's in the EE or as a flashback in DOS or TABA.

But you've seen clips of Gandalf discovering the tombs of the Nazgűl:

Nazgűl tomb #1

Nazgűl tomb #2

Nazgűl tomb #3

In the first The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey: The Chronicles book it says that Gandalf visits the tombs after leaving Rivendell and before saving the day in Goblin Town. I think parts of that scene were already shown as a preview to AUJ and it was said that Radagast is in that scene too. But I haven't seen it yet.


"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."


Glorfindela
Valinor

Mar 5 2013, 6:45pm

Post #3 of 31 (1323 views)
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Ah, I see [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you. I didn't know that the extra footage showed Gandalf at the graves. I am very curious about that particular part of the film (and also about whether we will see Angmar in the form of the Wi-ki again).


Ardamírë
Valinor


Mar 5 2013, 7:35pm

Post #4 of 31 (1300 views)
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I expect it in the EE [In reply to] Can't Post

Since the book already has told us where the scene belongs, I can't imagine it not making it into the EE.

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


Elutherian
Rohan


Mar 5 2013, 7:41pm

Post #5 of 31 (1293 views)
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I'm almost positive... [In reply to] Can't Post

...That it will be in The Desolation of Smaug.

The Grey Pilgrim, they once called me. Three hundred lives of men I walked this earth, and now I have no time...


Shagrat
Gondor

Mar 5 2013, 8:02pm

Post #6 of 31 (1268 views)
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Me as well... [In reply to] Can't Post

Why else would the footage have appeared in a trailer which appeared just three months before the film came out, and once the trilogy had been confirmed? We don't see any scenes from after the Carrock in this trailer, for example. This suggests to me that Gandalf in the High Fells was meant to be part of AUJ at a very late stage, and was probably a late cut. The fact that much of the bonus track 'Edge of the Wild' on the deluxe soundtrack seems intended to score this scene provides further evidence that it was part of the near final version of the film (like the Bilbo in Rivendell segment discussed in the other thread).

I can't help but think that had the sequence been intended for the DoS it would have been shifted much earlier than this, rather like Gandalf fighting Thrain in Dol Guldur. I'd be surprised if they tried to squeeze Gandalf's visit to the High Fells, his encounter with Thrain in Dol Guldur, and then the probable White Council assault on Dol Guldur in one film. I think the only realistic place to put the High Fells is as part of a prologue, setting it up as a flashback. But I anticipate we'll get instead something about Thrain, and Gandalf's initial meeting with him (probably in Moria) where he gets the map and key.


arithmancer
Grey Havens


Mar 5 2013, 8:04pm

Post #7 of 31 (1261 views)
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I agree. [In reply to] Can't Post

If they intended to put it in the EE for AUJ, I think they would have edited Galadriel's comment about the riddle of the blade out of the theatrical version as well. (And put it back in the EE).


DanielLB
Immortal


Mar 5 2013, 8:08pm

Post #8 of 31 (1278 views)
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Shots in the many of the LOTR trailers never ended up in the films [In reply to] Can't Post

Or in the films they were being advertised in!


Quote
Why else would the footage have appeared in a trailer which appeared just three months before the film came out, and once the trilogy had been confirmed?



Ardamírë
Valinor


Mar 5 2013, 8:11pm

Post #9 of 31 (1252 views)
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Good point [In reply to] Can't Post

Good point about the trailer being made after the trilogy announcement. I think you're right that it was probably a very late cut.

I think one of the reasons I was so disappointed it was cut is because it was one of the first scenes that we heard about - all the way back like a year ago at Cinema Con. I've been aching to see it ever since.

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


Ardamírë
Valinor


Mar 5 2013, 8:12pm

Post #10 of 31 (1264 views)
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Don't bring logic into this, Daniel [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink

But I actually agree with Shagrat on this one. I just really think it was a late cut.

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).

(This post was edited by Ardamírë on Mar 5 2013, 8:13pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Mar 5 2013, 8:28pm

Post #11 of 31 (1242 views)
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I agree really ;-) [In reply to] Can't Post

The two (full) trailers we got contained everything from the film. The scenes that didn't appear in the film have already been confirmed to be in the EE. The Nazgul tombs is the only one that hasn't (yet).

Tongue


Ardamírë
Valinor


Mar 5 2013, 8:34pm

Post #12 of 31 (1249 views)
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Is Bilbo with Narsil confirmed? [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't remember seeing that confirmed anywhere, but I am so glad if it is! I keep feeling like all the scenes I was looking forward to were cut (or pushed to film 2).

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


DanielLB
Immortal


Mar 5 2013, 8:40pm

Post #13 of 31 (1244 views)
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Whoops. There I go again. [In reply to] Can't Post

Second time today I said something was confirmed. Blush

I don't think it is ... sorry for getting your hopes up. But the trailer shots look like finished scenes. I'm almost certain they will be in the EE.


Ardamírë
Valinor


Mar 5 2013, 8:45pm

Post #14 of 31 (1229 views)
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Off your rocker? [In reply to] Can't Post

Well now that you've completely dashed all my hopes and have thoroughly ruined my whole life, I guess I'll go crawl under a rock until I hear confirmation Tongue

But seriously, I agree. I'm certain it will be in the EE, especially after the way that Philippa talked about it.

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


Shagrat
Gondor

Mar 5 2013, 8:49pm

Post #15 of 31 (1229 views)
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With regard to this.... [In reply to] Can't Post

We should remember from the LOTR films that lines in the theatrical editions set up things that we only actually see in the EE. The most obvious example of course is the decision to leave the Witchking's "I will break him" line in the TC, which is bizarre given that we don't actually see the Witchking and Gandalf confrontation in this version.

I agree about stuff being in the final trailers which we either didn't see or didn't see until the EE, but its very rare we saw something that was shifted to another film. I suppose Arwen and Elrond's 'You have the gift of foresight...' exchange comes to mind.


arithmancer
Grey Havens


Mar 5 2013, 9:02pm

Post #16 of 31 (1229 views)
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Yeah but...*LOTR Spoilers* [In reply to] Can't Post

To me your example "feels" different. For one thing, it is resolved by the theatrical version. Clearly, the Lord of the Nazgul was simply wrong when he said that. Wink He was killed in the battle by Eowyn. So it does not require a confrontation with Gandalf in the same way that (it seems to me) Galadriel's comment requires an explanation of what is up with the Morgul Blade.

Also, this appearance of Galadriel and the WC is setting up what we are being led to believe is going to be a major plot thread for the second (and possibly also third) film, the WC dealing with the Necromancer. To have a major development of that plot thread take place in the EE only seems wrong.


Ardamírë
Valinor


Mar 5 2013, 9:08pm

Post #17 of 31 (1225 views)
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Arwen's the big one [In reply to] Can't Post

She had lots of stuff in TTT trailers that ended up being pushed to ROTK. The original teaser at the end of Fellowship's had part of her scene when she goes to see Narsil, and even some stuff of her dying that didn't even end up in ROTK!

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


Shagrat
Gondor

Mar 5 2013, 9:28pm

Post #18 of 31 (1208 views)
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Is it resolved? [In reply to] Can't Post

They'd be better just saving it entirely for the EE. The Witchking saying that hints at a showdown between the pair which we never see in that version. I don't think him simply meeting his end resolves that.

I don't think PJ is averse to moving major plot strands to the EE, as the fate of Saruman and Grima shows. Despite what PJ argued, no one could be satisfied that the Saruman plot strand had been tied up convincingly. The cut was clearly done for time reasons rather than narrative ones.


DanielLB
Immortal


Mar 5 2013, 9:36pm

Post #19 of 31 (1206 views)
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I think that's what I was thinking of [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
But seriously, I agree. I'm certain it will be in the EE, especially after the way that Philippa talked about it.


I thought it had been confirmed by either PJ or Boyens. Seems I was mis-remembering the information. I did quick search and couldn't find anything, so it must be that.

I'll send a postcard to you when it's safe to leave your rock. Tongue


Ardamírë
Valinor


Mar 5 2013, 9:52pm

Post #20 of 31 (1202 views)
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How generous! [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll get you the mailing address for my rock as soon as possible Tongue

But really, I pretty much take that as confirmation from Philippa. I can't imagine it being left out if it's as wonderful a scene as she says it is.

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


Glorfindela
Valinor

Mar 5 2013, 10:28pm

Post #21 of 31 (1184 views)
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I hope [In reply to] Can't Post

…that the explanation for the Morgul blade will be in the EE. I don't really want pleasant little interludes, e.g. involving the Shire, but something meaty/dangerous that advances the story – and more of Thorin, please. Tongue


(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Mar 5 2013, 10:28pm)


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Mar 5 2013, 10:39pm

Post #22 of 31 (1181 views)
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I hope NOT! Not unless an epic Gandalf vs. Nazgul Lords scene is there and only there [In reply to] Can't Post

Otherwise, let this piece of non cannon stay in EE, and let his visits to Dol Guldur retain spotlighting in Desolation of Smaug.

In Reply To
...That it will be in The Desolation of Smaug.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Ardamírë
Valinor


Mar 5 2013, 10:50pm

Post #23 of 31 (1168 views)
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Give me Shire or give me Death! [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok maybe not quite so extreme, but I really just want those Shire scenes. I think my preferences go Narsil scene ---> Shire scenes ---> Tomb scenes ---> everything else.

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


Glorfindela
Valinor

Mar 5 2013, 10:59pm

Post #24 of 31 (1166 views)
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I'll vote for [In reply to] Can't Post

the tombs and any other 'sinister/dangerous' scenes – I don't care about the others all that much, although the Narsil scene might be OK. I suppose I don't want all the EE extra material to be just lighthearted fluff.


Ardamírë
Valinor


Mar 5 2013, 11:05pm

Post #25 of 31 (1167 views)
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We're so different :) [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd rather have character scenes no matter where or what they are rather than sinister and dangerous ones just for the sake of it. I feel like we had enough of that already.

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).

(This post was edited by Ardamírë on Mar 5 2013, 11:12pm)

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