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stoutfiles
Rohan
Feb 20, 1:54pm
Views: 807
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Who gets the Arkenstone?
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Can't Post
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The entire Company signed a contract to split the treasure 14 ways. Nowhere in the contract does it state that the Arkenstone is not considered treasure, nor does it state that Thorin has dibs on it.
If the Arkenstone is worth less than 1/14 of the total profits:
Bilbo was legally within his rights to take the Arkenstone. It was shady because he knew that that's what Thorin wanted to claim, but it was never stated as such in the contract. If Thorin wanted it so much, he should have put it in the contract.
Not that the contract says that Bilbo is supposed to be giving "cash", but he is never given dwarven currency Clearly cash represents treasure per the chain of events.
If the Arkenstone is worth more than 1/14 of the total profits:
Bilbo can not take it because it is more than he was allowed to take. But who can take it? Contractually, no one. The stone would have to be sold at market value and the money made added to the total collection, or the stone woud have to be cut down until it reached sizes that were within the 1/14 split.
If the Arkenstone is not part of the treasure:
That is not possible considering Thorin admits defeat. Take it that I have disposed of my share as I wished, and let it go at that!" "I will," said Thorin grimly. "And I will let you go at that-and may we never meet again!" It also appears that the Arkenstone isn't worth more than 1/14 share, as Thorin is able to use his portion to buy back the Arkesntone.
The mithril coat:
Bilbo actually has taken two forms of payment: The Arkenstone AND a mithril coat, which in itself is worth a lot of money. However, Thorin doesn't mention this when Bilbo tells his side of the story, and still admits defeat. This leads me to believe that the coat AND the stone together are still equal to or less than 1/14 share per market value. This also makes sense when Thorin buys back the stone at 1/14 share since he has no bargaining power. It would make sense for him to overpay, not underpay to get the stone back.
Therefore:
I conclude that the Arkenstone's value on the fair market is:
Arkenstone <= (1/14 profits - mithril coat)
I also conclude that Bilbo was legally within his rights to take the stone, however shady it might have been.
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Subject
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User
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Time
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Who gets the Arkenstone?
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stoutfiles
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Feb 20, 1:54pm
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There's actually a legal analysis of the contract
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Kimtc
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Feb 20, 2:55pm
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I'm referring to the book
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stoutfiles
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Feb 20, 3:07pm
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Thorin's heritage
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Glorfindela
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Feb 20, 3:13pm
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Contracts do not detect personal value
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stoutfiles
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Feb 20, 3:21pm
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I find this "racist" argument amazing.
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ShireHorse
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Feb 20, 6:07pm
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Not the same
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stoutfiles
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Feb 20, 6:33pm
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Shirehorse is right
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Kirly
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Feb 20, 10:55pm
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If I have a sword in my hand
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stoutfiles
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Feb 21, 1:36pm
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Adverse possession//
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Kirly
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Feb 21, 6:07pm
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Big difference
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stoutfiles
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Feb 21, 8:27pm
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Comfortable?
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Aragalen the Green
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Feb 20, 3:24pm
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Thorin states he has dibs on it
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DanielLB
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Feb 20, 3:04pm
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Nice analysis
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Súlimë
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Feb 20, 3:06pm
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He makes it clear
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stoutfiles
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Feb 20, 3:16pm
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Bilbo knew
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Ham_Sammy
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Feb 20, 3:20pm
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Bilbo knew it was wrong
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Angharad73
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Feb 20, 5:38pm
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He knew it was shady
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stoutfiles
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Feb 20, 6:40pm
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is that really so unimportant to you?
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Kirly
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Feb 20, 10:58pm
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Legal under what law?
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entmaiden
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Feb 20, 6:30pm
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We know what is given to us
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stoutfiles
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Feb 20, 6:37pm
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But you're extrapolating
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entmaiden
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Feb 20, 6:48pm
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No I'm not
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stoutfiles
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Feb 20, 6:56pm
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But surely that is what he DOES say, stoutfiles?
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ShireHorse
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Feb 20, 8:37pm
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The book notes that Thorin wanted all of it
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Ham_Sammy
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Feb 20, 8:45pm
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I think that is an opinion rather than something you can know, without Tolkien quotes
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Kirly
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Feb 20, 11:03pm
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Common sense.
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stoutfiles
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Feb 21, 1:40pm
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More opinion. Where is the proof please?
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Kirly
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Feb 21, 6:13pm
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Did he not admit defeat
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stoutfiles
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Feb 21, 8:30pm
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The Arkenstone has different value to different people
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macfalk
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Feb 21, 10:33pm
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Not to wade into an ants' nest here...
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Roheryn
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Feb 20, 11:52pm
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Good point.
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stoutfiles
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Feb 21, 1:52pm
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Book vs. film.
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N.E. Brigand
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Feb 20, 9:07pm
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Well
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Ham_Sammy
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Feb 20, 9:18pm
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Oh, I missed this piece of news!
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DanielLB
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Feb 20, 9:35pm
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It's in various video interviews done with the run up to the Hobbit.
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Ham_Sammy
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Feb 20, 10:16pm
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Thanks Ham Sammy. I'll look in to it. :-) /
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DanielLB
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Feb 20, 10:24pm
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I posted the link
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Ham_Sammy
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Feb 20, 10:25pm
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I think Balin has the contract in the movie-universe
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macfalk
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Feb 20, 9:30pm
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That's the way I remember it too...
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Kirly
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Feb 20, 11:09pm
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Morally, it´s Thorin´s but...
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Marionette
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Feb 20, 11:14pm
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Bomby doesn't care?
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Bombadil
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Feb 21, 9:39am
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Nice lawyering
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Rostron2
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Feb 21, 4:13pm
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