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The One Ring Forums: Off Topic: Off Topic:
PJ's title

Glorfindela
Valinor

Feb 28 2013, 12:02pm

Post #1 of 23 (511 views)
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PJ's title Can't Post

Why is PJ sometimes referred to as Sir Peter? I didn't think New Zealand had an honours system of the type that Britain has.

Is this an honour that has been conferred upon him by LOTR/Hobbit enthusiasts? Smile


Arannir
Valinor

Feb 28 2013, 12:14pm

Post #2 of 23 (379 views)
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Lizzy [In reply to] Can't Post

Elizabeth II made him Sir Peter Jackson, ONZ, KNZM (Order of New Zealand and Knight Companion of the New Zealand order of Merit) over the years.

ONZ is the highest you can get in New Zealand and he received that appointment in 2012 (trivia: the same year the Queen's husband got it).


New Zealand is part of the Commonwealth of Nations and the Queen Head of State.


(This post was edited by Arannir on Feb 28 2013, 12:18pm)


Glorfindela
Valinor

Feb 28 2013, 1:26pm

Post #3 of 23 (309 views)
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That's fantastic! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Elizabeth II made him Sir Peter Jackson, ONZ, KNZM (Order of New Zealand and Knight Companion of the New Zealand order of Merit) over the years.

ONZ is the highest you can get in New Zealand and he received that appointment in 2012 (trivia: the same year the Queen's husband got it).


New Zealand is part of the Commonwealth of Nations and the Queen Head of State.


I never knew that! I did know that New Zealand is part of the Commonwealth, and now that I think about it various dignitaries from other parts of the Commonwealth have been given titles, I believe.

Thanks for the response. Smile


(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Feb 28 2013, 1:27pm)


elaen32
Gondor

Feb 28 2013, 3:23pm

Post #4 of 23 (264 views)
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Richard Taylor is also a knight [In reply to] Can't Post

I think in the same order. He got his honour around the same time as PJ I believe. I'm not sure that I entirely agree with the British & Commonwealth honours system as it stands ( too many negative imperialistic connotations), but its great to be able to give some sort of honour and PJ & RT certainly are well deserving of theirs IMO

"Beneath the roof of sleeping leaves the dreams of trees unfold"


Glorfindela
Valinor

Feb 28 2013, 4:01pm

Post #5 of 23 (243 views)
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I didn't know that, either [In reply to] Can't Post

Great stuff!

I do agree with the honours system, although in my view some people who are knighted certainly do not deserve to be.

In this instance, however, the awards are fully justified, and I am very pleased for PJ and Richard Taylor.


elaen32
Gondor

Feb 28 2013, 4:19pm

Post #6 of 23 (238 views)
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Well I agree with having AN honours system [In reply to] Can't Post

just not in the "British Empire" part of titles such as the OBE, MBE etc. Maybe " Order of the Commonwealth" might be better, so could then be shortened to OrC!! Only kidding, that last bit!
I certainly cheered when PJ & RT got their knighthoods, thought they were a bit overdue to be honest

"Beneath the roof of sleeping leaves the dreams of trees unfold"


Glorfindela
Valinor

Feb 28 2013, 4:26pm

Post #7 of 23 (238 views)
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My cousin has an OBE [In reply to] Can't Post

... so obviously I disagree with you. (She did thoroughly deserve it.) Tongue

PJ and RT's knighthoods were certainly overdue, and I completely missed the fact that they received them.


elaen32
Gondor

Feb 28 2013, 4:36pm

Post #8 of 23 (222 views)
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I think actually we mostly agree.. [In reply to] Can't Post

I believe people like your cousin certainly should get honours and recognition. It's the name of the honour I'm questioning, since Britain doesn't have an empire any more, thankfully. We'll have to agree to disagree on the semantics of the title of the honours, but, essentially, people like your cousin are what it should all be about, as you say.

"Beneath the roof of sleeping leaves the dreams of trees unfold"


imin
Valinor


Feb 28 2013, 4:40pm

Post #9 of 23 (229 views)
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I just see it [In reply to] Can't Post

as a nod to history, it being called what it is. I don't think anyone really thinks there is still a British empire.

I know terrible things occurred when Britain created an empire but i believe it also did lots of good around the world.

Personally i am amazed such a small nation could control so much of the planet.


elaen32
Gondor

Feb 28 2013, 4:48pm

Post #10 of 23 (210 views)
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I have probably been influenced [In reply to] Can't Post

by a number of things I have read and watched re some.of the awful things that empire did in the past, tho, as you say, there were some good things achieved also. Or maybe I'm still a bit of an old leftie deep down!

"Beneath the roof of sleeping leaves the dreams of trees unfold"


imin
Valinor


Feb 28 2013, 5:09pm

Post #11 of 23 (205 views)
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I personally feel [In reply to] Can't Post

that the positives of that time are played down (in the teaching of this time in the UK) due to the constant reminder that there was slavery - something which is terrible to people now but for its time was normal and i think its too hard to get ones head around - i know i can't think its ok and can't see how anyone did but they must have.

I just think of the infrastructure, education, health, government, law and order, religious tolerance, abolition of the slave trade years before US for example of some of the good that was done.

Of course there were the bad things which have been more widely publicized.

Overall i think its hard to say did the good things outweigh the bad. Looking at it now for many places in the empire - Canada, Australia, NZ, India, US (kinda) i would say yes overall. For other places mainly Africa i would say no sadly.


Moahunter
Rohan


Feb 28 2013, 6:30pm

Post #12 of 23 (206 views)
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Almost all British honours were abolished by the NZ Labour government in 1996/97.... [In reply to] Can't Post

and from 2000 no further knighthoods and damehoods were to be awarded.
As to be expected the National government brought back the knighthoods to the New Zealand Honours system in 2009 with past recipients of the New Zealand Order of Merit to be eligible to receive titles.
Nothing wrong with the NZ Order of Merit but hell will freeze over before I will refer to PJ as "Sir".


imin
Valinor


Feb 28 2013, 6:42pm

Post #13 of 23 (196 views)
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What's wrong with calling someone sir? [In reply to] Can't Post

At my school we had to call male teachers sir so i am totally used to it. I just see it as a sign of respect but i imagine you see it very differently.

Also thanks for letting us (me) know about the changes in NZ relating to knight and damehoods, i didn't know that happened.


Cirashala
Grey Havens

Mar 1 2013, 1:56am

Post #14 of 23 (156 views)
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Title [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't condemn PJ for receiving the title, but if ANYONE deserves it I think Tolkien should get an artistically granted title even if its posthumous. Without him, we wouldn't even have LOTR or the Hobbit!

Half Elven Daughter of Celethian of the Woodland Realm


Starling
Half-elven


Mar 1 2013, 5:36am

Post #15 of 23 (141 views)
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Just wait, Moahunter [In reply to] Can't Post

It won't be long until the current lot start slapping knighthoods on each other.


Starling
Half-elven


Mar 1 2013, 5:42am

Post #16 of 23 (154 views)
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Well I can't speak for Moahunter, [In reply to] Can't Post

but there are plenty of people in NZ who are not keen on that honours system, particularly if they would prefer us to be a republic, rather than part of the monarchy.
And as you know, there is difference between 'sir' as a respectful way of addressing someone, and a titled 'Sir'.


Rolfina
Rivendell


Mar 1 2013, 7:29am

Post #17 of 23 (152 views)
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Doesn't the Union Jack in the New Zealand flag [In reply to] Can't Post

kind of give it away? Sly


imin
Valinor


Mar 1 2013, 10:21am

Post #18 of 23 (127 views)
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For me Sir and sir [In reply to] Can't Post

are pretty much the same. Sir shows someone has excelled in their chosen field to a very high level and have been given a knighthood as a honour/mark of respect. When Bradley Wiggins won the Tour de France and then went on to win another gold medal at the London Olympics people were saying he should be knighted as recognition.

I can see why people don't like the specific system of British empire if one wants a republic and to me there would be no difference between New Zealand Order of Merit and being knighted. I dunno i just don't see it as a big deal - calling someone Sir in this way would just be a mark of respect and most likely they would just say oh don't be silly, just call me pete or whatever. To me nowadays its just an award to recognise just how good you are in your chosen field and reward you for that hard work.

I do think they are giving them out too freely now - seems like half the Olympic team got given some kind of honour.

If for some reason you were asked if you would like to receive an honour would you accept it or decline?


Moahunter
Rohan


Mar 1 2013, 10:22am

Post #19 of 23 (142 views)
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Get a Board of Directors which includes a couple of former MPs with knighthoods...... [In reply to] Can't Post

heading up a finance company.
The punters will queue up to give you their money.


Glorfindela
Valinor

Mar 1 2013, 1:26pm

Post #20 of 23 (127 views)
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I agree with this [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I do think they are giving them out too freely now - seems like half the Olympic team got given some kind of honour.

If for some reason you were asked if you would like to receive an honour would you accept it or decline?


I also think the honours are given too freely and often to the wrong people, such as bankers (think Fred Goodwin!), politicians, and some pop stars and other celebrity types. However, for good deeds, courageous acts, and excellence in academia, arts and culture, they are a very good way of rewarding people who have had a positive influence on our world.


(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Mar 1 2013, 1:26pm)


Starling
Half-elven


Mar 1 2013, 9:40pm

Post #21 of 23 (92 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post

in the unlikely event that I was offered an honour of some sort, I would be happy to be awarded a NZ one, but would decline the 'Dame' thing. There are people here in NZ who decline knighthoods, as some did in the recent round.

Mind you, 'Dame Starling' sounds rather grand...Cool


imin
Valinor


Mar 1 2013, 9:55pm

Post #22 of 23 (90 views)
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Sir Imin, lol [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah sounds cool to me, lol.

Is there a reason as to why you would accept one but decline the other? I am guessing it is because you wish NZ to be a Republic rather than part of the Commonwealth?

I wouldn't refuse the knighthood if it ever came (not going to happen, lol) but then as i live in the UK it's kinda like the New Zealand Order of Merit for you - as in from your own country. A dentist in my hometown does have an honour - think its an OBE or MBE can't remember but not a damehood.

Sir Imin of Valinor - has a good ring to it i think, haha.


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Mar 2 2013, 3:27am

Post #23 of 23 (104 views)
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If you would like... [In reply to] Can't Post

you may be made knight by me. If you accept, here is your oath (borrowed from Kingdom of Heaven):

"Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong - that is your oath."

That was the easy part; now go do the hard part.

Smile

 
 

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