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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Coronation in Erebor and shall we say breezy throne room?
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Cirashala
Grey Havens


Mar 3 2013, 5:22am

Post #1 of 28 (998 views)
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Coronation in Erebor and shall we say breezy throne room? Can't Post

I keep having a thought, and it mystifies me.

Usually we think of coronations as being something like a wedding-ya know, center long red carpet (or substitute color of banner) leading up to the throne, with throngs of people lined on either side, dressed in their finest, amazing music, slow procession toward the throne, some wise person deemed worthy takes a crown from someone next to them where it had been resting on a pillow, then in a slow motion solemn move amidst silence, the king to be goes down on one (or both) knees, and the crown is placed atop his head. Suddenly, the room bursts with cheers as the king turns and is presented to his subjects. What follows is a massive party (and if we know the dwarves at all-a VERY raucous, very messy, very lively food fight of a party!)

So, I keep thinking about Thror's throne room, and how it consists of a throne carved out of the mountain, with a 5 FOOT WIDE walk toward it, with DEADLY SHEER DROP AND NO RAILS on either side, only broken by the occasional side pathway.

Yeah sure- if someone shows up who is hostile toward the king, it would take next to nothing to defend the throne-just chuck the would be assassins over the edge and problem solved. But somehow I seriously doubt they would want to do that to their faithful subjects Crazy Especially after traveling to reclaim a long abandoned kingdom.

So *SPOILER ALERT* I wonder how the coronation would go, whether it be Dain's or whether PJ&co listen to the fandom pleas to keep at least ONE of the line of Durin alive to ascend the throne (seriously doubt it)?

Would the people just stand on the narrow pathway in some sort of wake of a line behind the king to be (the ants go marching one by one children's song comes to mind lol)? Or would it be like Aragorn's coronation, where there was just simply too darn many people that they were forced to have it outside the throne room? Or would it be done in the Halls of Thror where Smaug presumably gathered the treasure and subsequently I would imagine managed to damage the hall in the process? Perhaps after it was restored?

Or, given the deaths of Thorin, Fili, and Kili, would Dain just quietly assume the throne in their wake, basically say a vow, have the crown plopped on his head, then go about his business? No formal ceremony, no big genocide, er, ceremony where people somehow manage NOT to fall off the pathway?

What do you guys think? Is Thror's throne room going to be coronation hall, or somewhere else? And if the throne room is indeed the coronation, would the people be on the floor below, presumably hundreds of feet down, and the participants in the ceremony shouting to be heard?

This is of course assuming the coronation will be in the film, but if its not we know at least that it had to happen sometime.

Feel free to present your own theories!

Half Elven Daughter of Celethian of the Woodland Realm


Dwarf Cupcake
The Shire


Mar 3 2013, 5:50am

Post #2 of 28 (509 views)
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Well... [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm pretty sure PJ & Co have stuck to canon and will let the line of Durin get wiped out *Sniffle, sniffle* So, I'm thinking if we see a coronation at all, it's going to be a quiet thing. Maybe more like a "field promotion" than a coronation.

Not All those who wander are lost...


Oin's parasite
Rivendell


Mar 3 2013, 6:22am

Post #3 of 28 (461 views)
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What if... [In reply to] Can't Post

PJ kills off EVERY possible dwarf who could take up the title of King and gives the crown to Bombur at the end? Eh? Eh!?

"I've got parasites as big as my arm!"


alienorchid
Lorien


Mar 3 2013, 7:08am

Post #4 of 28 (485 views)
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I would prefer something thoughtful (spoilers!) [In reply to] Can't Post

and I'm thinking of that scene after the battle of Helm's Deep where they honour the dead in Meduseld - it's a solemn, thoughtful moment, followed by a big party. I feel like it's a similar kind of situation, where they have lost many, including Thorin, Fili and Kili, yet have much to be thankful and happy for - the death of Smaug, the defeat of Bolg/Azog and the other goblins, and the new alliance between the elves, men and dwarves.

So I would like to see Dain crowned perhaps in front of Erebor, or in the entrance hall, then maybe the assembled crowd would watch him ascend the steps to the throne above, followed by a feast where dwarf, elf and man share bread and beverage to solidify their friendship and make plans for the re-building and renewal of the Desolation that Smaug had left.

I wouldn't want PJ&co to change anything about the deaths of Thorin, Fili and Kili. Of course, I'm sure I will bawl my eyes out (as I do in the book!), it's such a sad ending for the young dwarves, but it seems fitting that they would defend Thorin to the death, and I would absolutely hate if only one of them was left behind.


Old Toby
Gondor


Mar 3 2013, 7:22am

Post #5 of 28 (458 views)
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For myself, [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
and I'm thinking of that scene after the battle of Helm's Deep where they honour the dead in Meduseld - it's a solemn, thoughtful moment, followed by a big party. I feel like it's a similar kind of situation, where they have lost many, including Thorin, Fili and Kili, yet have much to be thankful and happy for - the death of Smaug, the defeat of Bolg/Azog and the other goblins, and the new alliance between the elves, men and dwarves.

So I would like to see Dain crowned perhaps in front of Erebor, or in the entrance hall, then maybe the assembled crowd would watch him ascend the steps to the throne above, followed by a feast where dwarf, elf and man share bread and beverage to solidify their friendship and make plans for the re-building and renewal of the Desolation that Smaug had left.

I wouldn't want PJ&co to change anything about the deaths of Thorin, Fili and Kili. Of course, I'm sure I will bawl my eyes out (as I do in the book!), it's such a sad ending for the young dwarves, but it seems fitting that they would defend Thorin to the death, and I would absolutely hate if only one of them was left behind.



with the death of those three, I won't be in a party mood. Dain's coronation isn't something I am going to care a whole lot about, I get the feeling. And I really hope they don't make a big deal out of it. Jeez, I'm already getting choked up just thinking of those three dying! Help! I'm gonna be a basket case come December 17, 2014! Unsure

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)


Dwarf Cupcake
The Shire


Mar 3 2013, 7:44am

Post #6 of 28 (434 views)
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*Hands over a tissue* [In reply to] Can't Post

 Know the feeling! I'm hoping it will surpass our expectations(which I'm sure it will!), but yeah, I don't think we're going to be ready to party like a Dwarf party at that point...

Not All those who wander are lost...


Old Toby
Gondor


Mar 3 2013, 7:59am

Post #7 of 28 (417 views)
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*sniff* thank you [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Know the feeling! I'm hoping it will surpass our expectations(which I'm sure it will!), but yeah, I don't think we're going to be ready to party like a Dwarf party at that point...


Could you pass the whole box please?

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)


Dwarf Cupcake
The Shire


Mar 3 2013, 8:04am

Post #8 of 28 (412 views)
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Here, Dear [In reply to] Can't Post

Take 2...we're going to need them! I was listening to the soundtrack from Fellowship of the Ring just now, and I got choked up during the Moria music, knowing now what I didn't fully realize then...

Not All those who wander are lost...


alienorchid
Lorien


Mar 3 2013, 8:05am

Post #9 of 28 (423 views)
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I will be heartbroken! [In reply to] Can't Post

That's for sure! The way PJ&co have characterised them, has made them really lovable so it will be even harder to see them die! But, I still hope that they do die, not just because it's canon, but because it kind of fits with the theme of bittersweet-ness that runs through all of Tolkien's works.

So, I hope there is a feast or some kind of celebration, but I hope that we mainly see it through the eyes of the remainder of the Company. I hope that we see Bilbo and the other Dwarves realising that the real treasure at the end of the adventure is not just the gold and jewels, but the reconciliation and renewal of the north-eastern communities.


DanielLB
Immortal


Mar 3 2013, 8:20am

Post #10 of 28 (444 views)
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I'd rather just have a line, or two, to be honest. [In reply to] Can't Post

Once Thorin, Fili, Kili, Radagast and Tauriel are dead, they're really going to want to finish the film ASAP.

After all the funerals, I can imagine the camera zooming out of Erebor over a map of Middle-earth, followed by an verbal epilogue by (Old) Bilbo. It would be easy for them to quickly slip in that Dain became King, the relationship between the Elves and Dwarves improved, Middle-earth was Sauron free etc. etc.


Roheryn
Grey Havens

Mar 3 2013, 9:52am

Post #11 of 28 (420 views)
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I keep reading "breezy throne room" [***spoilers***] [In reply to] Can't Post

and keep getting stuck on a mental image of breezy kingly robes, and what one wizard said in Harry Potter explaining why he refused to put on anything underneath his dress (when dressed as a muggle) -- he liked "healthy breezes".

Ahem. Anyways, on to your question.

I think the coronation is going to be really tricky to handle. If done as a big full-blown ceremony (a la Aragorn's coronation in ROTK), I think there are 10 dwarves who will be prominent in the audience who are going to be having some very mixed feelings about Dain being their new king. Coronations are supposed to be happy, joyous events; this one isn't going to be. Those 10 dwarves will have just lost their almost-king, whom they all loved and followed with a fierce loyalty, as well as their almost-king's two heirs, who presumably were also well-loved. They're not going to be happy about having a new king. Furthermore, being King Under the Mountain is NOT something that Dain has been working hard towards for most of his life (unlike Thorin, and unlike Aragorn working towards his own kingship). Neither we nor the surviving dwarves are going to see his ascension as the happy culmination of a lifetime's hard work. Thus, a full-blown this-is-a-happy-coronation-ceremony strikes me as really out of place. Besides, it would have to be juxtaposed against the burial -- triple burial, really -- and a ceremony presented as a happy occasion adjacent to the burials would really be too much to take.

This leaves me with something much more simple. Maybe Dain will be at Thorin's deathbed, and Thorin will simply hand him the crown. Next we see him, Dain's wearing the crown and giving orders in a kingly fashion. Could be enough. But I figure we'll have to see the other dwarves bow to him as they acknowledge him as the new king. It's going to kill Balin and Dwalin, in particular, to have to bow to Dain. *sniffle*

Will they be up for a raucous dwarf-party afterwards? Somehow I doubt it. I know I won't be!


(This post was edited by Roheryn on Mar 3 2013, 9:54am)


elaen32
Gondor

Mar 3 2013, 10:06am

Post #12 of 28 (391 views)
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Maybe the coronation will be shown in flashback [In reply to] Can't Post

when Gandalf and Balin later visit Bilbo in the Shire. Rather than a detailed scene, a voiceover from one of them over images from the coronation along the lines of how there was now peace and understanding in the north between dwarves, elves and men, shown by them all uniting for the coronation of Dain. They might also briefly show Bard being crowned in Dale. I could certainly cope better with this scenario than a joyful "Aragorn-style" celebration!!!

"Beneath the roof of sleeping leaves the dreams of trees unfold"


Bellerock
Rivendell

Mar 3 2013, 11:39am

Post #13 of 28 (371 views)
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Is it a massacre? [In reply to] Can't Post

Seriously, I know that the deaths of Thorin and his nephew are canon, but now you want to kill Radagast and Tauriel too? Is this just speculation on your part, or do you have some "inside information"?


DanielLB
Immortal


Mar 3 2013, 12:00pm

Post #14 of 28 (360 views)
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Speculation [In reply to] Can't Post

And being a wind-up merchant. Angelic

Though, I really don't see Tauriel surviving.


Bellerock
Rivendell

Mar 3 2013, 1:13pm

Post #15 of 28 (343 views)
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Ah, I see [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought perhaps it was a case like the old Rankin Bass cartoon where they killed off even more dwarves than in the books. Although, I suppose that trying to crowd everyone onto the throne room runway might do the trick.


ryouko
Lorien

Mar 3 2013, 2:16pm

Post #16 of 28 (325 views)
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hmmm [In reply to] Can't Post

I wonder. Do Dwarves have coronations?

And considering the events that just happened, would Dain want one?


Brethil
Half-elven


Mar 3 2013, 3:11pm

Post #17 of 28 (322 views)
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Go. Bid the soldiers shoot. [In reply to] Can't Post

Its going to be grim. Its a battlefield ascension.

I would love to see a quick flashback, just a quick one, of Dain naming his son Thorin.........(sniffle)


Brethil
Half-elven


Mar 3 2013, 3:14pm

Post #18 of 28 (313 views)
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You said it Old Toby.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Pass the tissues. Definitely not a party. I'm bringing the flu-season size box for me and my BFF. Tallest Dwarf Prince is going to just hate it.


TheSexyBeard
Lorien

Mar 3 2013, 9:50pm

Post #19 of 28 (242 views)
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Positive Counter [In reply to] Can't Post

Dain's coronation can be something of a positive counter to the funerals if they come first. Remember the surviving Iron Hill army will be present and proud to see one of their own become king. I think it really depends on how Dain is portrayed, if he comes across a great leader, devastated at the loss of his kin and somewhat reluctant to take the throne but willing to step up and lead his race, I think the whole coronation scene could work quite well. Maybe they bring the birth of his son forward, and show him naming him Thorin in front of Bilbo and company.

Yes, my username is terrible.


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Mar 3 2013, 10:02pm

Post #20 of 28 (226 views)
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I know [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm sure my family will be giving me a hard time as I bawl my eyes out I just know it. But it's all in love. I will need multiple Kleenexes and I will only be able to "hear" the Funeral scene with the Arkenstone and Orcrist because I won't be able to see it as my eyes will be swollen and red. Sort of like..Bilbo's..in the book.

"Then Bilbo turned away, and he went by himself, and sat alone wrapped in a blanket, and, whether you believe it or not, he wept until his eyes were red and his voice was hoarse."

At that moment, we are all Bilbo. To the last person in the cinema.


dik-dik
Lorien


Mar 3 2013, 10:13pm

Post #21 of 28 (223 views)
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Oh I would love that... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I would love to see a quick flashback, just a quick one, of Dain naming his son Thorin.........(sniffle)


... as extended edition material. :) I don't think it likely for this scene to be included, but the fan in me would rejoice. :)

"A journalist once asked me what I would like my epitaph to be and I said I think I would like it to be 'He did very little harm'. And that's not easy. Most people seem to me to do a great deal of harm. If I could be remembered as having done very little, that would suit me." ~ Paul Eddington


Brethil
Half-elven


Mar 3 2013, 10:21pm

Post #22 of 28 (215 views)
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So right Ham Sammy! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To


At that moment, we are all Bilbo. To the last person in the cinema.


Perfectly said.


Brethil
Half-elven


Mar 3 2013, 10:22pm

Post #23 of 28 (218 views)
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I'll take it in EE too [In reply to] Can't Post

Just helps to think that somewhere in ME walks a Thorin.


DisDwarfWoman
Bree

Mar 4 2013, 4:31am

Post #24 of 28 (177 views)
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I agree completely... [In reply to] Can't Post

"and I would absolutely hate if only one of them was left behind"

Can you imagine Fili or Kili having to live with losing their brother? (The scene from AUJ with the stone-giants comes to mind here, the look on their faces when they get separated!)

On a related note, I always imagined Thorin was actually okay with dying (if not down right happy about it) once he found out that they had died. Though I've always thought it odd that Tolkien didn't mention anything about it in the book.


Rostron2
Gondor


Mar 4 2013, 8:08pm

Post #25 of 28 (90 views)
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It's not about Dain [In reply to] Can't Post

Is there any evidence of a coronation scene? Stray pictures? We might hear about Dain assuming the mantle after-the-fact somehow, but I really don't see a LOTR-style coronation happening. Sorry dwarf-o-philes, but this isn't about Dain getting crowned. Bilbo didn't attend a coronation in the book. If they do it, it to have a fancy scene to fill time in TABA. You'd have to do Bard, too.

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