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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
TABA: Multiple ending criticism?
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DolGuldur
Registered User

Mar 3 2013, 7:09pm

Post #1 of 47 (1533 views)
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TABA: Multiple ending criticism? Can't Post

Having just watched RotK again, I reflected on the (in my opinion, wholly unfair) criticisms regarding the multiple endings. I think this issue will be equally present in the final film in The Hobbit trilogy as there are already several distinct story threads to resolve. At present I think it is highly likely we will see the following endings:

- The restoration of The Kingdom under the Mountain and possible coronation of Dáin (will require a compression of timeline but will neatly wrap up this aspect of the story)

- Some sort of conclusion relating to the White Council and the Necromancer. I can't help but feel there will be some overt reference to Sauron taking up residence in Mordor.

- Some further additional scenes to make the link to the LotR films more concrete. I think this is almost certain given the effort already taken to foreshadow and reference future events. I can imagine a specific scene involving The One Ring. Another Gollum scene perhaps? A later meeting between Gandalf and Aragorn?

- Bilbo's return to The Shire with the treasure referred to at the start of AUJ. Scenes similar to those with Frodo at the end of RotK showing how Bilbo has been changed by his experiences.

- Bookend scenes with Bilbo and Frodo.

Although some of these may be wishful thinking, I think that there will be some version of most of these scenes to end this particular trilogy. And, therefore, a repeat of the critical backlash that was targeted toward RotK.

Thoughts?


(This post was edited by DolGuldur on Mar 3 2013, 7:11pm)


Owain
Tol Eressea


Mar 3 2013, 7:31pm

Post #2 of 47 (859 views)
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Welcome to tORN, DolGoldur!! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Mar 3 2013, 7:32pm

Post #3 of 47 (886 views)
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l love how RotK ends in stages, [In reply to] Can't Post

and the idea of "too many endings" never entered into my mind until i read it somewhere. The thought of ending on some sort of triumphant note would have been totally antithetical to what the book was about, and would have been all wrong for the movie. It really was the only way for them to go. And if this sort of thing lends itself to how PJ and Co. are making TaBA, i think they'll do what needs to be done, no matter what the critics might say, or the risk of any potential backlash. I hope so anyway.


DanielLB
Immortal


Mar 3 2013, 7:34pm

Post #4 of 47 (899 views)
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Not necessarily ... [In reply to] Can't Post

All of that could be summed up in a 1 minute epilogue by Bilbo as we zoom over a map of Middle-earth. We don't need to see it, for it to be told.

Likewise, it could all be summed up in the scene where Gandalf and Balin turn up.


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Mar 3 2013, 8:12pm

Post #5 of 47 (892 views)
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Parallels between the trilogies... The two could be very similar... [In reply to] Can't Post

There are, obviously, many parallels between FotR and AUJ in terms of event chronology.

(Prologue to Hobbiton to trolls to a chase-scene with an unexpectedly introduced character (Radagast/Arwen) to Rivendell with a council to an epic walking montage to monster(s) to caves, then escaping with one left behind because he fell, then a big battle and a set-up for the sequel)

But I think this could extend beyond AUJ and FotR.

In TTT the character's paths split and we're introduced to new characters (Eomer/Theoden and Wormtongue) before the familiar characters eventually meet them.

In DoS the characters will split off, and we'll probably be introduced to Bard, the Master and Alfrid before the familiar characters eventually meet them. This will give us 3 or 4 different story lines interweaving, just like TTT. This would mean that Osgiliath becomes Dol Guldur (or a fight on the way to Dol Guldur?) and Helm's Deep becomes Smaug, so I assume Smaug's defeat is right at the end of the film.

Similar to RotK, TABA will be a big build-up to war and the end will likely be very similar in terms of "multiple endings" if they want to include all the events. So don't be surprised if you get a sense of déjá vu. Wink



Interestingly, the parallels worked even better before the 3-film split, where Lothlorien becomes Mirkwood, Galadriel becomes the Elven King and Anduin's boat-ride becomes the barrel escape.


(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Mar 3 2013, 8:17pm)


Elessar
Valinor


Mar 3 2013, 9:57pm

Post #6 of 47 (768 views)
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I wouldn't mind them doing something similar [In reply to] Can't Post

Just because I'd like to see things tied up in a nice bow and ready to step right into The Lord of the Rings.



Kimtc
Rohan


Mar 3 2013, 10:04pm

Post #7 of 47 (759 views)
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This is what I envisioned, too. [In reply to] Can't Post

The book ends like this, with Balin and Gandalf coming over to "catch up" with Bilbo. They could even bring along another dwarf (Ori?). I saw it as a narrative summary from the characters with some accompanying visuals, a la Gandalf's description in ROTK of the Witch King, the mercenaries, and the men of the South. Goes faster.


In Reply To
All of that could be summed up in a 1 minute epilogue by Bilbo as we zoom over a map of Middle-earth. We don't need to see it, for it to be told.

Likewise, it could all be summed up in the scene where Gandalf and Balin turn up.



Joe20
Lorien


Mar 4 2013, 12:01am

Post #8 of 47 (733 views)
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For those who have seen the Dark Knight Rises... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think that would be a great way to finish it. We were able to learn a heap of information from that and it was only a few minutes long.


Ardamírë
Valinor


Mar 4 2013, 12:57am

Post #9 of 47 (702 views)
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The endings were necessary [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't care what any of the critics or general population says, those multiple endings were absolutely necessary for LOTR. It wasn't just the ending to one movie, it was the end of an epic trilogy. Plus the book had even more.

But I don't think that TABA will need so many. First of all, it's not the epic story that LOTR. And I think that the White Council storyline will either be resolved by the end of Act II, or it will be tied into the BoFA and resolved when that resolves. I don't think there will be much over "linking" like there was with Star Wars 3. I think that worked brilliantly for Star Wars, but those were specifically designed as prequels to the originals. The Hobbit is completely different. It is telling it's own completely separate story. At least, that's what I'm really hoping for.

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


glor
Rohan

Mar 4 2013, 2:33am

Post #10 of 47 (662 views)
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Linking... [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, Tolkien managed that himself, The Hobbit doesn't need too much interference in the linking department;

This how Bilbo obtained The One Ring

This is Balin, whose tomb you see in FOTR

This is Ori, the one whose book is read by Gandalf in FOTR and whose skull/skeleton is unceremonously knocked into a well.

This is Thranduil, Legolas' father

This is Gloin, Gimli's father

This is Gollum, he's going to be an important character in LOTR

Etc, etc..

Agree about the multiple endings to ROTK BTW


BalrogTrainer
Rivendell

Mar 4 2013, 2:45am

Post #11 of 47 (682 views)
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As Philippa Boyens said... [In reply to] Can't Post

... in one of her interviews, whereas LOTR had multiple endings, "The Hobbit" would have multiple beginnings... and I think we kind of saw that in "Journey."


Ardamírë
Valinor


Mar 4 2013, 2:53am

Post #12 of 47 (641 views)
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Abundant linking [In reply to] Can't Post

You've pointed out basically all the reasons I've always thought that there didn't need to be any extra linking done at the end of TABA. Just let the LOTR movies grow out of the Hobbit films in the same way that the books do. That's my thinking anyway.

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


Ardamírë
Valinor


Mar 4 2013, 2:54am

Post #13 of 47 (651 views)
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More beginnings, please [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm very much looking forward to the extra Shire scenes that are likely to be in the EE - baby Bilbo and Shire market specifically.

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Mar 4 2013, 3:51am

Post #14 of 47 (630 views)
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I don't think any linking needs to be done, [In reply to] Can't Post

but for one thing... i would love to see a shot of Gollum, walking on hands and feet, into the wild, to begin his wanderings. His appearance in AUJ made me love the character even more, and i think it would be kind of sad, but cool, to see him beginning his long, tragic journey to his eventual end.


Ardamírë
Valinor


Mar 4 2013, 4:00am

Post #15 of 47 (614 views)
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But that's just what I mean [In reply to] Can't Post

That kind of a scene/shot is just exactly what I feel The Hobbit doesn't need. There's enough going on in the rest of the story that I personally don't want to see a Gollum link.

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Mar 4 2013, 4:05am

Post #16 of 47 (605 views)
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I know what you're saying, and i agree. [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think the movies need any more linking than what appears naturally in the narative. The Gollum thing is just what i see in my head, and if it were included, necessary or not, it would make me happy. That's all.


Ardamírë
Valinor


Mar 4 2013, 4:11am

Post #17 of 47 (598 views)
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I understand that :) [In reply to] Can't Post

I have my own scene I'd love to see - Aragorn & Arwen's first meeting. It's just too bad that it's not at all necessary to this story. I bet it would have been in a bridge film Unsure

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


Valandil ed Imladris
Lorien


Mar 4 2013, 9:08am

Post #18 of 47 (567 views)
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I love all the "endings" of ROTK [In reply to] Can't Post

so bring it on Tongue


RaoulJ
Rivendell


Mar 4 2013, 11:21am

Post #19 of 47 (549 views)
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Ori isn't knocked into the well [In reply to] Can't Post

Ori is sitting against the tomb of Balin, Or at least the dwarf with the book is. Pippin is twisting an arrow of a completely different dwarf and then the dwarf falls into the well..

It shows some more connection between Ori and Balin, he stood by the tomb to defend it to the last man, meanwhile describing the events happening...


Glorfindela
Valinor

Mar 4 2013, 11:44am

Post #20 of 47 (536 views)
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What I think it doesn't need [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
That kind of a scene/shot is just exactly what I feel The Hobbit doesn't need. There's enough going on in the rest of the story that I personally don't want to see a Gollum link.


...is more Shire scenes, and God forbid any meetings or sightings of Arwen and Aragorn.

Although I love the way the Shire is portrayed, and all of the episode with the Dwarves at Bag End, I don't find that the 'simple' Shire Hobbits are very interesting at all, and I wouldn't look forward to seeing yet another version of (an even younger) Bilbo. I much prefer the central characters of the story, and do not want to know about peripheral events/characters. If there is going to be an extended edition of the film, I would prefer to see events that enhance the key existing characters.


DanielLB
Immortal


Mar 4 2013, 11:50am

Post #21 of 47 (553 views)
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The unfinished epilogue would have made for another brilliant ending. [In reply to] Can't Post

I hope we see it one day. Evil


painjoiker
Grey Havens


Mar 4 2013, 12:27pm

Post #22 of 47 (533 views)
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btw! [In reply to] Can't Post

How do we know that dwarf is Ori?
It isn't addressed as Ori in the film :o
I know it's supposed to be Ori in the books, but since it's not in the movie, how do we know the film-makers intended it to be Ori?

Vocalist in the progressive metal band Renamed.


DanielLB
Immortal


Mar 4 2013, 3:00pm

Post #23 of 47 (503 views)
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The noses are almost identical! [In reply to] Can't Post

Ori in The Hobbit
Ori in The Lord of the Rings


Ardamírë
Valinor


Mar 4 2013, 3:01pm

Post #24 of 47 (513 views)
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Epilogue [In reply to] Can't Post

You really like it? I for one am so glad it did not make the cut.

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


Ardamírë
Valinor


Mar 4 2013, 3:03pm

Post #25 of 47 (496 views)
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Of course it doesn't need Arwen [In reply to] Can't Post

I've already said as much.

And unless I'm missing something, Bilbo is the central character if The Hobbit. Showing more scenes of him in the Shire is a good thing, IMO.

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).

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