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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
Late answers

sador
Valinor


Mar 3 2013, 10:40am


Views: 130
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Late answers [In reply to] Can't Post

1. Lonely Mountains, Lonely Isles…they may be one of a kind, but why does Tolkien choose to call them Lonely?
The Lonely Isles aren't one of a kind.
I assume they are far from any other landmarks - a sort of beacon, or haven, or enchanted otherworldly place.

Does he use that term for any other spots in Aman or Middle Earth?
Not that I remember.

How does that descriptor impact your impressions of these places?
After too many uses, it becomes tedious. Or like a Led Zeppelin soing.

2. Osse causes trouble again! What is with this guy?

Well, according to the Valaquenta, he was troublesome from the beginning.

Why can’t he just let the Teleri go?
You know - there is one Maia who really cares about the elves, not just as playthings - and you criticse him? Just why?

Also, according to most of Tolkien's drafts, Ulmo was against inviting the elves to Valinor to begin with. It is only reasonable for his vassal to share this regret.

3. Is the creation of the Lonely Isle a political compromise?
Why political?

What are the ramifications of Osse and Ulmo’s actions in choosing to root the Island in the Bay?
For one thing, someone learns to build ships.

Why don’t the Valar just outvote these guys and move the Island?
They could try. Good luck to them!
And after all, the Valar didn't really care.

4. For divine beings, the Valar and the Maia are pretty human at times, aren't they?
Like any gods of politheistic myths. That's where the fun comes from.

5. Do you like the imagery here? I find these passages very moving in some ways – do you?
Not especially.

Tolkien will refer to Tuna and Tirion many times in the Sil -- does he give us enough to go on here to be able to recall these places or have some kind of emotional resonance with them when he does bring them up again?

Not enough for me. But different people react differently.

What about the reference to mortal men in connection with Tirion – does it make you curious as to who those lucky guys will be?

Lucky? Think of the poor boy who was marooned in The Sea-Bell!

Does the introduction of the human element impact your perceptions of this place in any way?
Frankly, it sounds unbelievable. Maybe a residue from an earlier stage of the Sil-myths.

6. In this section, we get the introduction of the White Tree of Numenor…for me, when I first read the Sil, the references to people, places and things I’d encountered in LOTR were very helpful because they gave me a place to land in the middle of all of the new things Tolkien was pouring out at me. Anyone else find this helpful?
On my first reading, I hardly understood the Sil at all. My second reading was with Foster's Guide to Middle-earth, who spelled out the connections for me. Only later, I got to make new connections for myself.

Would you say this is one of the key things that sets LOTR apart from other fantasy tales?

Yes. (That was an easy question!)

On the other hand, an author can get too carried away by trying to connect all the dots between past and future, and the story becomes an explanation and not a story... Does Tolkien manage to avoid this trap, for you?

Not entirely, and he never wrote most of the Sil into proper stories, like he did with Turin.
But yes, it does stand on its feet for itself.

Any comments on the way Tolkien weaves the Sil into LOTR and LOTR into the Sil?
Not at the moment.


Subject User Time
*Silmarillion Discussion: Chapter 5, "Of Eldamar and the Princes of the Eldalie", Part 2 -- The Great Teleri Compromise and a Guided Tour…* weaver Send a private message to weaver Feb 23 2013, 9:18pm
    Of islands and where to live CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Feb 24 2013, 12:32am
    lists, names and more stuff to remember... elevorn Send a private message to elevorn Feb 25 2013, 6:42pm
    answers for questions that need them Escapist Send a private message to Escapist Feb 25 2013, 7:13pm
    Some answers from a "mythic" perspective FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Feb 27 2013, 12:39pm
        Silmarillion's actuality Mixel Send a private message to Mixel Feb 28 2013, 11:45pm
        and thank you for those answers! telain Send a private message to telain Mar 1 2013, 12:36am
            Myths, floods, and physical geography? CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Mar 1 2013, 1:20am
                a very dim light! but a light nonetheless telain Send a private message to telain Mar 1 2013, 11:55pm
                    Enlightening--thanks!// CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Mar 3 2013, 2:29pm
    Late answers sador Send a private message to sador Mar 3 2013, 10:40am

 
 
 

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