Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Who gets the Arkenstone?

stoutfiles
Rohan


Feb 20 2013, 1:54pm


Views: 835
Shortcut
Who gets the Arkenstone? Can't Post

The entire Company signed a contract to split the treasure 14 ways. Nowhere in the contract does it state that the Arkenstone is not considered treasure, nor does it state that Thorin has dibs on it.

If the Arkenstone is worth less than 1/14 of the total profits:

Bilbo was legally within his rights to take the Arkenstone. It was shady because he knew that that's what Thorin wanted to claim, but it was never stated as such in the contract. If Thorin wanted it so much, he should have put it in the contract.

Not that the contract says that Bilbo is supposed to be giving "cash", but he is never given dwarven currency Clearly cash represents treasure per the chain of events.

If the Arkenstone is worth more than 1/14 of the total profits:

Bilbo can not take it because it is more than he was allowed to take. But who can take it? Contractually, no one. The stone would have to be sold at market value and the money made added to the total collection, or the stone woud have to be cut down until it reached sizes that were within the 1/14 split.

If the Arkenstone is not part of the treasure:

That is not possible considering Thorin admits defeat. Take it that I have disposed of my share as I wished, and let it go at that!" "I will," said Thorin grimly. "And I will let you go at that-and may we never meet again!" It also appears that the Arkenstone isn't worth more than 1/14 share, as Thorin is able to use his portion to buy back the Arkesntone.

The mithril coat:

Bilbo actually has taken two forms of payment: The Arkenstone AND a mithril coat, which in itself is worth a lot of money. However, Thorin doesn't mention this when Bilbo tells his side of the story, and still admits defeat. This leads me to believe that the coat AND the stone together are still equal to or less than 1/14 share per market value. This also makes sense when Thorin buys back the stone at 1/14 share since he has no bargaining power. It would make sense for him to overpay, not underpay to get the stone back.

Therefore:

I conclude that the Arkenstone's value on the fair market is:

Arkenstone <= (1/14 profits - mithril coat)

I also conclude that Bilbo was legally within his rights to take the stone, however shady it might have been.

Subject User Time
Who gets the Arkenstone? stoutfiles Send a private message to stoutfiles Feb 20 2013, 1:54pm
    There's actually a legal analysis of the contract Kimtc Send a private message to Kimtc Feb 20 2013, 2:55pm
        I'm referring to the book stoutfiles Send a private message to stoutfiles Feb 20 2013, 3:07pm
            Thorin's heritage Glorfindela Send a private message to Glorfindela Feb 20 2013, 3:13pm
                Contracts do not detect personal value stoutfiles Send a private message to stoutfiles Feb 20 2013, 3:21pm
                    I find this "racist" argument amazing. ShireHorse Send a private message to ShireHorse Feb 20 2013, 6:07pm
                        Not the same stoutfiles Send a private message to stoutfiles Feb 20 2013, 6:33pm
                            Shirehorse is right Kirly Send a private message to Kirly Feb 20 2013, 10:55pm
                                If I have a sword in my hand stoutfiles Send a private message to stoutfiles Feb 21 2013, 1:36pm
                                    Adverse possession// Kirly Send a private message to Kirly Feb 21 2013, 6:07pm
                                        Big difference stoutfiles Send a private message to stoutfiles Feb 21 2013, 8:27pm
            Comfortable? Aragalen the Green Send a private message to Aragalen the Green Feb 20 2013, 3:24pm
    Thorin states he has dibs on it DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Feb 20 2013, 3:04pm
    Nice analysis Súlimë Send a private message to Súlimë Feb 20 2013, 3:06pm
        He makes it clear stoutfiles Send a private message to stoutfiles Feb 20 2013, 3:16pm
        Bilbo knew Ham_Sammy Send a private message to Ham_Sammy Feb 20 2013, 3:20pm
    Bilbo knew it was wrong Angharad73 Send a private message to Angharad73 Feb 20 2013, 5:38pm
        He knew it was shady stoutfiles Send a private message to stoutfiles Feb 20 2013, 6:40pm
            is that really so unimportant to you? Kirly Send a private message to Kirly Feb 20 2013, 10:58pm
    Legal under what law? entmaiden Send a private message to entmaiden Feb 20 2013, 6:30pm
        We know what is given to us stoutfiles Send a private message to stoutfiles Feb 20 2013, 6:37pm
            But you're extrapolating entmaiden Send a private message to entmaiden Feb 20 2013, 6:48pm
                No I'm not stoutfiles Send a private message to stoutfiles Feb 20 2013, 6:56pm
                    But surely that is what he DOES say, stoutfiles? ShireHorse Send a private message to ShireHorse Feb 20 2013, 8:37pm
                        The book notes that Thorin wanted all of it Ham_Sammy Send a private message to Ham_Sammy Feb 20 2013, 8:45pm
                    I think that is an opinion rather than something you can know, without Tolkien quotes Kirly Send a private message to Kirly Feb 20 2013, 11:03pm
                        Common sense. stoutfiles Send a private message to stoutfiles Feb 21 2013, 1:40pm
                            More opinion. Where is the proof please? Kirly Send a private message to Kirly Feb 21 2013, 6:13pm
                                Did he not admit defeat stoutfiles Send a private message to stoutfiles Feb 21 2013, 8:30pm
                                    The Arkenstone has different value to different people macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Feb 21 2013, 10:33pm
                    Not to wade into an ants' nest here... Roheryn Send a private message to Roheryn Feb 20 2013, 11:52pm
                        Good point. stoutfiles Send a private message to stoutfiles Feb 21 2013, 1:52pm
        Book vs. film. N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Feb 20 2013, 9:07pm
            Well Ham_Sammy Send a private message to Ham_Sammy Feb 20 2013, 9:18pm
                Oh, I missed this piece of news! DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Feb 20 2013, 9:35pm
                    It's in various video interviews done with the run up to the Hobbit. Ham_Sammy Send a private message to Ham_Sammy Feb 20 2013, 10:16pm
                        Thanks Ham Sammy. I'll look in to it. :-) / DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Feb 20 2013, 10:24pm
                            I posted the link Ham_Sammy Send a private message to Ham_Sammy Feb 20 2013, 10:25pm
            I think Balin has the contract in the movie-universe macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Feb 20 2013, 9:30pm
                That's the way I remember it too... Kirly Send a private message to Kirly Feb 20 2013, 11:09pm
    Morally, it´s Thorin´s but... Marionette Send a private message to Marionette Feb 20 2013, 11:14pm
        Bomby doesn't care? Bombadil Send a private message to Bombadil Feb 21 2013, 9:39am
    Nice lawyering Rostron2 Send a private message to Rostron2 Feb 21 2013, 4:13pm

 
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.