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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Peter Jackson TH/LOTR edit?
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Brego93
The Shire


Feb 26 2013, 1:05pm

Post #1 of 32 (986 views)
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Peter Jackson TH/LOTR edit? Can't Post

Hi everyone, long time reader. Just joined. Smile

I was thinking the other day about how George Lucas edited the original star wars trilogy on the DVD, (bear with me) eg at the end when young anakin appears to Luke instead of old vader/anakin. This was much to the hatred of many fans of the time.

PJ has joked on the Lotr commentaries about releasing a 25th aniversary DVD edtion of Lotr with even more extended/deleted scenes. I was wondering whether he could, or would, edit them to link The hobbit and lotr even closer together. The example I thought of was super imposing Gloin into the Council of Elrond scene. He wouldn't get any more lines just an apearence and would replace one of the Dwarf extras. Also, though probably more controversial, even Bard? It would be easy enough to do and might be fun to see.

Would you like him to do this? If so any other ideas like this you can think of? Would he do it?

Just wanted to know what people thought Smile

"I don't know half of you as half as well as I should like and I like less than half of you as well as you deserve"


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Feb 26 2013, 2:12pm

Post #2 of 32 (496 views)
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I'm not a purist when it comes to this sort of thing. [In reply to] Can't Post

I think that when the right people do it it can be done well. Just because George Lucas did such an awful job with Star Wars doesn't mean that someone else can't do it brilliantly. Take Blade Runner for example. With his Final Edit, Ridley Scott made quite a few alterations, all for the better. Things like digitally placing Joanna Cassidy's newly shot facial performance over an obvious stunt double's, erasing visible Spinner wires, fixing some bad Harrison Ford lip syncing with newly shot footage of his look-alike son, replacing the jarringly incongruous warehouse exterior when the dove flies off from Batty's arms with a much more appropriate industrial city skyline. None of these things drastically alter Blade Runner, and they fit seemlessly into the rest of the film. If PJ were to apply this kind of ingenuity and restraint to the LotR films, i'd be fine with it. But-- and this is a deal breaker-- the originals must remain available (another of Lucas' crimes against art)!


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Feb 26 2013, 2:48pm

Post #3 of 32 (521 views)
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Gloin is already present at the Council of Elrond... [In reply to] Can't Post

The older Gloin is played by a different actor, but he is there.

How would you work including Bard in the scene? He died more than twenty years before Bilbo's eleventy-first birthday, to say nothing of the Council of Elrond.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Feb 26 2013, 3:28pm

Post #4 of 32 (415 views)
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Welcome to the boards! [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Feb 26 2013, 3:39pm

Post #5 of 32 (445 views)
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Bilbo and the Ring [In reply to] Can't Post

The only thing I think that would make sense to do that with would be the shots of younger Bilbo finding the Ring in Gollum's cave in the prologue.

As for Gloin, it wouldn't bother me if they inserted him into the Council of Elrond and could make it look believable, but it's really not necessary. The grey-haired dwarf seated next to Gimli at the Council has no dialogue and isn't ever addressed in the film, so are we even sure it was Gloin in the first place?


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Feb 26 2013, 4:25pm

Post #6 of 32 (450 views)
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I think they need to change FOTR [In reply to] Can't Post

And during the prologue they need to replace Ian Holm with Martin Freeman finding the ring. That's just my two cents. I'd like to see that.


Brego93
The Shire


Feb 26 2013, 4:45pm

Post #7 of 32 (391 views)
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Oh yes of coure! [In reply to] Can't Post

My mistake. Everyting gets confusing when all the races have different life spans. Would you rather not see a Peter Hambleton Gloin instead of just an extra?

"I don't know half of you as half as well as I should like and I like less than half of you as well as you deserve"


Brego93
The Shire


Feb 26 2013, 4:46pm

Post #8 of 32 (384 views)
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Thanks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Laugh. Of course yes that also would be good to see.

"I don't know half of you as half as well as I should like and I like less than half of you as well as you deserve"


Rostron2
Gondor


Feb 26 2013, 4:50pm

Post #9 of 32 (383 views)
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Not really necessary [In reply to] Can't Post

Although I still want to know who those other men were at the Council of Elrond. Yeah Gloin and another dwarf were there with Gimli. Gloin's beard goes white.


Arannir
Valinor

Feb 26 2013, 5:04pm

Post #10 of 32 (363 views)
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I don't need it... [In reply to] Can't Post

... and thinking of the discussions that would start between the camps regarding the changing of done movies, I would rather not have it, just to avoid that :D I do not even really care for SW and was still haunted by those fights.

Although, I think PJ does not have issues with it - didn't he say on a EE commentary that he might change FotR-Gollum at some point? However, he has not done it for the Blu-Ray release, so maybe he eventually decided to regard them as "done deals".


(This post was edited by Arannir on Feb 26 2013, 5:06pm)


fool_of_a_took
The Shire

Feb 26 2013, 5:34pm

Post #11 of 32 (377 views)
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Bilbo finding the ring [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think they'd change the way Bilbo found the ring. Remember, the ring immediately takes a small hold on Bilbo, that's the reason why he doesn't tell the company about the ring. He LIES. Maybe not on purpose, but he does. Now, when watching FotR, we see Bilbo "find" the ring, just like he tells the company, yet we know he sees it fall from Gollum's possesion. The lie is now the truth to him, if you know what I mean.


Kendalf
Rohan


Feb 26 2013, 6:09pm

Post #12 of 32 (332 views)
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Tiny, tiny tweaks only, please!! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I was thinking the other day about how George Lucas edited the original star wars trilogy...PJ has joked...about releasing a 25th aniversary DVD edtion of Lotr with even more extended/deleted scenes. I was wondering whether he could, or would, edit them to link The hobbit and lotr even closer together. Would you like him to do this? If so any other ideas like this you can think of? Would he do it?

Hi, Brego Smile Do you actually mean change the movies? Or just fiddle with them?

1) If he was simply to remaster the movies (with even better sound and crisper image than they already have) then I'd have no problem with that...although I see no need to do so for the forseeable future (at least until 4K TVs are the norm) as they are already great.

2) If he was to buff the CGI and colour-grading, I wouldn't mind that, either (and I'd include altering the look of FotR's Gollum here). A uniform standard of CGI and unified aesthetic colour-wise across the entire hexalogy would be very welcome in my book (as long as it did not degenerate into the self-indulgent addition of more trolls and more orcs or more sunsets just for showing-off's sake).

3) If he was to make changes to the film, I'd be a little more cautious, though. To me, it appears to be a slippery slope and one that Jackson (prone to the odd excess) may not be able to resist. Replace the FotR prologue's Holm with Freeman? Yes. Add Gloin somehow in the background at the Council? OK.

If I was going to push the boat out, I'd insert a reference to Dain's last stand in the War in the North. Some ADR from Gandalf on the balcony in Minas Tirith or from Frodo as we float over the map back to Hobbiton would do it. Just one line that would broaden the tapestry of the war a little and bring the character back to audience's minds (now that they're familiar with him from TaBA).

"I have found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."


(This post was edited by Kendalf on Feb 26 2013, 6:10pm)


Oscarilbo
Lorien


Feb 26 2013, 6:09pm

Post #13 of 32 (333 views)
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.... [In reply to] Can't Post

yeah but, it's Galadriel who is telling the story there in FOTR, not Bilbo. Besides the point is the continuity problem of having 2 actors playing a younger Bilbo.

"The World is Changed, I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air"


TheHutt
Gondor


Feb 26 2013, 6:34pm

Post #14 of 32 (322 views)
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Absolutely not [In reply to] Can't Post

Removing any of Sir Ian Holm's performance would be a crime.

Besides, the Ring finding scene from TH is entirely different from FOTR prologue besides having a different actor in it.


Brethil
Half-elven


Feb 26 2013, 6:43pm

Post #15 of 32 (312 views)
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True [In reply to] Can't Post

Gives us Bilbo's lead in statement in AUJ "...tell you what REALLY happened." AUJ makes it completely clear the Bilbo KNEW he had Gollum's ring, and was taking it, not like the FOTR prologue where its just a random token and Bilbo had no knowledge of its current ownership, as it were. The subtle change that Gandalf picks up on in Bilbo's charactar in the text and alarms him. So I wouldn't change it.

Putting in a consistent Gollum in the two early shots would be nice. That's it though.

...she took the point at once, but she also took the spoons.


Oscarilbo
Lorien


Feb 26 2013, 7:47pm

Post #16 of 32 (292 views)
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well... [In reply to] Can't Post

The Hobbit films and the Lord of the Rings films are the same Universe. Why would PJ get Ian Mckellen, Elijah Wood, Hugo Weaving, and Cate Blanchet back if didin't care about continuity? And it's great because in doing so we gain more beautiful Ian Holm scenes.

So, I think replacing Ian Holm's young Bilbo for Martin Freeman in just that scene in FOTR it's a fair trade. But of course it would have to be a special edition with probably all six films in one collection set.

"The World is Changed, I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air"

(This post was edited by Oscarilbo on Feb 26 2013, 7:48pm)


Dwarvenfury
Lorien

Feb 26 2013, 8:47pm

Post #17 of 32 (263 views)
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well [In reply to] Can't Post

this is certainly interesting. wouldn't that really be special to see
a young bilbo in the prologue of fotr? it would fuse those trilogies even moar!
and the eliciting of young bilbo's journey from the Hobbit through the face of Martin Freeman's
bilbo in the fotr prologue would be pretty cool.
yet, i wonder if they would really view the change as totally necessary. I watched a clip from here on
sound editing or whatever it's called where the Hobbit collaboration spoke of the interpretation of the sound
being better than the literal sound. I wonder if this notion applies here with fotr. in some instances, it may not
be the exact particulars which are of the utmost importance. rather, it is the interpretation. this is one of the entertaining aspect
of the lotr is that relation between a contemporary middle-earth's interpretation of its past alongside with its literal history given to us
viewers in the form of flashbacks. yet we may not always be certain when the flashbacks are interpretive or literal or a combination of both.
in the instance of the gollum's cave and finding of the one ring in fotr prologue, i think the point could be made that its inclusion was not to
give an exposition on how it exactly happened that the ring came to bilbo, but that it did happen. hence the setup for the events surrounding frodo and the
fellowship. so it could be argued that the interpretation is all that is needed in that particular sequence. i don't know wat will happen!


Dwarvenfury
Lorien

Feb 26 2013, 8:52pm

Post #18 of 32 (257 views)
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point [In reply to] Can't Post

this is a good point about having lotr elrond and galadriel and gandalf reprise their roles
for the hobbit. truthfully, it just wouldn't do to have others play their roles! it wouldn't be the same for me.
so getting them back is a boon. that is interesting point to substitue young bilbo for old bilbo in fotr prologue.
it could be a true interchange of characters between the trilogies that way.


sam90
Lorien

Feb 26 2013, 9:32pm

Post #19 of 32 (254 views)
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LOTR scene [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
And during the prologue they need to replace Ian Holm with Martin Freeman finding the ring. That's just my two cents. I'd like to see that.


Agreed. If there is a scene that must be edited in LOTR trilogy is this one. This is a weird inconsistencies. We see Ian Holm finding the Ring in Gollum's cave instead of young Martin Freeman as Bilbo in The Hobbit.


(This post was edited by sam90 on Feb 26 2013, 9:33pm)


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Feb 26 2013, 10:01pm

Post #20 of 32 (227 views)
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Yup, [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm in the fix old Bilbo finding the ring camp, and i'd fix frog Gollum, too.

Not sure how likely this is, though, since both the Theatrical and Extended Editions were just released not that long ago... Maybe the six film box set 10 years down the road?


(This post was edited by sauget.diblosio on Feb 26 2013, 10:06pm)


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Feb 26 2013, 10:03pm

Post #21 of 32 (232 views)
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I think that a replacement would be more distracting than inconsistency... [In reply to] Can't Post

Wouldn't it "take you out of the moment" if you saw Freeman in LotR? And for people who like LotR and don't like The Hobbit it's not very fair.

HOWEVER, I do agree it would be interesting. So as long as PJ gives the choice of edited or unedited versions I can't see any reason not to do it. I think a lot of the rejection of Lucas' decisions is only because he doesn't give his fans any choice.


Glorfindela
Valinor

Feb 26 2013, 11:12pm

Post #22 of 32 (211 views)
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I would change one thing [In reply to] Can't Post

I would replace 'Arwen' running from the Black Riders with Glorfindel. Visually, he is one the memorable characters in FOTR for me, though his part is small a very beautiful Elf, looking something like Thandruil does so far, perhaps.

The rather soppy love story never did much for me, and I was shocked that Glorfindel was omitted.


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Feb 26 2013, 11:18pm

Post #23 of 32 (202 views)
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I can't say for anyone else. [In reply to] Can't Post

I would prefer to see Freeman's Bilbo in that scene just for consistency. It's the prologue and it's not a big deal ultimately, and I don't think LOTR viewers only (which there are not many I would think) would be that distracted by it. Galadriel narrates it and I think it's clear who it is and when it occurred and what's going on.

That's just my take though.


nenyacaster
Bree


Feb 27 2013, 12:06am

Post #24 of 32 (186 views)
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maybe... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think if they included the dialogue in the Council of Elrond where (presumably) Gloin talks about the servants of Mordor coming to Erebor and harassing the dwarves, that would link back to the hobbit. I wouldn't be against shooting a few little episodes of hobbit characters and inserting them into LOTR, as long as it made sense (i.e. Bard was dead, but maybe his son?) Or perhaps Gloin and Bilbo could have a private aside about it.


(This post was edited by nenyacaster on Feb 27 2013, 12:06am)


FrogmortonJustice65
Rivendell


Feb 27 2013, 6:07am

Post #25 of 32 (135 views)
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Nope. [In reply to] Can't Post

Just no. There is no need to alter anything in LOTR. The prologue with Ian Holm is fine --- it would be criminal to cut out Holm's performance, though Freeman's performance is also quite good. Superimposing Gloin seems unnecessary, as does any reference to Dain, whose "last stand" is interesting but not entirely relevant to main plot lines of PJ's ROTK.

The road to George Lucas style Star Wars revisionism is paved with good intentions.

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