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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
So, we've seen Dwarf-women. How about Orc-women?
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Lio
Lorien


Feb 20 2013, 8:53pm

Post #1 of 48 (1296 views)
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So, we've seen Dwarf-women. How about Orc-women? Can't Post

First of all, I would like to say that I think the designers did an amazing job with designing the Dwarf-women! Even though we've only glimpsed them briefly so far, I was quite impressed. It must have been a hard job because having beards could make them look silly if not done right, some goofy thing played for comic relief. But I think they looked marvellous. Well done, design team! Cool Anyway, I wonder if we'll see more Dwarf-women later on. Maybe a cameo by Mrs Glóin, AKA Gimli's mom? (I know it's been mentioned that Glóin carries around a locket with a picture of her and their son. Aww! Heart)

This also brings me to another subject, namely will see Orc-women as well? So far they're the only females of the humanoid races that haven't been shown. Of course since in the story Orcs are encountered in wars rather than day-to-day "domestic" situations, there probably won't be much of an opportunity for it. But I can't help but wonder. Hmm, maybe Azog has a treasured picture of his wife and Bolg as well? Hah, that would be so weird. Laugh

Want to chat? AIM me at Yami Liokaiser!


Old Toby
Gondor


Feb 20 2013, 8:56pm

Post #2 of 48 (746 views)
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I thought orcs were 'hatched' like the Uruk-hai? [In reply to] Can't Post

In any case...the visual I have of orc women is just....wrong! Cool

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)


DanielLB
Immortal


Feb 20 2013, 9:02pm

Post #3 of 48 (744 views)
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Tolkien wrote a number of different origins [In reply to] Can't Post

Wikipedia does an ok job of summarising it.

Smile


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Feb 20 2013, 9:27pm

Post #4 of 48 (714 views)
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Saruman's alchemical pits were a movie invention... [In reply to] Can't Post

Jackson had to show Saruman creating his army of Uruk-hai quickly, but Tokien did indicate that Goblins and greater Orcs do breed. So, yes, there should be goblin-women and young, and I'm surprised if none were visible in Goblin-town if we look close enough.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Feb 20 2013, 9:27pm)


Marionette
Rohan


Feb 20 2013, 11:05pm

Post #5 of 48 (656 views)
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Someone had a son with Azog! XD [In reply to] Can't Post

Laugh
Female dwarves in the movie are OK, but I think Orcs-women should look like male orcs, just like animals are.

I find a bit annoying when in movies or more realistic cartoons they make females to look way too feminine (Adding breast to a bird XD or a cat, lips, eye-lashes Gosh...)

Sorry, but I do.


"Dear friend good bye, no tears in my eyes. So sad it ends, as it began"
Queen



Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Gondor


Feb 20 2013, 11:35pm

Post #6 of 48 (607 views)
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Just like animals?? [In reply to] Can't Post

I didn't know that female and male animals look the same. Let's see...

Birds: peacock and hen (only one is colourful)
Mammals: deer and hind (just one with a pair of antlers), lion and lioness (only one with a mane)
Insects: mantis and male (female is much larger than the male)
Spiders
: black widow and male (female is much larger than the male)
Fish: white shark and male (female is much larger than the male)

Why all this? Because I think IF there are female orcs you might be able to notice their gender. Perhaps it is not easy but I met men who looked like women and women who looked like men ;) But I prefer the idea that orcs, uruks, trolls and goblins have no gender. They were bred or/and corrupted creations of Morgoth and Sauron. They were created to destroy, fight and kill and not to build their own civilizations what they did when neither Morgoth nor Sauron was there after the Battle of the Last Alliance. They built Gundabad and they built Goblin Town.


"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."


Marionette
Rohan


Feb 20 2013, 11:58pm

Post #7 of 48 (586 views)
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They do [In reply to] Can't Post

I know some animals differs, but people who doesn´t know such differences, exclude the obvious ones (Lions, deers, peacock, chickens) they just can´t define males from females.
And even with those differences they look very close to each other not like humans (again I recall the movies and cartoons, female birds, cats, and *fishes* with breasts.. XD)

In my opinion Orcs, or orc-women should be like animals, they look the same, or difficult to define.

Orcs breed just like elves.


"Dear friend good bye, no tears in my eyes. So sad it ends, as it began"
Queen



Kimtc
Rohan


Feb 21 2013, 2:35am

Post #8 of 48 (553 views)
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Ick. No, wait. Yeah, just ick. [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not seeing it. Trying, but I'm willing to believe orcs practice reverse immaculate conception.


Lio
Lorien


Feb 21 2013, 3:14am

Post #9 of 48 (587 views)
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An Evening at Mount Gundabad (I apologize in advance) [In reply to] Can't Post

You know, somehow I get the feeling that Orcs feel the same about the other races. And so I have dramatized it thus!

***

BOLG: Dad, where do babies come from?

AZOG: Well, when a handsome Orc lad and a pretty Orc lass love each other very much...

BOLG: No! Yazneg already told me about that. I meant Elf babies! And Dwarf babies!

AZOG: There are no Elf or Dwarf babies! They are hatched fully grown from cocoons in mud pits underground. Can you imagine Elf women? Or Dwarf women? Horrid! Disgusting! Vile!

BOLG: But Yazneg said there are Elf and Dwarf women.

AZOG: ...the next time I see Yazneg, I'm feeding him to the Wargs.

MRS AZOG: What are you two lubbers yammering about?

BOLG: Nothing!

AZOG: Nothing!

MRS AZOG: And you! Where's that anniversary present I was promised?

AZOG: Ah, yes, the Dwarf King's head. I'll get that taken care of later. In the meantime, honey, could you pack me some lunch?

MRS AZOG: I'll pack a fist in your gob! Get going NOW!

AZOG: Yes dear.

***

Come to think of it, this is probably the reason Orc-women won't be shown. They don't want us feeling sorry for the villains and the trouble they go through with their wives. Unimpressed

Want to chat? AIM me at Yami Liokaiser!


Old Toby
Gondor


Feb 21 2013, 3:42am

Post #10 of 48 (536 views)
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Okay. You've just given me a visual I need to erase from my mind!! LOL!! [In reply to] Can't Post

"Someone had a son with Azog!"
ShockedFrownTongue

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)

(This post was edited by Old Toby on Feb 21 2013, 3:44am)


arithmancer
Grey Havens

Feb 21 2013, 4:04am

Post #11 of 48 (510 views)
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Thank you!! That was laugh-out-loud funny. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Marionette
Rohan


Feb 21 2013, 4:13am

Post #12 of 48 (538 views)
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And to complete the picture [In reply to] Can't Post

She-orcs with breasts, those sexy lips and eye-lashes

Seriously ... Laugh


"Dear friend good bye, no tears in my eyes. So sad it ends, as it began"
Queen



Eruonen
Tol Eressea


Feb 21 2013, 4:27am

Post #13 of 48 (561 views)
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If you Google "Orc women" images you will see [In reply to] Can't Post

various artists efforts. Most are too fan boy attractive or too comic book style, but a few are interesting:

http://www.nznoldor.com/...male-orc-photos.html

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/...xPQR1lXmWsLrFWp5Pi6K


Old Toby
Gondor


Feb 21 2013, 4:44am

Post #14 of 48 (504 views)
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Aaaaghhhhh!!!!! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
She-orcs with breasts, those sexy lips and eye-lashes

Seriously ... Laugh


(Old Toby runs screaming from the Boards) Sly

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)


Kimtc
Rohan


Feb 21 2013, 4:55am

Post #15 of 48 (529 views)
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This is leading to some rollicking fanfic... [In reply to] Can't Post

Or at least a Middle Earth sitcom.


Roheryn
Grey Havens

Feb 21 2013, 10:13am

Post #16 of 48 (518 views)
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Oh, wait! Sexual selection in orcs! [In reply to] Can't Post

Ha! Never thought I'd get to discuss *this* on TORn.

So, for any given species with sexual reproduction (yes, that is making a bit of an assumption already for orcs, and yes I'm ignoring the whole Isengard hatching orc pods thing), there are three mutually exclusive possibilities: (1) there is no sexual dimorphism (i.e., males and females are the same size and look the same); (2) males are larger, or (3) females are larger. (I'm ignoring the fourth possibility of same size but different looks.)

In species where (1) is true: mating behavior is typically socially monogamous: one male and one female pair together for at least a breeding season, possibly longer; though either sex may seek extra-pair copulations. Competition between males is relatively low (nearly every male has a mate). Females have a relatively low reproductive output (say, <20 offspring, and often more like 1 or 2, per breeding season). In species where (2) is true: males compete with each other for reproductive access to females; bigger males get more mating opportunities. Females have a relatively low reproductive output. In species where (3) is true, females typically have a reproductive output that increases with increasing size (these are often egg-layers, and so not common in mammals): bigger females make more eggs, so the bigger, the better. Competition between males is relatively low.

So, if we could figure out the size differential (if any) between male and female orcs, we could infer something about their mating behavior and reproductive potential, or vice versa. I'd suggest that (3) is unlikely, since orcs are mammals and we wouldn't expect them to lay eggs (c'mon, someone go ahead and argue that they *are* egglayers). Thus (1) or (2) should be true. I suspect social monogamy isn't going to be an orcish strong point -- this is a common strategy only when two parents are needed for raising young -- so I'd suggest that female orcs can raise their young just fine without the dad around. Which is a good thing, I'm guessing, as most male orcs aren't likely to be the paternal type. This leaves (2) as the remaining option -- males are bigger than females, and compete (viciously, and frequently to the death, I'd guess) for reproductive access to females. Bigger males are fiercer and win more often, thus obtaining more mates. Males and females come together, do the dirty, and then the males charge off back to their incessant warmongery, while the females hole back up in their caverns, lairs, whatever, glad to be rid of the males for another year.

So, with that in mind, what does that suggest about Azog? He's HUGE. He ought to have a whole harem back at Gundabad. Or Dol Guldur. Or possibly both, and neither group knows about the other.

And are orc-babies cute?


Glorfindela
Valinor

Feb 21 2013, 10:34am

Post #17 of 48 (483 views)
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To be honest [In reply to] Can't Post

…I don't much care about seeing female Dwarves and Orcs (and, God forbid, children). I'm much more concerned that the existing characters are well developed – which they have been so far. Smile


Bombadil
Half-elven


Feb 21 2013, 11:02am

Post #18 of 48 (479 views)
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What? in Goblintown.. half of those "Thngys"..Were women.. [In reply to] Can't Post

So I NOW
need
to see
the Goblin King's
mom!

WAT..wazz She
Half-Balrog...


(This post was edited by Bombadil on Feb 21 2013, 11:04am)


BoromirOfWinterfell
Rohan


Feb 21 2013, 12:45pm

Post #19 of 48 (451 views)
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I can just imagine [In reply to] Can't Post

Azog showing a picture of his wife and a baby Bolg to one of the other orcs. Getting all soppy over them in Black Speech...even PJ would see that as far-fetched.
Laugh


Quote
Anyway, I wonder if we'll see more Dwarf-women later on


I'm hoping Dis makes an appearance.

Legless Lego Legolas...there is nothing more epic.

"Ten percent of nothin' is ... let me do the math here ... nothin' into nothin' ... carry the nothin' ... " - Jayne from Firefly


Old Toby
Gondor


Feb 21 2013, 3:37pm

Post #20 of 48 (424 views)
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OMG! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

So, if we could figure out the size differential (if any) between male and female orcs, we could infer something about their mating behavior and reproductive potential, or vice versa. I'd suggest that (3) is unlikely, since orcs are mammals and we wouldn't expect them to lay eggs (c'mon, someone go ahead and argue that they *are* egglayers). Thus (1) or (2) should be true. I suspect social monogamy isn't going to be an orcish strong point -- this is a common strategy only when two parents are needed for raising young -- so I'd suggest that female orcs can raise their young just fine without the dad around. Which is a good thing, I'm guessing, as most male orcs aren't likely to be the paternal type. This leaves (2) as the remaining option -- males are bigger than females, and compete (viciously, and frequently to the death, I'd guess) for reproductive access to females. Bigger males are fiercer and win more often, thus obtaining more mates. Males and females come together, do the dirty, and then the males charge off back to their incessant warmongery, while the females hole back up in their caverns, lairs, whatever, glad to be rid of the males for another year.

So, with that in mind, what does that suggest about Azog? He's HUGE. He ought to have a whole harem back at Gundabad. Or Dol Guldur. Or possibly both, and neither group knows about the other.

And are orc-babies cute?


Where do you come up with this stuff, Ro?! Seriously, I'm impressed! Okeydokey then. Yeah, I hardly think male orcs would be the doting father types, especially since they may have the tendency to eat their young. Hah! And if you're right, then there are probably herds (litters? nests? swarms?) of baby Azog-sired orcs running around (in little orc diapers, no doubt) in various locations. A frightening, not to mention disgusting, thought. Which brings me to Bombadil's mention of the Goblin King and his offspring! Ughh! Probably a great deal of the little goblin critters we saw him squish underfoot were his own offspring. I can see goblins and orcs and wargs as species that are cannibalistic and therefore self-destructing. Jeezzz....how did we get onto this topic?? TonguePirate

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)


Rostron2
Gondor


Feb 21 2013, 3:48pm

Post #21 of 48 (408 views)
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No thanks [In reply to] Can't Post

This isn't World of Warcraft. I don't really care about Mrs. Azog or Mrs. Bolg.


Tintallë
Gondor


Feb 21 2013, 5:47pm

Post #22 of 48 (397 views)
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*recoils in horror* Ack! No! [In reply to] Can't Post

I so DO NOT want those mental images!


BoromirOfWinterfell
Rohan


Feb 21 2013, 6:10pm

Post #23 of 48 (417 views)
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Cute widdle baby orcsss.... [In reply to] Can't Post

So, with that in mind, what does that suggest about Azog? He's HUGE. He ought to have a whole harem back at Gundabad. Or Dol Guldur. Or possibly both, and neither group knows about the other.

Quote

Laugh

This is some of the best stuff on orc reproduction yet!
<Bows>

And would orc babies be as ugly as the adults? I've always thought orcs' grotesqueness worsens with age...

Legless Lego Legolas...there is nothing more epic.

"Ten percent of nothin' is ... let me do the math here ... nothin' into nothin' ... carry the nothin' ... " - Jayne from Firefly

(This post was edited by BoromirOfWinterfell on Feb 21 2013, 6:11pm)


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Feb 21 2013, 6:22pm

Post #24 of 48 (399 views)
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Seriously Ro, [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd love to see you expand on this topic and submit a paper to TORN's news page. Go on! *nudge*

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Tintallë
Gondor


Feb 21 2013, 7:17pm

Post #25 of 48 (376 views)
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Blech! Blech, blech, BLECH! Ptui! gaggggggggg. . . // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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