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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Main concern for Desolation of Smaug?
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Feb 20 2013, 8:50pm

Post #1 of 48 (1859 views)
Main concern for Desolation of Smaug? Can't Post

I only have one major concern: Tauriel. I don't want her to get too much screentime or having any forced action scenes involving her and other elves killing spiders in a "cool" way. Other than that, I don't have that many fears: I wonder what they will do with Azog? I'm intrigued to know, I wonder if he'll chase them all the way to the Lonely Mountain, there's a change that I may even welcome.

The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


Feb 20 2013, 8:57pm

Post #2 of 48 (1106 views)
Agree about Tauriel. [In reply to] Can't Post

And feel the same way about Legolas. I don't mind their inclusion by itself, they are a nice way of giving the Mirkwood elves some character, but I do hope the two don't overstay their welcome, taking too much of the spotlight.

As for Azog, it wouldn't surprise me if he catches up with Bilbo and the dwarves for round two, perhaps as the company is making their way towards the mountain after having stopped in Lake-town. An ambush in the ruins of Dale, maybe?


Feb 20 2013, 9:02pm

Post #3 of 48 (1055 views)
The White Council [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm a bit concerned about how they'll handle the White Council/Dol Guldur/Necromancer storyline. It's not in the book which isn't a bad thing in itself, but I hope they handle it in a way that fits in with the rest of the canon and doesn't overwhelm the main story. I also hope that between everything that's going on, Bilbo gets enough screentime. It's called The Hobbit for a reason, after all. Wink

As for Tauriel, I think there probably will be some "cool" action scenes with her (and Legolas) but that doesn't bother me so much. But between all the other characters who need screentime, I hope they don't steal the show.

I also do wonder how they'll handle Azog. From some of the production material floating around, I think I recall seeing Orc battles that look like they're in or around Mirkwood. So I guess he'll continue pusuing our Dwarves. I'm not sure whether it would work having him chase them all the way to Erebor though. What about Smaug?

Want to chat? AIM me at Yami Liokaiser!

Grey Havens

Feb 20 2013, 9:02pm

Post #4 of 48 (1283 views)
Tauriel Integration [In reply to] Can't Post

What if Tauriel saves Bard's life just before he shoots the fatal arrow as someone is about to split his skull open with a sword from behind? She does a peremptory strike, or pushes him out of the way. Maybe even giving her life in the process, as some have suggested. Or not the Bard; someone else important. Something that redirects the heroism to herself in the name of Boyens' "feminine power." Stuff like that that did not happen in the book?


Feb 20 2013, 9:06pm

Post #5 of 48 (1071 views)
The lack of purse-action in AUJ still keeps me up at night. [In reply to] Can't Post

It might be worth just accepting that Tauriel and Legolas will do something "cool", rather than worrying about it. It happened in TTT and ROTK, and *it will* happen in DOS and/or TABA. At least it will be brief. It won't ruin in the entire film (hopefully).

I do hope Stephen Fry as The Master works. Not totally convinced by the costume and what we've heard about him (the character). Whats-his-face sounds very much like Grima, which sounds great.


Feb 20 2013, 9:14pm

Post #6 of 48 (983 views)
Agree with everyone [In reply to] Can't Post

Tauriel is my biggest concern as well. Adding a minor character is alright, but I hope they don't pile up too much story into the character. Also, not really a concern but I am very excited about Smaug's design. I worry a little about it, there is a chance that a talking dragon can feel off (it certainly did in Merlin), so just a little concern design-wise. I can't think of a single design from WETA that has disappointed me in the past though so I'm sure it's nothing to worry about.


Feb 20 2013, 9:28pm

Post #7 of 48 (996 views)
The music [In reply to] Can't Post

My main concern is that there won't be enough new music, and that they will re-use too much of the old music.

Even though i liked the music from AUJ a lot, i still felt at times that there were too many nods to the LOTR soundtrack. But then again, i've always viewed DoS as the real start of The Hobbit trilogy, as we will see most of the new characters/places there (Beorn, Smaug, Mirkwood/Thranduil, Laketown, etc etc) Whereas in AUJ, you still had lots of familiar characters/places from the LOTR trilogy, so i understand why they re-used some of the old music.


Feb 20 2013, 9:28pm

Post #8 of 48 (1004 views)
I dont mind Legolas [In reply to] Can't Post

Strangely enough, I don't. I think he's okay, I even liked the climbing-troll scene and oliphaunt (the shield-surfing was a bit much though). I know you don't like him Daniel Cool, but for me, the worry is about Tauriel because she is a 100% made-up character.

The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


Feb 20 2013, 9:34pm

Post #9 of 48 (986 views)
I'm concerned that DoS may feel too rushed or frenetic... [In reply to] Can't Post

There is a lot of ground to cover in The Desolation of Smaug from the company leaving the Carrock just to reaching Lonely Mountain, even before the dragon is introduced. This is especially true with the addition of Azog's persuit of the company and the inclusion of the White Council and Dol Guldur. There and Back Again might feel downright leisurely by comparison.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Feb 20 2013, 9:44pm

Post #10 of 48 (975 views)
It's a shame [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't "hate" movie-Legolas. I think the film character was let down by both Bloom's performance, and the actual character (which is down to the screenwriters). I very much appreciate that some people do like the portrayal of the character, and that's great. I quite enjoy his stunts in TTT. But in comparison to his book counterpart, film-Legolas just doesn't work. But that same can be said for Gimli, Faramir and Denethor as well.

The worse thing Tauriel could do is have a relationship with one of the Dwarves. As long as they have scrapped that plot, we should be ok. Wink


Feb 20 2013, 10:01pm

Post #11 of 48 (944 views)
Things might get rushed [In reply to] Can't Post

What I like about the three film plan is how things can now breathe and be expanded upon. But I read an interview where Jackson says the barrel sequence happens "fairly early", which I assume is 30 or so minutes in. This makes me feel that events leading up to that will seem rushed. I also don't want it to be shorter, which Philipa said it kind of is compared to AUJ. I like long films.

Lover of Medieval Fantasy
"I know what I must do. It's just... I'm afraid to do it."


Feb 20 2013, 10:18pm

Post #12 of 48 (937 views)
I think she'll at least be friends with ... [In reply to] Can't Post

at least one member of The Company. I theorize it'll be Kili based on his facial expressions of awe and interest (*)in Rivendell in addition to Kili being younger and less close minded about the other beings in ME. He didn't experience what Thorin, Dwalin, Balin did when Erebor was taken by Smaug; he didn't see the Elves turn away and refuse to help his people so he hasn't built up decades of resentment.

* I wrote a comment about this in the last few weeks but watch his face when Lindir comes down the stairs in Rivendell. He looks quite awe struck, interested in this strange creature (to him), while still appearing a bit concerned but nothing like the other Dwarves. Same situation when Elrond and the other Elves arrive on horseback. It seems to me that there is something there/in him completely different from the other Dwarves on screen at the time.

My avatar photo is Lake Tekapo in New Zealand's South Island. Taken by me in 2004 on a Red Carpet Tours LOTR Movie Location Tour. 'Twas the Vacation of a Lifetime!

pictures taken while on the tour are here:

(This post was edited by Kirly on Feb 20 2013, 10:19pm)


Feb 20 2013, 10:22pm

Post #13 of 48 (902 views)
Hmm [In reply to] Can't Post

I do fear that it'll be rushed too.

But my main concern is also that Legolas and Tauriel will overshadow new characters that I'd much rather see. Like Thranduil and Bard. I don't want them to be pushed aside to give Legolas and Tauriel scenes that aren't meant to them.

I also hope the music is a whole lot better. I didn't mind what was in AUJ, but it was so much reuse from LotR. Whatever happened to new music? I don't want to hear Lorien music in Mirkwood. I don't want to hear something fit for Galadriel to Thranduil. Howard Shore is amazing, but AUJ was a let down to allow so much from LotR instead of giving the move it's own music.

Loosing focus on the Company. I understand the need to follow other storylines, but the Company is the main one.

But yes biggest concern is overshadowing the new characters. I don't mind added characters and I never minded Legolas, but I'm by far more curious of his father at this point. We haven't actually seen him before (not thinking of the 10 second cameo man)

Tol Eressea

Feb 20 2013, 10:39pm

Post #14 of 48 (900 views)
That concerns me a bit as well [In reply to] Can't Post

We have to have Beorn's house, the entry into Mirkwood and the spiders. It would be a shame if all that is rushed for Barrels out of Bond. I can't see that happening honestly. I'm not sure what he means by "fairly early on". Maybe he means within the first hour. I hope so. I will say they have a lot of area to cover in one film. Beorn, The Spiders, Thranduil, Laketown then across the DoS to The Lonely Mountain. I have no doubt we will probably see Bilbo take his step and "the bravest thing he's ever done" as he goes down to Smaug's lair.

I really hope it's not rushed. I would rather see them push stuff into film 3 than rush it.


Feb 20 2013, 11:00pm

Post #15 of 48 (1165 views)
Yes, Tauriel is a major concern for me, too [In reply to] Can't Post

I really, really do no want to see any made-up characters in the film, especially one inserted just to include a 'token' Hollywood-style female, although I can tolerate a very brief appearance by a non-book character, I suppose.

Furthermore, any romance between such a character and, for example, a Dwarf, would make me spit and let's face it, a romance between a 4-ft tall Dwarf and 7-ft tall Elf would be completely ridiculous.

There is enough expansion to do on existing characters without adding new ones.

(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Feb 20 2013, 11:01pm)


Feb 20 2013, 11:05pm

Post #16 of 48 (859 views)
I'm wondering [In reply to] Can't Post

what they will leave out of DOS. We all are in agreement that there is a lot of material to be squeezed in an even (possibly) shorter running time than AUJ. So, I feel like something from the book will be drastically cut. If it's Beorn's scene, that would probably be the best one to slim down, if I had to pick one. The others, like Mirkwood and Laketown, seem to integral to the overall plot. Beorn,honestly, could have been cut entirely from the film universe, without any major plot repercussions. I am not saying this should happen or anything. But with the whole Dol Guldor subplot being developed, I just don't think everything from the book canon will make it on screen (at least in the theatrical cut). Expanding greatly with Beorn could work well in the EEs later on.

Of course, ideally all of this fits in nicely in DOS. But, sadly, I have an inkling that this won't be the case.

Tol Eressea

Feb 20 2013, 11:11pm

Post #17 of 48 (856 views)
They have to have some of Beorn in there [In reply to] Can't Post

Beorn has to have some screen time as they probably will have him come to the rescue as he did in the book. It would be weird for him to suddenly show up in TABA at the BoT5A and not know who or what he is. I do agree though they don't need to tarry there at all and need to move on to Mirkwood.


Feb 20 2013, 11:31pm

Post #18 of 48 (844 views)
I can not define [In reply to] Can't Post

I am concern about everything.

Well, maybe how much they will change.

Yeah, Azog and Tauriel intrigues me a lot. I believe Azog must be killed in this second film...

"Dear friend good bye, no tears in my eyes. So sad it ends, as it began"


Feb 20 2013, 11:48pm

Post #19 of 48 (865 views)
It's the small things that bug me [In reply to] Can't Post

My main worries have to do with PJ's constant need to change iconic moments. The troll scene not involving Gandalf's ventriloquism skill, the riddle game changing the wonderful "Time! Time!" moment from the book, and so on. I have no doubt that a handful of wonderful little moments from the book will be altered, not for the better. And then there's the over-the-top action scenes that ignore the laws of physics, etc. I just wish he would trust the source material and couple it with the old adage "less is more."


Feb 21 2013, 12:02am

Post #20 of 48 (982 views)
Concerns. . . rushing, Azog lives, Tauriel beyond Thranduil's kingdom and Dale, a comparatively too weak or subservient Gandalf etc. . . [In reply to] Can't Post

These are my biggest concerns.

I hope this film gets a full three hours, and that complaints about some of the best parts of the last film don't cause them to rush through the errie charm of Beorn's house, nor any expository and debate concerns of The Council.

I do very much hope we get a replant of Gandalf versus The Nine on Amon Sul in Dol Guldur, since he will be going there in this film. And, again, I hope his abilities match those In the book. I also hope, as I have stated elsewhere, that his relationship with Galadriel is more even and more give and take in the advice department, rather than having him seem to do little more than await her instruction and authorization.

Tauriel as a Mirkwood guard doesn't bother me, nor does her having a flirty relationship with Kili. She can join him and Fili in their cell for a night of wild and crazy, orgiastic, cross race wonder sex for all I care, so long as she des not pop up in Dol Guldur, or at Erebor, or anyplace else where she REALLY doesn't belong, and so long as she doesn't eat up more screen time than Thranduil and Beorn.

I want Azog to not make it out of this movie. Whether he catches up to the company at Beorn's hut or on The Borders of Mirkwood, whatever, just so long as Thorin deals with him. Smaug and Sauron, and to a lesser degree Azog's son Bolg, are the great villains (or should be) even of this Rings hybrid expanded Hobbit. Azog has had his moment and far more than his due. It is time to put him aside.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Feb 21 2013, 12:08am

Post #21 of 48 (847 views)
Smaug [In reply to] Can't Post

Smaug is really what the success/failure of the movie is hanging on for me.

Use Well the Days


Feb 21 2013, 12:18am

Post #22 of 48 (818 views)
No concerns [In reply to] Can't Post

whatever will be will be. If i had to guess at things i might not like the main one would be Tauriel. I think they may give her too much screen time or make her into some tough warrior elf who is a smart ass - stereotypical female fighter, though hopefully the writers are better than that.

Other things would be Radagast and legolas - i dont hate legolas but i don't like him - similar to DanielLB and i think the film will be better the less screen time he has. Radagast i think will get a tiny bit less annoying so that's good.

Azog - the worst has happened with him i think at least for DOS so not to fussed there.

Grey Havens

Feb 21 2013, 12:59am

Post #23 of 48 (836 views)
More character moments. [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not really too particular who they're between, though would love to see some between Thorin and the princes. We didn't get all that many character moments in AUJ, but every single one of them stood out as a fantastic bit of acting, and among the best moments of the movie. These scenes give the characters a very welcome depth that we don't get so much from the more dramatic battle scenes and such.

After that? I want a Majestic Hair Competiton: Elves vs. Dwarves. Winner gets a year's supply of the famous (among Dwarves) Blue Mountain Hair Tonic (Guaranteed to Grow Long Hair in Places You Didn't Know You Needed It). Personally, I think the Dwarves would win, but the Elves could give them a run for their money.

Ziggy Stardust

Feb 21 2013, 1:38am

Post #24 of 48 (808 views)
Agree with you on Tauriel [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm concerned about Tauriel too. I'm afraid that they will develop what is supposed to be a very minor character into a major character that will overshadow the more important characters. I'm not into the idea of made-up characters at all. I hope she just comes in, does a part, then steps off. Same with Alfrid. He sounds like Grima, and there is only one Grima and he is in The Lord of the Rings I especially worry that they will pair Legolas and Tauriel up. I'd rather nobody gets paired up, unless they are an item in the books. (Which, in The Hobbit nobody is an item.)

Tol Eressea

Feb 21 2013, 1:50am

Post #25 of 48 (830 views)
Dwarf Hair FTW! [In reply to] Can't Post


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