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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
This version verses the extended version?
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Feb 25 2013, 6:06pm

Post #1 of 42 (1513 views)
This version verses the extended version? Can't Post

Bomby is an old film editor
... television news in the early 1970s.

on my third viewing it became apparent that some shots and or dialogue seemed missing.
If PJ adds another 40 minutes
Like he did with the Trilogy..
What do you hope to see?

Example: when Gandalf is trying to convince Bilbo to go
And mentions " you're not the Bilbo
He used to know"... maybe there is a dissolve..where we see that infamous market... see a 10 year old Bilbo with Belladonna, Of course this
could only be... 30 seconds long. we also get to see Dan Hannah as a

Another example: more Rivendell and of course the Narsil scene with
Elrond explaining its history in about another 30 seconds..

Sometimes it felt like we were getting a highlight reel?
Ideas anyone


Feb 25 2013, 6:15pm

Post #2 of 42 (865 views)
20-25 minutes longer [In reply to] Can't Post

PJ has confirmed the most it'll be is 25 minutes longer. So still time for lots of new stuff.

Tol Eressea

Feb 25 2013, 6:46pm

Post #3 of 42 (822 views)
The extended version [In reply to] Can't Post

No doubt the extended version will have the Hobbiton scenes where we see Bilbo at the market, trying to avoid both Gandalf and Lobelia Sackville-Baggins and his buying the fish he eventually has for dinner that night. I think Quint from AICN even had a cameo where he sells a fish to Freeman(as Bilbo) and actually that Blog is pretty funny because Freeman sort of insists that Quint's character, who was nameless, get a name so the used the iphone to get the hobbit name generator and come up with Fredegar Chubb. LOL. . We didn't see that scene in the cinema version and I suspect it's going to be in the EE.

(This post was edited by Ham_Sammy on Feb 25 2013, 6:48pm)

Tol Eressea

Feb 25 2013, 7:28pm

Post #4 of 42 (744 views)
Definitely some more Rivendell to come... [In reply to] Can't Post

and I think we all agree it's one of the places where it is really needed - there the Narsil clip we saw in the teaser trailer, and also the scene with Bilbo and Elrond on a balcony in Rivendell that we saw in an early production blog:


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort


Feb 25 2013, 7:51pm

Post #5 of 42 (695 views)
Extended [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah I think the Old Took scene and more Rivendell with Bilbo wandering around would be great to see. Who knows? Maybe they even had a longer scene with the much maligned Azog that helps the whole justification?

Grey Havens

Feb 25 2013, 7:54pm

Post #6 of 42 (670 views)
Versus [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh, I thought this thread was about the music. My mistake.


Feb 25 2013, 8:03pm

Post #7 of 42 (699 views)
If the extended version makes the film flow much better... [In reply to] Can't Post

Then I will finally be on board with this trilogy decision. As of now, AUJ makes me think the 3 film split was a really bad idea.

So much was left hanging in AUJ that really shouldn't have been. Not just things that obviously wont be resolved till the next films, but things that should have been tied up in the narrative of one. It just really seemed like sloppy editing to me, and I can't help but feel it is because of the 3 film split.

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"

Tol Eressea

Feb 25 2013, 8:17pm

Post #8 of 42 (663 views)
I have my doubts it will flow any better [In reply to] Can't Post

I think if you don't think it flows well now I doubt 20 minutes or so of additional material will do it for you. I think you either like it or not at this point. It's certainly worth a look see though to see. As I said we will see bag end scenes I think from before the dwarves come. I do think the Rivendell scenes are going to be important too.

I would be surprised though if the additional material makes a difference as the bulk of the story is out there. I could be wrong obviously. Just trying to be real Smile

Tol Eressea

Feb 25 2013, 8:32pm

Post #9 of 42 (664 views)
What about the "High Fells"? [In reply to] Can't Post

How about the stuff regarding the Nazgul tombs? Not that I'm absolutely dying to see scenes from a completely made-up storyline, but apparently it was kind of a substantial scene. Can't imagine them saving it for film 2, as they're already over the Misty Mountains at that point. And I can't imagine them totally trashing it either, although that seems more likely than moving it to DoS. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

In Reply To
Yeah I think the Old Took scene and more Rivendell with Bilbo wandering around would be great to see. Who knows? Maybe they even had a longer scene with the much maligned Azog that helps the whole justification?

What do you mean by "justification"? I'm not the biggest supporter of the decision to include Azog, but I highly doubt that the filmmakers feel that they need to include extra material in order to "justify" his inclusion to the naysayers. Those of us who do not like Azog but still wish to immerse ourselves in the films are just going to have to accept that he's in, accept that he'll definitely be around for the next film in some capacity, and move on.

(This post was edited by Salmacis81 on Feb 25 2013, 8:37pm)


Feb 25 2013, 8:45pm

Post #10 of 42 (661 views)
We've heard the music for this scene I'm sure... [In reply to] Can't Post

The two minutes or so at the beginning of 'The White Council' on the deluxe album features some absolutely stunning variations of the Rivendell theme. At about 45 seconds the music turns quite sinister briefly, and I presume this is meant to accompany a close up of the depiction of Sauron and Isildur above the shards of Narsil. The gorgeous statement of Bilbo's theme is surely meant to accompany the discussion between Bilbo and Gandalf. If PJ decides to replace this with Shire music, just as he did for the Bullroarer Took scene, I'll be incensed. I mean I love the Shire music don't get me wrong, but we've heard it to death and that full statement of Bilbo's theme on 'Axe or Sword?' is perhaps my favourite moment of the entire soundtrack.


Feb 25 2013, 9:24pm

Post #11 of 42 (619 views)
I'm hoping to see [In reply to] Can't Post

In chronological order........

-Maybe a slightly extended prologue where we see more of Erebor and more backstory about Thorin's father and grandfather.

-The market scenes everyone is talking about in Hobbiton including Bilbo buying the fish we see him eating later from "Chubb". I also heard that Bilbo avoids Gandalf while he is at the market.

-Young Bilbo (i.e. 10 years old) and the Old Took's midsummer party. Therefore we will get to see more of Gandalf's fireworks. I know this was filmed as I have seen pictures with more fireworks etc. Also in the Hobbit Chronicles art and design book they describe this scene in quite a lot of detail. It says- at teh party in an orchard near the lake there are tents set up and there is a punch and judy show for the kids and fireworks (Gandalf's!!) and beer for the parents. Gandalf plays a trick and pulls a dragon out of his sleeve. All the children run away except young bilbo who is intrigued by the dragon giving Gandalf the impression of a courageous hobbit.

-Maybe a little more Radagast. Including the high fells scene where they discover the tombs of the Nazgul. This looks really interesting in the chronicles book.

-More Rivendell.

-More Goblin King and goblin scribe. I read somewhere the scribe actually got a line of dialogue which will be in the EE.

-Extended chase out of Goblin scene (already seen bits of this in the trailer).

-More riddles between Gollum and Bilbo.

And I think thats about it!!!! It might be nice to see a few extra shots of the eagles flying around the mountains though, that bit was stunning.


Feb 25 2013, 9:25pm

Post #12 of 42 (618 views)
Unlike LOTR [In reply to] Can't Post

I think this movie is mostly fine as it is. The only things I think could be added are a bit more character development for the dwarves and the stuff with Bilbo in Rivendell. The market scene actually sounds redundant...I hope it's more than just Bilbo looking out for Gandalf, and the Sackville Bagginses were already introduced in the second prologue with Ian Holm and Elijah Wood. It's also been confirmed that the Great Goblin will have more scenes...don't want that either, as I didn't like his performance.

Hamfast of Gamwich

Feb 25 2013, 9:27pm

Post #13 of 42 (679 views)
Other scenes we know were shot: [In reply to] Can't Post

The Little Goblin taking the message to Azog.
More dwarves clowning around in Rivendell. I expect the 'sausage scene' will be expanded.


Feb 25 2013, 10:25pm

Post #14 of 42 (553 views)
Editing [In reply to] Can't Post

Editing is a thought-provoking topic. Sometimes it is interesting
to ponder the different options with AUJ. IMO there really is a lot
in it, or at least it comes across that way considering its presentation.
I believe I saw a clip where Richard Armitage spoke to the certain pace and flow to
this film and being drained after an initial viewing. This is interesting too because i think what
contributes to this is not always so much the number of plots or scenes included but how the gaps
linking the scenes are used. for me, from memory, auj didn't seem to have many gaps and transitional
setups. there were setups and transitions but didn't take whole sequences to set up another. thus the transitions
became subplots themselves. two sequences come to my mind in my own sequential organization of the film:
1.) the gap between bilbo getting a pony after coming from shire and the troll squence. This gap is realized by the
battle of azunulbizar and intro to azog. 2.) this gap or transition is between the troll sequence/swords and the rivendell
arrival. this scene is realized by radagast and his warg chase and dol guldor scene.

these transitions get the narrative from one major traditional point to the next...from the shire to the trolls and then from the barrow swords to Rivendell.
I'm not exactly sure what is traditionally used in these transitions in the book. But withouth something to bridge these events together, how would the film version
go? What is going to pull this narrative along? How does the film find the impetus to move from the trolls to rivendell? wat gets them moving? lol.
This could be why battles/azog and radagast/orc chase were put in those transitional gaps...to pull the narrative along. the thing though, is that these gaps are filled
by key subplots, so a transition from one sequence to another comes in the form of another sequence. thus a lot happens in the course of the movie. the film keeps itself moving
along and along, and i think it asks its viewer to come along for the ride and move along with the movie as it is going to take one on a crazy ride Wink.
just my, or maybe not, 2 cents.
hope you enjoyed the drivel.


Feb 25 2013, 10:34pm

Post #15 of 42 (588 views)
Picture this! [In reply to] Can't Post

Bilbo, Elrond at the balcony
Looking down at a medieval dance party
60 or so elves..& ..Elve-ettes
Elve-kiddies running around?

Similar to the medieval dance in "A Knights Tale "
(2001. .Heath Ledger, Mark Addy, Rufus Sewell)

Our 13 on another Balcony In Rivendell
with their Jaws Agape!

Likely this scenario could?..happen
at the ElvenKing's hall..

But you never know Whatzz PJ&CO
Havessss up
Their... LONG Sleeves...

Xoxo Bomby


Feb 25 2013, 11:24pm

Post #16 of 42 (513 views)
The things I hope to see [In reply to] Can't Post

(I have adapted this from your post.)

1. More of Erebor and more backstory about Thorin's father and grandfather. Generally more of Thorin, please.

2. Maybe a little more Radagast. Including the high fells scene where they discover the tombs of the Nazgul. This looks really interesting in the chronicles book.

3. Perhaps some stuff about the Necromancer and the Angmar king I find that fascinating and am looking forward to seeing what is done with it.

4. More Rivendell (perhaps).

5. Extended chase out of Goblin scene.

6. More riddles between Gollum and Bilbo. (I would definitely prefer this to more scenes from the Shire, which I don't find that interesting, although it is beautifully detailed. However, there is enough of the Shire in the film already.)

7. More Eagles.

No more scenes from the Shire.

Tol Eressea

Feb 25 2013, 11:29pm

Post #17 of 42 (521 views)
high fells [In reply to] Can't Post

I am honestly not sure we will see the high fells or Radagast any more until DOS.

My reasoning is that Saruman asks at the white council, "What proof do we have that this weapon came from Angmar's grave?"

To which Gandalf replies, "I have none."

Now, if the tomb had been unsealed and Gandalf saw it, then there would be no doubt in my mind that he would have mentioned it at the council, as he is very concerned about the growing shadow.

It is possible that he rode to the high fells while the company traveled toward what we now know is Goblintown, but in my mind that would have not given Gandalf enough time to: ride to the high fells, discover Angmar's grave split open, ride back to Rivendell to let the council know, AND manage to not only find thirteen dwarves and a hobbit in a gigantic mountain range during a storm, but also manage to be there in time to free them before anyone is tortured. Unless Gandalf secretly implanted the dwarves with some kind of homing beacon or GPS chip, I don't think he would have had enough time to accomplish the high fells.

Of course, he could have ridden a horse while the company was on foot, but I still somehow don't see it in the EE of AUJ. I think the Dol Guldor stuff will be explored more in DOS because as much as I would LOVE to see as much of the dwarves as possible, I can't imagine the first entire hour of DOS being dwarves

more walking.....
STILL more walking......
grumbling but still walking....

So I think that the high fells will end up being filler for the time that Gandalf is separated from the company while they travel through Mirkwood

Half Elven Daughter of Celethian of the Woodland Realm

Lieutenant of Dol Guldur

Feb 25 2013, 11:48pm

Post #18 of 42 (499 views)
I'm still hoping for an Estel cameo during that scene ;-) [In reply to] Can't Post

It has been discussed a lot.. will there be an Estel cameo or not. At this moment there is none. But perhaps they let a human boy running through Rivendell while Elrond and Bilbo are talking about Narsil? Just for the fans. There's no need for an explanation who this Estel is because the fans will know it.

"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."

(This post was edited by Lieutenant of Dol Guldur on Feb 25 2013, 11:48pm)


Feb 26 2013, 12:07am

Post #19 of 42 (490 views)
I think we will see High fells in the EE because.... [In reply to] Can't Post

.....I have read several times in different places that this scene was meant to take place after Rivendell and before Gandalf reaches the mountains. He and Radagast are meant to go there together which would also make more sense for Radagast because he kind of just disappears in the theatrical edition without explanation.

Do you remember a line while Gandalf is talking to Galadriel after the main council meeting where she says to him "The riddle of the Morgul blade must be answered". Well I think we can take that as proof that he will investigate the tombs after the white council meeting therefore it will make sense to put it in the EE.

As for Gandalf not having enough time to get back to the misty mountains.............films work in mysterious ways, and I doubt that would make PJ decide not to do it given his track record. This kind of thing, for the record doesn't bother me to be honest. I have always felt that in films it is ok to play around with time more.

Tol Eressea

Feb 26 2013, 12:17am

Post #20 of 42 (473 views)
Can't see that happening. [In reply to] Can't Post

Rivendell lies right outside the bounds of the area once known as Rhudaur, where the High Fells are supposed to be located. So the High Fells might not be as far from Rivendell as you think, and like you said, Gandalf has a horse. He will likely have plenty of time to travel to Rhudaur while Bilbo and the dwarves trek over and into the mountains. That would show much more geographical continuity than having Gandalf backtrack over the Misty Mountains in DoS.

Besides, Gandalf already has somewhere to be when the group enters Mirkwood (Dol Guldur). And I think that including the High Fells and Dol Guldur in the same film might cause some confusion to the average viewer.

(This post was edited by Salmacis81 on Feb 26 2013, 12:19am)


Feb 26 2013, 1:44am

Post #21 of 42 (460 views)
Elven Nobles [In reply to] Can't Post

There are many scenes I would like to see extended in EE including all the standard fare like Hobbiton market and Bilbo with Elrond. Above all I hope there is a bit more with the Elven cavalry. The scene was one of my personal favorites and were but flashes of action. I have hope that more of the knights will be seen and maybe a hint at Elladan and Elrohir or Glorfindel among the Rivendell nobles.

Tol Eressea

Feb 26 2013, 4:49am

Post #22 of 42 (415 views)
I'm hoping that the extra 20-25 minutes gives the film... [In reply to] Can't Post

...a bit more space, so that that it feels more like a journey, and not so rushed. The last third of the movie especially needs to stretch it's legs quite a bit. To me, everything after Rivendell feels like only a day or two. This is something that the theatrical version of Fellowship did a LOT better (and the EE helped even more).


Feb 26 2013, 8:52am

Post #23 of 42 (360 views)
More Hobbiton.... [In reply to] Can't Post

.. especially the scene described in the art book, in which Gandalf first encounters a young Bilbo...

More Rivendell...

Just more!


Feb 26 2013, 2:34pm

Post #24 of 42 (322 views)
Little Goblin? [In reply to] Can't Post

How do you know about that little goblin scene? Is that really confirmed by someone?


Feb 26 2013, 2:55pm

Post #25 of 42 (312 views)
The problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Isn't he in his twenties when Bilbo is in Rivendell? That would mean they'd have to use the same actor, who is now much older than he was even in LOTR.

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