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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
*SPOILERS* PJ setting up average movie goers who haven't read TH book
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ArwenU
The Shire

Feb 28 2013, 6:47am

Post #1 of 28 (1112 views)
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*SPOILERS* PJ setting up average movie goers who haven't read TH book Can't Post

I'm a LOTR fan, probably not die hard like most on this board. I read The Hobbit years ago but forgot most of the details, and recently read it again after watching the movie. I knew Thorin would die but forgot that Kili/Fili also!

It seems that in AUJ, PJ is giving Fili/Kili lots of air time and character development, more than most of the other dwarfs. The average movie goers who haven't read the book (I know several) will be in for a shock when they die, along with Thorin. I think the average fans are assuming all the dwarfs survive like the fellowship in the LOTR (except for Boromir of course).

I'm not going to spoil it for my friends who haven't read the book. It should be interesting seeing their reaction when 3 beloved main characters die.


(This post was edited by Earl on Feb 28 2013, 8:00am)


Elizabeth
Valinor


Feb 28 2013, 7:56am

Post #2 of 28 (548 views)
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Spoilers in this post ^^^ [In reply to] Can't Post

ArwenU: Welcome to TORn, but please warn people if you're going to reveal plot details! Some people try to avoid being "spoiled".








DanielLB
Immortal


Feb 28 2013, 8:30am

Post #3 of 28 (511 views)
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It certainly will be an unexpected surprise [In reply to] Can't Post

Since their are 13 Dwarves, I imagine some of the general audience will guess that they won't make it out all alive. But I'm guessing they would think it will be the secondary Dwarves, such as Nori or Bifur. 3 main character deaths will certainly be a surprise.

Even more of a surprise if you add Radagast and Tauriel on to the dead list. Wink


Hun200kmh
The Shire


Feb 28 2013, 9:42am

Post #4 of 28 (448 views)
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Happy thought [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll love to see this depiction of Radagast be killed and his rabbits eaten by Azog's army.


Bombadil
Half-elven


Feb 28 2013, 10:10am

Post #5 of 28 (437 views)
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Bomby Wants Radagast to ride off into the SUNset.. [In reply to] Can't Post

"Gandalf you take care of the South
I'm headed NORTH..
to go... to Mt. GUNDABAD!"

...LIKE the Lone Ranger
not even wait...
.. for ANY

Thank you!
(Music swells..and we are ALL..in TEARs..)

xoxoxoxo Bomby
..... (Raddy's Bomby's Bro!..)


Verbal_Daggers
The Shire


Feb 28 2013, 10:53am

Post #6 of 28 (410 views)
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? [In reply to] Can't Post

Radagast will die in The Hobbit? Shocked


sharku
Rivendell

Feb 28 2013, 10:57am

Post #7 of 28 (402 views)
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Na Valinor [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Radagast will die in The Hobbit? Shocked


Nope. An ethereal trip back to Valinor, at worst.


alienorchid
Lorien


Feb 28 2013, 11:01am

Post #8 of 28 (403 views)
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It wouldn't bother me if [In reply to] Can't Post

Tauriel lives or dies, since she's an invented character anyway. I guess dying would be slightly more preferable just because it would tie up her storyline neatly. I couldn't say for sure until I actually see her in action, though.

I'd prefer if Radagast either lived or if his end was ambiguous, however. There are certainly elements of his depiction that I dislike (stick insect, mushrooms/pipeweed, bird leavings down the side of his face) but he's still Radagast and Radagast, according to Tolkien, keeps on living and helping out (even if he was replaced by a moth in the LotR movie-verse)!

I'm not a total purist in the sense that I would want the movies to adhere perfectly to the books. Some things will always need to be changed to fit the medium, but I feel that things shouldn't be changed just for the sake of it, or just to provide more drama. There's plenty of tension and drama in the original story as it is!


stoutfiles
Rohan


Feb 28 2013, 1:16pm

Post #9 of 28 (401 views)
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Are we still doing that? [In reply to] Can't Post

I figure everyone has at least read the book by now. Otherwise, we would need to put "spoilers" in every topic header, almost every thread here has a spoiler in it.


stoutfiles
Rohan


Feb 28 2013, 1:20pm

Post #10 of 28 (389 views)
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Well he's definitely giving Kili time [In reply to] Can't Post

Fili gets time if he happens to be standing next to Kili. It's going to be even greater if the rumored "Kili loves Tauriel" plot happens.


arithmancer
Grey Havens

Feb 28 2013, 1:25pm

Post #11 of 28 (375 views)
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Surprisingly few, actually! [In reply to] Can't Post

I made this mistake in my early days, making reference to the (book) final disposition of a main character in a thread with someone who did not know it. So I am trying to be very mindful of this. But I find only a minority of my posts on this board contain actual spoilers. A lot of the discussion is about the AUJ film (what worked/did not) or speculation based on comments and materials released by the filmmakers.


Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Feb 28 2013, 2:55pm

Post #12 of 28 (339 views)
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Radagast dying [In reply to] Can't Post

I've seen this mentioned a few times here. Is there something to the "Radagast dying" rumour, or is it just fan speculation (or maybe wishful thinking for some of you)? I'm guessing if it were to happen, it would be in film 2 during the seige of Dol Guldur. I'm not pro-Radagast dying, but it would serve as a big moment during the climax of DoS. I, for one, am hoping he makes it out alive.

As for Tauriel, something tells me she's not going to die. She's the manifestation of Boyens' need to inject "feminine energy" where there doesn't need to be any, so on the contrary, I think she's going to survive the Bo5A, after kicking a ton of ass and possibly even saving a couple of hides. I have a feeling she's going to be portrayed as a female Legolas.

On another note, I'm hoping that the "secondary" dwarves get their moments to shine in the next film. Nori and Bifur each had one line in AUJ (and Bifur's wasn't even in English), and poor Bombur had NO lines!! I'm assuming that Bombur will get his moment in the spotlight in Mirkwood, as happens in the book.


Imladris18
Lorien

Feb 28 2013, 3:35pm

Post #13 of 28 (287 views)
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My thoughts exactly. [In reply to] Can't Post

That's what I envision as well.


Old Toby
Gondor


Feb 28 2013, 3:51pm

Post #14 of 28 (292 views)
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didn't she already? [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought that was evident from the *Spoilers* in the heading that she made? I myself am relatively new here, at least compared with some, and I try to put that in my heading also. Should we in addition put that in the beginning of the body of our posts? Just need some clarification on proceedures.

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Feb 28 2013, 3:53pm

Post #15 of 28 (279 views)
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I think one of the moderators [In reply to] Can't Post

edited that in.


Old Toby
Gondor


Feb 28 2013, 3:54pm

Post #16 of 28 (267 views)
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ah, okay then, that makes a difference! [In reply to] Can't Post

thanks for the clarification.

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)


utku
Rivendell


Feb 28 2013, 4:17pm

Post #17 of 28 (267 views)
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If they are aiming to create a heroine [In reply to] Can't Post

They may just as well kill her off in an heroic way. We have grew accustomed to male characters sacrificing their lives for others, but I don't think there is much instance where female characters are spared a good death in cinema. It would certainly give a twist to this "feminine energy", Tauriel killing a hundred orcs only to die later. And even if this is not remotely related, I think it would create a good contrast and tension for the Lord of the Rings trilogy where Arwen also makes a sacrifice but survives. After Tauriel's death, Arwen's survival would create a greater happy-ending feel.

Though there is this thing: If Radagast and Tauriel die on top of the book characters, the third movie will be a punch in the heart. I am not sure how that fits with the light nature of the Hobbit. As a twist that could work only if Bilbo is not to be affected by these tragedies (except for the obvious one), otherwise I think that would be a wrong way to go. I have always assumed Bilbo enjoyed his adventure even if faced great difficulty and pain, unlike Frodo who was just devastated. So as long as Bilbo is okay with the deaths, I don't care if it's a tearjerker. Tongue


DanielLB
Immortal


Feb 28 2013, 4:24pm

Post #18 of 28 (257 views)
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No, it's only ever been a rumour [In reply to] Can't Post

Just like the Gandriel romance. Nothing will ever come of it. Wink


stoutfiles
Rohan


Feb 28 2013, 4:32pm

Post #19 of 28 (244 views)
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Watered down [In reply to] Can't Post

Killing her off in the third movie when you already have three dwarves dying is not the best of ideas. The more deaths you add up, the more it becomes a collective sadness instead of sadness for the individuals.


ArwenU
The Shire

Feb 28 2013, 4:50pm

Post #20 of 28 (250 views)
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LOTR makes people think only bad guys die [In reply to] Can't Post

The LOTR was fairy tale like in that only the flawed characters died but the good ones survived. Yes there's exception like the Elf (forgot his name) who died in TTT but he's not a main or even secondary character. Even Gandalf came back from death. Seeing it from the perspective of average movie goers who only watched the movies and not read the book, I think they will assume this pattern will continue with TH.


ArwenU
The Shire

Feb 28 2013, 4:51pm

Post #21 of 28 (232 views)
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Radagast better not die [In reply to] Can't Post

He's one of my favorites, and I love the rabbit sleigh. Heart


Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Feb 28 2013, 6:35pm

Post #22 of 28 (199 views)
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You're right [In reply to] Can't Post

In Tolkien's writings, and indeed also in the films, it's usually the more complex and morally-grey good guys who get the axe, like Boromir and Denethor. And I think the deaths of Haldir and that one older Gondorian guy who was pointing at the map with Faramir were meant to prove that some familiar good-guy characters could die, but I for one didn't really care about Haldir or the Gondorian guy dying. I'm REALLY surprised they didn't have Gamling die, because he was exactly the same sort of character - a familiar face who had a few lines, but totally disposable.


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Feb 28 2013, 6:45pm

Post #23 of 28 (203 views)
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Theoden? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
The LOTR was fairy tale like in that only the flawed characters died but the good ones survived. Yes there's exception like the Elf (forgot his name) who died in TTT but he's not a main or even secondary character. Even Gandalf came back from death. Seeing it from the perspective of average movie goers who only watched the movies and not read the book, I think they will assume this pattern will continue with TH.

How does Theoden fit into this?


Rostron2
Gondor


Feb 28 2013, 8:13pm

Post #24 of 28 (187 views)
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I can't understand [In reply to] Can't Post

People that haven't read the book. It's a children's story, it's charming and easy. I just can't understand it. Maybe they haven't learned their letters from old Mr. Bilbo. Just a general comment, don't mind me.


ArwenU
The Shire

Feb 28 2013, 8:50pm

Post #25 of 28 (172 views)
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forgot about Theoden [In reply to] Can't Post

Good catch. Theoden's definitely an exception.
I'm mostly thinking of the company of dwarfs, Gandalf and Bilbo. There's a similarity to the fellowship in LOTR embarking on an adventure. All the good guys survived except for poor Boromir who coveted the ring.

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