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Cirashala
Bree
Feb 20, 10:02pm
Views: 166
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I would say that Thorin is racist toward elves, because he blames all elves for the wrongs of few elves against his people. I can say that he has not met every single elf in Middle Earth, so why would he think all elves are bad unless he is making a generalization?
As far as Bilbo, I do not think that his comment "descendant of rats" is racist in the slightest. It's no different than calling someone a son of a b****, you are not racially slurring them, you are simply insulting them and using their mother as part of the insult. It isn't racist IMO.
As far as the elves, I do not recall (though I admit I am no expert so I could be mistaken) that Thranduil has any sort of claim on the treasure. Bard most definitely does, but I do not recall Thranduil having any claim, unless perhaps a small recompense for any elves that Smaug may have eaten in his tenure in Erebor. To show up with an army is NOT the best way to negotiate in the slightest, and in that respect I think Thorin was right to say remove the elven army and then we can negotiate. I think Bard's claims are justified and had the elves not shown up with an army Thorin may have been more willing to talk to Bard.
As to the imprisonment of the dwarves, I think that (and this may earn me some haters on here but oh well) Thranduil had every right to imprison them, though maybe not for as long as he did. In his mind, they had entered his realm without permission essentially trespassing, they jumped uninvited into his people's parties heavily armed and the last one with Thranduil (royalty) present (how were the elves supposed to know they were begging? They didn't get a word in before the lights went out), they roused the spiders who weren't discriminate in that they surely would have attacked the elves as well as dwarves being enemies of both, and when finally questioned after all that, they didn't give him any answers. It is possible that had they told him the truth, he may have still imprisoned them in which case yes it would have been wrong, but by not saying anything he had no way to tell if they were assassins attempting to attack his people, or why they trespassed and if it was good reason or not, etc.
Honestly, Thranduil, while there are flaws in his character, was well within his right to imprison them (though not as long as he did). I know there are people from many different countries on here, so put in your respective political leader, whether it be a monarch or president or prime minister, etc. If a group of heavily armed strangers suddenly crashed a party where said political leader was in attendance, wouldn't they be guaranteed jail time if they were lucky? If someone enters a country illegally, wouldn't they be charged with a crime in that regards? If the answer is yes, as I believe all those on here would agree, then why should we think the dwarves would be allowed after all they did to just simply walk free? Perhaps Thranduil could have escorted them to his borders and warned them not to come back, but still I think I can somewhat justify their actions. In TT when Eomer comes across Legolas, Gimli, and Aragorn, he risks death by not bringing them in front of King Theoden to get permission to wander his lands, and yet no one gets mad at Theoden for demanding permission to wander his realm. Why should we get mad at Thranduil for demanding them to be brought before him? It's the same thing I think, except for like I mentioned earlier, the dwarves' actions may have warranted more suspicion and arrest.
Half Elven Daughter of Celethian of the Woodland Realm
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Subject
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User
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Time
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What if you were in Thorin´s situation (Spoilers)
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Marionette
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Feb 19, 5:49pm
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Yes, I think it's complicated
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utku
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Feb 19, 6:07pm
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I can see why Thorin felt betrayed
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Ham_Sammy
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Feb 19, 10:46pm
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Yeah
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CathrineB
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Feb 19, 6:45pm
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I would give Bard his part of the treasure
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little mouse
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Feb 19, 6:56pm
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Dwarves can turn violent
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Marionette
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Feb 19, 9:57pm
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This is what makes him interesting
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Rostron2
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Feb 19, 7:12pm
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Aragorn had flaws?
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Old Toby
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Feb 19, 10:42pm
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Fully agree about that
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Marionette
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Feb 20, 11:10pm
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I'd like to say...
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Angharad73
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Feb 19, 7:42pm
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I would have done the same too.
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ShireHorse
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Feb 19, 8:04pm
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Nope, he's a jerk
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stoutfiles
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Feb 19, 7:49pm
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I've said this before...
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macfalk
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Feb 19, 8:02pm
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There is a dragon illness
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macfalk
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Feb 19, 8:06pm
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So?
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stoutfiles
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Feb 19, 8:26pm
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Why?
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macfalk
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Feb 19, 8:39pm
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Thorin is admittedly a much more attractive character in the film but...
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ShireHorse
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Feb 19, 8:49pm
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I think it's a bit more complex than that.
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Roheryn
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Feb 19, 9:23pm
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I see shades of grey here
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Lusitano
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Feb 19, 9:33pm
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*pffffffffftt*
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Roheryn
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Feb 19, 10:30pm
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Well said, everyone should read this post. //
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macfalk
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Feb 19, 9:59pm
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The situation is, oh gosh, complicated!
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Marionette
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Feb 19, 10:09pm
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Being angry is not just cause for murder.
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stoutfiles
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Feb 19, 10:47pm
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No, of course not.
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Roheryn
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Feb 20, 2:15am
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not only does he not toss him
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Brethil
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Feb 20, 2:53am
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Wow!
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Gelir
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Feb 20, 12:07pm
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My thoughts entirerly
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macfalk
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Feb 20, 12:33pm
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Agreed
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Gelir
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Feb 21, 1:35pm
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I've always defended Thorin, Gelir.......
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ShireHorse
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Feb 20, 1:00pm
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Couldn't agree more
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Gelir
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Feb 21, 1:44pm
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It doesn't take much
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stoutfiles
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Feb 20, 1:10pm
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I dont think
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imin
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Feb 20, 3:18pm
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How is "descendant of rats"...
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macfalk
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Feb 20, 4:22pm
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He was going to
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stoutfiles
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Feb 20, 1:03pm
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This is your mistake
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macfalk
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Feb 20, 9:49am
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Haha
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stoutfiles
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Feb 20, 12:54pm
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Well, your argument are for sure not sound.
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macfalk
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Feb 20, 4:17pm
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The reasons why are complicated
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stoutfiles
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Feb 20, 4:24pm
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There is no point in debating this with you
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macfalk
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Feb 20, 4:34pm
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The book is resolute
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stoutfiles
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Feb 20, 4:58pm
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Some people
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entmaiden
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Feb 20, 6:44pm
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As a moderator
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stoutfiles
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Feb 20, 7:04pm
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I presented your arguments from this thread in my post
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macfalk
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Feb 20, 7:55pm
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Maybe it's not about you
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entmaiden
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Feb 20, 11:59pm
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Yes, it is better to walk away
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macfalk
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Feb 20, 8:13pm
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racist
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Cirashala
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Feb 20, 10:02pm
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...
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BalrogTrainer
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Feb 20, 1:12pm
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Dwarves can turn violent, but what if you were him then?
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Marionette
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Feb 19, 10:04pm
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I actually wonder if part of the stone giants scene is foreshadowing...
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Username4242
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Feb 19, 7:54pm
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Yes book Thorin is certainly a misunderstood character
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Radagast-Aiwendil
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Feb 19, 10:12pm
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I agree
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Glorfindela
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Feb 20, 12:00am
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from the dragon's viewpoint...
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swordwhale
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Feb 20, 5:32am
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"In Defense of Thorin Oakenshield"
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Loresilme
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Feb 20, 6:40pm
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Thanks for the link
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Brethil
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Feb 20, 7:07pm
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That is a fantastic essay on Thorin's character. Thank you for the link //
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macfalk
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Feb 20, 7:59pm
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Great essay! Thanks!
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Old Toby
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Feb 20, 8:53pm
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Very good article!
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Marionette
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Feb 20, 11:26pm
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Thank you for this link.
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GloryBox
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Feb 21, 12:43am
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Great link!
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Súlimë
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Feb 21, 5:58am
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A quote I found very accurate from the "In defence of Thorin Oakenshield"
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macfalk
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Feb 20, 8:25pm
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Suddenly many realize about that once *spoilers*
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Marionette
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Feb 20, 11:47pm
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IMO
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marillaraina
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Feb 20, 11:58pm
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I agree
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Old Toby
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Feb 21, 3:30am
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