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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
racist

Cirashala
Gondor

Feb 20 2013, 10:02pm


Views: 186
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racist [In reply to] Can't Post

I would say that Thorin is racist toward elves, because he blames all elves for the wrongs of few elves against his people. I can say that he has not met every single elf in Middle Earth, so why would he think all elves are bad unless he is making a generalization?

As far as Bilbo, I do not think that his comment "descendant of rats" is racist in the slightest. It's no different than calling someone a son of a b****, you are not racially slurring them, you are simply insulting them and using their mother as part of the insult. It isn't racist IMO.

As far as the elves, I do not recall (though I admit I am no expert so I could be mistaken) that Thranduil has any sort of claim on the treasure. Bard most definitely does, but I do not recall Thranduil having any claim, unless perhaps a small recompense for any elves that Smaug may have eaten in his tenure in Erebor. To show up with an army is NOT the best way to negotiate in the slightest, and in that respect I think Thorin was right to say remove the elven army and then we can negotiate. I think Bard's claims are justified and had the elves not shown up with an army Thorin may have been more willing to talk to Bard.

As to the imprisonment of the dwarves, I think that (and this may earn me some haters on here but oh well) Thranduil had every right to imprison them, though maybe not for as long as he did. In his mind, they had entered his realm without permission essentially trespassing, they jumped uninvited into his people's parties heavily armed and the last one with Thranduil (royalty) present (how were the elves supposed to know they were begging? They didn't get a word in before the lights went out), they roused the spiders who weren't discriminate in that they surely would have attacked the elves as well as dwarves being enemies of both, and when finally questioned after all that, they didn't give him any answers. It is possible that had they told him the truth, he may have still imprisoned them in which case yes it would have been wrong, but by not saying anything he had no way to tell if they were assassins attempting to attack his people, or why they trespassed and if it was good reason or not, etc.

Honestly, Thranduil, while there are flaws in his character, was well within his right to imprison them (though not as long as he did). I know there are people from many different countries on here, so put in your respective political leader, whether it be a monarch or president or prime minister, etc. If a group of heavily armed strangers suddenly crashed a party where said political leader was in attendance, wouldn't they be guaranteed jail time if they were lucky? If someone enters a country illegally, wouldn't they be charged with a crime in that regards? If the answer is yes, as I believe all those on here would agree, then why should we think the dwarves would be allowed after all they did to just simply walk free? Perhaps Thranduil could have escorted them to his borders and warned them not to come back, but still I think I can somewhat justify their actions. In TT when Eomer comes across Legolas, Gimli, and Aragorn, he risks death by not bringing them in front of King Theoden to get permission to wander his lands, and yet no one gets mad at Theoden for demanding permission to wander his realm. Why should we get mad at Thranduil for demanding them to be brought before him? It's the same thing I think, except for like I mentioned earlier, the dwarves' actions may have warranted more suspicion and arrest.

Half Elven Daughter of Celethian of the Woodland Realm

Subject User Time
What if you were in Thorin´s situation (Spoilers) Marionette Send a private message to Marionette Feb 19 2013, 5:49pm
    Yes, I think it's complicated utku Send a private message to utku Feb 19 2013, 6:07pm
        I can see why Thorin felt betrayed Ham_Sammy Send a private message to Ham_Sammy Feb 19 2013, 10:46pm
    Yeah CathrineB Send a private message to CathrineB Feb 19 2013, 6:45pm
    I would give Bard his part of the treasure little mouse Send a private message to little mouse Feb 19 2013, 6:56pm
        Dwarves can turn violent Marionette Send a private message to Marionette Feb 19 2013, 9:57pm
    This is what makes him interesting Rostron2 Send a private message to Rostron2 Feb 19 2013, 7:12pm
        Aragorn had flaws? Old Toby Send a private message to Old Toby Feb 19 2013, 10:42pm
            Fully agree about that Marionette Send a private message to Marionette Feb 20 2013, 11:10pm
    I'd like to say... Angharad73 Send a private message to Angharad73 Feb 19 2013, 7:42pm
        I would have done the same too. ShireHorse Send a private message to ShireHorse Feb 19 2013, 8:04pm
    Nope, he's a jerk stoutfiles Send a private message to stoutfiles Feb 19 2013, 7:49pm
        I've said this before... macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Feb 19 2013, 8:02pm
        There is a dragon illness macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Feb 19 2013, 8:06pm
            So? stoutfiles Send a private message to stoutfiles Feb 19 2013, 8:26pm
                Why? macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Feb 19 2013, 8:39pm
                Thorin is admittedly a much more attractive character in the film but... ShireHorse Send a private message to ShireHorse Feb 19 2013, 8:49pm
                I think it's a bit more complex than that. Roheryn Send a private message to Roheryn Feb 19 2013, 9:23pm
                    I see shades of grey here Lusitano Send a private message to Lusitano Feb 19 2013, 9:33pm
                        *pffffffffftt* Roheryn Send a private message to Roheryn Feb 19 2013, 10:30pm
                    Well said, everyone should read this post. // macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Feb 19 2013, 9:59pm
                    The situation is, oh gosh, complicated! Marionette Send a private message to Marionette Feb 19 2013, 10:09pm
                    Being angry is not just cause for murder. stoutfiles Send a private message to stoutfiles Feb 19 2013, 10:47pm
                        No, of course not. Roheryn Send a private message to Roheryn Feb 20 2013, 2:15am
                            not only does he not toss him Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Feb 20 2013, 2:53am
                                Wow! Gelir Send a private message to Gelir Feb 20 2013, 12:07pm
                                    My thoughts entirerly macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Feb 20 2013, 12:33pm
                                        Agreed Gelir Send a private message to Gelir Feb 21 2013, 1:35pm
                                    I've always defended Thorin, Gelir....... ShireHorse Send a private message to ShireHorse Feb 20 2013, 1:00pm
                                        Couldn't agree more Gelir Send a private message to Gelir Feb 21 2013, 1:44pm
                                It doesn't take much stoutfiles Send a private message to stoutfiles Feb 20 2013, 1:10pm
                                    I dont think imin Send a private message to imin Feb 20 2013, 3:18pm
                                    How is "descendant of rats"... macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Feb 20 2013, 4:22pm
                            He was going to stoutfiles Send a private message to stoutfiles Feb 20 2013, 1:03pm
                        This is your mistake macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Feb 20 2013, 9:49am
                            Haha stoutfiles Send a private message to stoutfiles Feb 20 2013, 12:54pm
                                Well, your argument are for sure not sound. macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Feb 20 2013, 4:17pm
                                    The reasons why are complicated stoutfiles Send a private message to stoutfiles Feb 20 2013, 4:24pm
                                        There is no point in debating this with you macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Feb 20 2013, 4:34pm
                                            The book is resolute stoutfiles Send a private message to stoutfiles Feb 20 2013, 4:58pm
                                            Some people entmaiden Send a private message to entmaiden Feb 20 2013, 6:44pm
                                                As a moderator stoutfiles Send a private message to stoutfiles Feb 20 2013, 7:04pm
                                                    I presented your arguments from this thread in my post macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Feb 20 2013, 7:55pm
                                                    Maybe it's not about you entmaiden Send a private message to entmaiden Feb 20 2013, 11:59pm
                                                Yes, it is better to walk away macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Feb 20 2013, 8:13pm
                                        racist Cirashala Send a private message to Cirashala Feb 20 2013, 10:02pm
                            ... BalrogTrainer Send a private message to BalrogTrainer Feb 20 2013, 1:12pm
        Dwarves can turn violent, but what if you were him then? Marionette Send a private message to Marionette Feb 19 2013, 10:04pm
    I actually wonder if part of the stone giants scene is foreshadowing... Username4242 Send a private message to Username4242 Feb 19 2013, 7:54pm
    Yes book Thorin is certainly a misunderstood character Radagast-Aiwendil Send a private message to Radagast-Aiwendil Feb 19 2013, 10:12pm
    I agree Glorfindela Send a private message to Glorfindela Feb 20 2013, 12:00am
    from the dragon's viewpoint... swordwhale Send a private message to swordwhale Feb 20 2013, 5:32am
    "In Defense of Thorin Oakenshield" Loresilme Send a private message to Loresilme Feb 20 2013, 6:40pm
        Thanks for the link Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Feb 20 2013, 7:07pm
        That is a fantastic essay on Thorin's character. Thank you for the link // macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Feb 20 2013, 7:59pm
        Great essay! Thanks! Old Toby Send a private message to Old Toby Feb 20 2013, 8:53pm
        Very good article! Marionette Send a private message to Marionette Feb 20 2013, 11:26pm
        Thank you for this link. GloryBox Send a private message to GloryBox Feb 21 2013, 12:43am
        Great link! Súlimë Send a private message to Súlimë Feb 21 2013, 5:58am
    A quote I found very accurate from the "In defence of Thorin Oakenshield" macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Feb 20 2013, 8:25pm
        Suddenly many realize about that once *spoilers* Marionette Send a private message to Marionette Feb 20 2013, 11:47pm
    IMO marillaraina Send a private message to marillaraina Feb 20 2013, 11:58pm
        I agree Old Toby Send a private message to Old Toby Feb 21 2013, 3:30am

 
 
 

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