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Michelle Johnston
Bree

Feb 16, 11:30am
Views: 135
Shortcut
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Getting to the nub of the challange
[In reply to]
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Can't Post
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I think you articulate perfectly what PJ is trying to do and inevitably some will feel that their needs have not been met to a significant degree. I particularly like your point that the whimsy of the book (which I find as a Silmarillion/LOTR centric Tolkien reader a real turn off) has been replaced with cheap modern gags. In one sense it is a terrible indictment of our times, I am sure you agree this is the kind of adult humour displayed day after day by many both in the media and in real life. On the other hand Shakespeare and Dickens is full of personal vulgarity but it was only imagined for an English audience, PJ's problem is he is trying to project some thing that may work in Oregon as well as Osaka. If I may make one observation about the view your are taking, I am surprised that people are surprised. There are enough anticidents from the LOTR, Gimli in general and the drinking scene at Edoras in particular, to expect such outcomes. On the question of Thorins story being Aragornized apart from their kingly rights being denied they seem to exist in quite different ways with different back stories. Thorin is full on wanting Erebor back, Aragorn is hesitant and driven by a mixture of doubt, duty and love from Arwen. I am currently re reading the Hobbit with the Dwarves just having become banged up by the Elves and I had forgotten that Thorin barely exists as any kind of character at this stage. Where I think the adult re imagining is at its best is in the developing of this caricatured senior dwarf into something emotionally real and tangible and entirely by capitalizing on the source material. Its great that we are all different and your passionate remarks challange a believer like me to question whether I am trying to hard to like the film but one persons phoned in White Council is another persons exchange between high and remote beings three of whom have seen what none of the audience have - paradise. is the fact that in trying to make the film 'epic' with the Aragornization of Thorin as tortured hero it seems weaker than LOTR because it lacks the epic sweep and serious issues of the book, and in trying hard to make it lighter and whimsical like TH book with all the snot/bird poo/chips humour it fails as a fairytale for children because the book does not use cheap modern gags as a substitute for whimsy. for me TH fails on both counts because it wants to be everything for everyone. PJ said a couple of times he wants to attract tweenagers, and boy did he try too hard with the video game look of the battle scenes and the look of some of the Dwarves. I tried to save the shire , and it has been but not for me.
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Subject
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User
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Time
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What do you dislike the most : TH AUJ
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Lusitano
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Feb 14, 1:02am
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Trolls
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IdrilofGondolin
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Feb 14, 1:13am
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And I cannot for the life of me understand why Gandalf wasn't given his entire "Dawn take you all and be stone to you" line
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Lusitano
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Feb 14, 1:36am
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I've wondered about that, too.
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BoromirOfWinterfell
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Feb 15, 12:34pm
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Just a wee bit of disappointment
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Aragalen the Green
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Feb 14, 2:07am
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I saw it again this past Saturday afternoon,
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sauget.diblosio
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Feb 14, 2:33am
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I'll do a top ten list real quick...
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jtarkey
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Feb 14, 3:43am
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Radagast
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glor
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Feb 14, 5:27am
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I disagree
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Radagast-Aiwendil
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Feb 15, 7:25pm
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I am familiar with McCoys work
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glor
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Feb 15, 10:48pm
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Yes I know you're familiar
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Radagast-Aiwendil
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Feb 16, 11:16am
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Alteration of The Dwarven History, Alteration to Angmar's history, problems with certain character dynamics in The Council scene, Too Much Stone and Too much giant. . .
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AinurOlorin
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Feb 14, 9:13am
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Epic post
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Lusitano
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Feb 14, 6:04pm
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Great post! And I completely agree about Radagast.
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Tintallė
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Feb 14, 7:08pm
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GT
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TFP
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Feb 14, 12:40pm
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You have nailed it
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imin
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Feb 14, 12:40pm
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I don't know about nailed it.
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Elessar
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Feb 14, 2:09pm
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They nailed it ;)
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imin
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Feb 14, 2:53pm
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Negative posts
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Glorfindela
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Feb 14, 3:26pm
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I think this was one mistake for me
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imin
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Feb 14, 4:16pm
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Thought vs Thought lol
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Elessar
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Feb 14, 3:51pm
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Great rant
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Lusitano
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Feb 14, 5:53pm
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Hmmm. Why do I hear "scrubbing bubbles" echoing in my head?!!!!! //
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Tintallė
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Feb 14, 7:13pm
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Yeah, I'm trying to coin the phrase "tolkien goggles"
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jtarkey
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Feb 14, 7:07pm
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It doesn't make every film instantly enjoyable....
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dormouse
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Feb 14, 7:29pm
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Maybe not where you live :P
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imin
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Feb 14, 8:06pm
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Well yes, of course, anything in the film could have been done differently...
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dormouse
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Feb 14, 11:21pm
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Bomby agrees W/ dormouse..completely...
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Bombadil
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Feb 15, 12:15am
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I want them to do their thing
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imin
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Feb 15, 12:22am
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I am emphatically stating my opinion
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imin
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Feb 15, 12:17am
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I feel for ya
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jtarkey
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Feb 15, 12:44am
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Frivolous Modsuits
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JWPlatt
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Feb 15, 1:04am
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Help! Help! I'm bein' repressed!
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Tintallė
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Feb 15, 1:17am
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Context
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JWPlatt
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Feb 15, 12:49am
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Emotional and aesthetic positioning
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Michelle Johnston
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Feb 15, 11:48am
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Concerning diviniti and killing and a begginer Andy Serkis as a director
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isaac
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Feb 15, 8:45pm
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Pretty much
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Lusitano
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Feb 14, 5:30pm
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The Bunny Sled Chase
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Elutherian
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Feb 14, 3:46am
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Identical to mine
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totoro
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Feb 14, 6:46am
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yes, the chase itself is the biggest weakness
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Silmaril
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Feb 14, 10:44am
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Tru dat
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TwirlingThorin
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Feb 15, 10:56pm
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Three Things
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JWPlatt
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Feb 14, 4:13am
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The start of the credits.
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Roheryn
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Feb 14, 4:25am
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Brilliant! And ditto! //
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Tintallė
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Feb 14, 7:05am
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Fall of the Goblin King
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Sślimė
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Feb 14, 4:41am
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Slightly disliked
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cats16
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Feb 14, 5:01am
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It was way too short
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Kangi Ska
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Feb 14, 6:36am
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Hahahaha! Yes indeed! //
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Tintallė
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Feb 14, 7:04am
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Wild applause!
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dormouse
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Feb 14, 8:51am
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Not for me
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Lusitano
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Feb 14, 5:27pm
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Haha!
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Owain
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Feb 14, 6:37pm
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Negativity for its own sake! //
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dormouse
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Feb 14, 8:50am
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Pretty much lol
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Elessar
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Feb 14, 12:24pm
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Why label it like that, "negativity for its own sake"?
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Macfeast
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Feb 14, 4:20pm
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Macfeast and Inin
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Glorfindela
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Feb 14, 4:45pm
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Because that's how it seemed to me
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dormouse
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Feb 14, 6:58pm
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OP may not have asked directly, word-for-word for thoughtful discussion.
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Macfeast
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Feb 14, 7:09pm
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Perhaps we should Ask
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IdrilofGondolin
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Feb 14, 9:06pm
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Sometimes, negativity can bring positivity
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jtarkey
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Feb 14, 7:16pm
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In fact
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isaac
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Feb 15, 8:05pm
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And the
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Lusitano
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Feb 14, 5:25pm
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Positivity is constructive....
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dormouse
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Feb 14, 6:52pm
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I think this thread is rather excellent, actually
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Tintallė
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Feb 15, 1:16am
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I disliked only these things
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Glorfindela
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Feb 14, 12:01pm
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I'm OK with most of the cinematic "cliches"...
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Kendalf
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Feb 14, 12:03pm
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"That'll do it."
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utku
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Feb 14, 12:49pm
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Excesses of Spielbergian proportion...
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Otaku-sempai
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Feb 14, 1:04pm
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Agreed but
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Lusitano
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Feb 14, 5:39pm
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Too much...
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isaac
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Feb 14, 1:57pm
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Yep, the totally unnatural lighting was another...
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Kendalf
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Feb 14, 5:09pm
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Yeah i agree
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imin
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Feb 14, 5:15pm
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Hi there
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Lusitano
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Feb 14, 5:37pm
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I guess my main dislike can be summed up in one word:
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Old Toby
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Feb 14, 3:56pm
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I like his design
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Lusitano
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Feb 14, 5:56pm
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I loved Azog
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Tintallė
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Feb 14, 10:58pm
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Oh no! A positive post in a negative thread! ;)
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Lio
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Feb 15, 12:53am
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Most of my complaints stem from the "fan-fiction" portions
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Salmacis81
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Feb 14, 6:06pm
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Another 'complaint'
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Glorfindela
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Feb 14, 6:13pm
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Ditto
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Elessar
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Feb 14, 6:29pm
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Easy - Goblin Town escape above all
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elostirion74
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Feb 14, 11:41pm
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Some thoughts and opinions
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Idhreneth
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Feb 15, 12:08am
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He's only a very newly arisen, baby witch king after all! : p //
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Tintallė
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Feb 15, 1:33am
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The use of the "Nazgul" theme
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Lio
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Feb 15, 12:35am
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That bothered me too, actually
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Tintallė
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Feb 15, 1:31am
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I disliked a couple of things
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Ham_Sammy
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Feb 15, 2:37am
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The Misty Mountain theme...
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Estel78
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Feb 15, 4:13am
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It felt that needed a little bit more of gasoline
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isaac
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Feb 15, 8:26pm
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Someone that gets me!!!
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Estel78
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Feb 15, 8:45pm
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Give me fuel give me fire!
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isaac
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Feb 15, 8:53pm
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Not so much
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CathrineB
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Feb 15, 12:46pm
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He was
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Arannir
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Feb 15, 1:11pm
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On CGI
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glor
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Feb 15, 10:45pm
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Trolls scene from the moment
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maut
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Feb 15, 6:02pm
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my main complaint
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Elenorflower
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Feb 15, 11:09pm
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Getting to the nub of the challange
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Michelle Johnston
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Feb 16, 11:30am
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thank you for your comments
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Elenorflower
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Feb 16, 1:01pm
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Chaucer a better example
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Michelle Johnston
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Feb 16, 4:30pm
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Some people
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imin
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Feb 16, 5:55pm
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Observation
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JWPlatt
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Feb 16, 6:36pm
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It was made as a joke
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imin
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Feb 16, 6:39pm
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Majority Rules
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JWPlatt
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Feb 16, 6:45pm
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very true
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imin
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Feb 16, 6:48pm
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But this isn't a hunting trip.
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macfalk
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Feb 16, 6:49pm
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Learning From History
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JWPlatt
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Feb 16, 2:36pm
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However...
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Estel78
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Feb 16, 2:41pm
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Films He Likes To See
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JWPlatt
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Feb 16, 2:45pm
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And that's good
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Estel78
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Feb 16, 2:53pm
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Great Summary
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Michelle Johnston
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Feb 16, 4:19pm
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I have to agree as usual...
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Eleniel
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Feb 16, 1:30pm
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Well, it is a children's book
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Estel78
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Feb 16, 2:24pm
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On lost tension and manners
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glor
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Feb 16, 4:33pm
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thats interesting
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Elenorflower
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Feb 16, 5:02pm
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I thought
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imin
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Feb 16, 5:53pm
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Differences in manners are cultural..
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glor
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Feb 16, 6:16pm
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The class system idea
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imin
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Feb 16, 6:29pm
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the thing I like most about Tolkien
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Elenorflower
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Feb 16, 8:12pm
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The joy can only be in experiencing the journey
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Michelle Johnston
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Feb 17, 7:12am
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I really like this.
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AinurOlorin
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Feb 17, 11:09pm
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A helping hand to our destiny
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Michelle Johnston
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Feb 18, 10:22pm
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Balance
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JWPlatt
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Feb 19, 12:14am
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This one criticism rings most true to me, aside from those about major changes to the history of the legendarium itself.
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AinurOlorin
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Feb 16, 7:37pm
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reply
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imin
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Feb 16, 7:44pm
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Indeed.
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AinurOlorin
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Feb 16, 8:50pm
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Thank you
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Elessar
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Feb 16, 11:08pm
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Thank you very much and you are welcome for what i said :)
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imin
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Feb 17, 1:29am
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Absolutely. The excess damaged what I thought were otherwise quite good scenes.
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AinurOlorin
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Feb 17, 5:37am
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THIS!
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jtarkey
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Feb 17, 1:05am
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Give me any work of art or literature.
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Escapist
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Feb 15, 11:19pm
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I just thought of another one ...
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Escapist
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Feb 15, 11:24pm
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This one is actually true.
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imin
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Feb 16, 12:23am
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Goblin King's one liner
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WhiskFishercat
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Feb 16, 12:37am
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That it's not at my theatre anymore *chin quivers* //
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grammaboodawg
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Feb 16, 3:27am
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"NO! SEBASTIAN!" //
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macfalk
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Feb 16, 6:41pm
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I don't get the Bombur complaints.
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macfalk
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Feb 16, 6:46pm
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You have mentioned almost all the times his weight has caused something different for himself
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imin
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Feb 16, 6:57pm
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I have indeed discussed this before
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macfalk
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Feb 16, 7:04pm
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There was someone else
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imin
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Feb 16, 7:25pm
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Bombur
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JWPlatt
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Feb 16, 7:21pm
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It was more than adequate compared to the book at this point
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macfalk
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Feb 16, 7:24pm
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I think it's too early to say
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imin
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Feb 16, 7:29pm
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Bofur, Dori and Ori recieved noticable attention. And, to a lesser extent,
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AinurOlorin
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Feb 16, 7:38pm
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Oh yeah so did Bofur
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imin
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Feb 16, 7:47pm
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Tolkien, though, made no claims that all dwarves would get attention.
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Macfeast
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Feb 17, 12:26am
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IDK
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jtarkey
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Feb 17, 1:12am
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My turn!
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anagum
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Feb 20, 3:29am
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