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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
What do you dislike the most : TH AUJ
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Tintallė
Gondor


Feb 15 2013, 1:33am

Post #76 of 145 (751 views)
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He's only a very newly arisen, baby witch king after all! : p // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Feb 15 2013, 2:37am

Post #77 of 145 (746 views)
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I disliked a couple of things [In reply to] Can't Post

Radagast. I didn't mind his inclusion as a character but man they missed by a mile on the execution. Disney'ish and ridiculously slapstick

Stone giants. I really thought this went on far too long. I thought it added very little to the story other than to highlight Thorin's disdain of Bilbo

Azog: I just don't like the CGI here. He looks plastic and terrible.

Overall though I give the film high marks. I liked it very much and enjoyed it. Even the stuff above didn't ruin it for me.


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Feb 15 2013, 4:13am

Post #78 of 145 (748 views)
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The Misty Mountain theme... [In reply to] Can't Post

...when it was used in combat. You can do better, Mr. Shore.


Michelle Johnston
Rohan


Feb 15 2013, 11:48am

Post #79 of 145 (710 views)
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Emotional and aesthetic positioning [In reply to] Can't Post

I relate to a good deal of this. If I hire a DVD or go the movie's and I become completely disinterested in the outcome I stop the DVD or leave the cinema.

The Hobbit for me was a huge surprise it really wasn't what I was expecting at all. It had a real heart and whereas I was impressed with the LOTR and shared the heartbreak of Frodo right at the end I was emotionally engaged with this one through out except ( and thats when I came out of the story) :-

The Warg/Radagast chase I could not understand the relative position of everyone and Radagast seemed to be completely unable to act as a decoy. There was so much going on that I think a key intention was lost to convey the idea that the entrance to Rivendell was a magic opening created by Gandalf there is a split second frame that suggests magic at work.

The Stone Giants felt to long and they even reminded me of what I think are called Transformers in shape, that should not have happened.

For my first viewing the Goblin town was way to Indiana Jones but by the time I got to Wellington for my final viewing I had come to love its grand operatic style which of course is juxtoposed against the guys below doing their chamber act. What I think turned me was the whole scene is iginited, literally, by a very appropriate and powerful use of Istari magic which then underwrites the miraculous way they escaped from the mountains and from the Azog led warg attack.

The way I understand ALL of Gandalf's interventions is they are triggered by his inate power which has divine support which he must use sparingly and his choices then increase his sense of divinity leading to him receiving the ultmate blessing of being sent back in the LOTR. The Dwarves escape is miraculous because the divine is miraculous and the Eagles are and always have been a part of that divine intervention in the principle legendarium.Things are meant to happen in this fantasy world because Tolkien believed the higher powers were closer in and more active than in the real world. We live in a cynical age were people can sit back and say thats ridiculous but that is the joy and wonder of his world.

One other thought I really will only judge dialogue exposition verses action once I have my EE and I hope some of the sections, Rivendell and the interaction with the GK, will correct what appears to me to be compression of exposition against action.

I tried to save the shire , and it has been but not for me.

(This post was edited by Michelle Johnston on Feb 15 2013, 11:50am)


BoromirOfWinterfell
Rohan


Feb 15 2013, 12:34pm

Post #80 of 145 (711 views)
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I've wondered about that, too. [In reply to] Can't Post

When he said half of the line, I was so disappointed. I don't see why it had to be omitted. It was one of the moments in the movie during which I scratched my fake beard in puzzlement. Crazy

Žęs ofereode, žisses swa męg - that has passed, so may this.


CathrineB
Rohan


Feb 15 2013, 12:46pm

Post #81 of 145 (691 views)
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Not so much [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
10. General over-use of CGI throughout the whole film. It really took me out of the film instead of in. Being able tell fake from real so easily was a huge bummer for me, and is really the only thing that almost feels like a direct betrayal of the style and techniques used in the LOTR trilogy.



I all in all love the movie, but there's one thing I was most dissapointed with and this one is it. The CGI. LotR was able to look more natural and real at times (not saying always - hell those wargs in TTT are terrible). Rivendell just felt CGI and it dissapointed me more than anything that everything was green screen and not out in the nature set like in FOTR. It just doesn't work now that the viewer has gotten more used to effects and can actually pinpoint the fake and the real. It felt so half assed like they couldn't bother actually doing more to it so they clash on more CGI. I do consider myself a fan of PJ, but I do not share his opinion on everything having to be new technology and fancy stuff and 3D. A good movie doesn't need 3D glasses and tons of ill-looking CGI. I enjoyed the movie ten more times in 2D.

And walking hand in hand with the CGI is Azog of course. Manu Bennett or what his name was is a big guy isn't he? Why not put him in a massive make up thing like with Lurtz? WHY CGI the crap out of him? Isn't Bolg an actor in costume? The orcs? Them I like because they're there. The CGI lightening sometimes is quite bad too. They make even Thranduil look fake and that's a real actor.

But to me the movie was still good and it was saved by very well done characters in my opinion. The Company is impossible not to love. I am able to enjoy the movie despite the CGI, but it does make cringe at times.



(This post was edited by CathrineB on Feb 15 2013, 12:54pm)


Arannir
Valinor

Feb 15 2013, 1:11pm

Post #82 of 145 (678 views)
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He was [In reply to] Can't Post

He was an actor in costume until very late in the game. There was a video on Azog a while back in which someone from Weta explained how PJ finally decided to use the Azog footage shot but replacing the actor in costume with a CGI version (with the same actor doing the motion capture).

Actually, after seeing Azog in costume in this video, I really came to appreciate the distinct look he has now.

I would not be surprised to see Bolg being "replaced" as well...


maut
Rivendell


Feb 15 2013, 6:02pm

Post #83 of 145 (649 views)
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Trolls scene from the moment [In reply to] Can't Post

when they captured Bilbo. Bad humour, hollywood cliché and NO GANDALF speaking different voices.
Frown
Besides that only small things like no colour smoking rings in Bag End but trolls scene was just disgusting and all wrong. Hate it.


...and the sound of the kettle on his hearth was ever after more musical than it had been even in the quiet days before the Unexpected Party

________________________________
Welcome back to Middle-Earth!!!


Radagast-Aiwendil
Gondor


Feb 15 2013, 7:25pm

Post #84 of 145 (657 views)
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I disagree [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought McCoy was excellent, bringing the right amount of anxious eccentricity to the role: rather the way the character was written at certain points brought the performance down in my opinion. I felt that Sylvester actually handled the serious stuff very well, particularly his narration of the Dol Guldur flashback. Of course you're entitled to your opinion, but PJ evidently saw something good about him.

That said, I think that, as others have suggested before, Radagast is generally easier to relate to/forgive if you are familiar with McCoy's work. I'm relatively familiar with his acting persona so I knew what to expect, but understandably he's not everyone's cup of tea and some people are quite shocked about the whole eye-crossing gag.

"These are Gundabad Wargs! They will outrun you!"

"THESE are Rhosgobel Rabbits! I'd like to see them try...."



Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Grey Havens


Feb 15 2013, 8:05pm

Post #85 of 145 (605 views)
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In fact [In reply to] Can't Post

In the past thread that I started all I found was positive feelings about not being alone. I can say almost for certain that all of those that we are negative about the film, loved some stuff of it, but I feel that what we loved at a 90% is because it was very close to Tolkien“s. And yes done with respect its healthy.

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true!


Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Grey Havens


Feb 15 2013, 8:26pm

Post #86 of 145 (609 views)
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It felt that needed a little bit more of gasoline [In reply to] Can't Post

It could have shined a little bit more because it has low pitch notes and gives the scene a lower sense of drama IMO

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true!


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Feb 15 2013, 8:45pm

Post #87 of 145 (600 views)
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Someone that gets me!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Everyone else here seems to love it.


Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Grey Havens


Feb 15 2013, 8:45pm

Post #88 of 145 (614 views)
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Concerning diviniti and killing and a begginer Andy Serkis as a director [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree regarding the divine thing I feel its very important to show that. LOTR movies did show that and Im glad PJ had the brave decission not to kill someone else but Boromir. I liked that and I think its one of Tolkien“s high pointsSmile

But while in LOTR all the main fellows survived, we could see how they did. Aragorn almost died facing Lurtz , we was wounded and horrible looking. Instead, none of the dwarves have ANY injury after escaping the mountains or I have to say the golbins escaped from the dwarves XD. I dare to say that none was in sweat by the running. Unveliable after falling by a bridge, attacked by wargs and stone giants.

And the end was slow paced. I mean, Thorin attacks Azog NO FIGHT , Bilbo kills the orc and faces the warg( come on) but then he gets putted away NO FIGHT, then dwarves attack, but after 2 seconds they are again surrounded by foes NO FIGHT. Any secuence of fighting wasn“t interesting.

The troll fight, the warg chase, the goblin town: I had always the same feeling : I dont know what is happening. I have to focus heavily in one single character to notice what“s going on. Perhaps is the problem of having 13 dwarves moving around. But in LOTR (I“m going to compare because is the same creative team) in the fights I had bits of original stuff, even Legolas surfing on that shield. I could see the movements and all that, but in TH my sight is lost, and I get bored.

I dont know if this is a problem of having Andy Serkis directin action secuances for unit 2, perhaps he dont have enough experience directing, and that wouldnt surprise me.

There were plenty of cliff hangers but they didnt work for me because I have no sensation of peril about the integrity of the dwarves since they survived the stone giants.



Goblin town was :kill, kill,kill,kill,kill and there was a point where I couldnt recognize what was happening and who was killing who. Ori beating a wolf the size of a bull in the head with his hammer, but with no intention at all: he is running and suddenly he looks backwards and leaves that hammer to fall(queen XD) and that hit produces that warg to die. Man you have to put your feet ond the ground and use al your weight and strenght to kill an animal like that , that is attacking to you at full speed and in an adrenaline rush.

The falling bridge: awww I cant with that, it was at Dragon Ball Evolution“s level.

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true!


Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Grey Havens


Feb 15 2013, 8:53pm

Post #89 of 145 (597 views)
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Give me fuel give me fire! [In reply to] Can't Post

You were so right, I liked the score but, IT WASNT MAGNIFICENT the way it could have been!!! Specially I dont understand why they didnt use that awesome theme called Erebor. I think they are going to use it for Esgaroth. Because the notes used for Thorin are the ones that are goiung to be used for the dwarves in general, is a singable theme just as Rohan and Gondor for example. Erebor is singable too but Thorins theme its more simple and rememberable.

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true!


glor
Rohan

Feb 15 2013, 10:45pm

Post #90 of 145 (607 views)
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On CGI [In reply to] Can't Post

I wonder whether the warehouse fire in late 2010 where many of the minatures for TH were destroyed impacted on the amount of CGI needed for AUJ?

Personally, I didn't have any issues with CGI in itself especially when what is necessary on screen are fantastical creatures and worlds. The reason I dislike CGI based films in general is because the acting in them is usually atrocious and, you can clearly tell when actors are doing their thing to 'orange tennis balls' and the like, thus taking you out of the film. That and the fact that CGI based films tend to be the sort of action based blockbuster that make me go meh, not interested.

The acting in AUJ was darn good, and when you consider the performances within the context of the amount of CGI the cast had to interact with it raises the bar considerably for CGI based films.

I do think that CGi has a 'bad name' because of the inability of many movie based actors to actually perform their craft with it. I also think that's why in part CGI is often derided in certain movie making circles, certain actors feeling they may be out of a job if the CGI trend continues.


glor
Rohan

Feb 15 2013, 10:48pm

Post #91 of 145 (599 views)
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I am familiar with McCoys work [In reply to] Can't Post

being a British Child growing up in the 1970s and early 80s, where he was a regular feature of children's TV. I also recall his appalling Dr Who.

Perhaps that is my problem, I am familiar with his style and I don't like it, or rather perhaps, I associate it too much with kids telly, and childish things.


TwirlingThorin
Bree

Feb 15 2013, 10:56pm

Post #92 of 145 (582 views)
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Tru dat [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I can deal with it, and I don't mind the existence of the bunny sled itself, but I think it's badly placed and executed compared to the rest of the film (which I think is brilliant).


I agree wholeheartedly.


Elenorflower
Gondor


Feb 15 2013, 11:09pm

Post #93 of 145 (614 views)
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my main complaint [In reply to] Can't Post

is the fact that in trying to make the film 'epic' with the Aragornization of Thorin as tortured hero it seems weaker than LOTR because it lacks the epic sweep and serious issues of the book, and in trying hard to make it lighter and whimsical like TH book with all the snot/bird poo/chips humour it fails as a fairytale for children because the book does not use cheap modern gags as a substitute for whimsy. for me TH fails on both counts because it wants to be everything for everyone. PJ said a couple of times he wants to attract tweenagers, and boy did he try too hard with the video game look of the battle scenes and the look of some of the Dwarves. The music seemed derivatory, the acting of the WC seemed phoned in, lacking depth and it was seriously dull with Barbie goes to Rivendell coloured sunsets. Azog was the very worst, it was really boring, predictable, and badly done.


Escapist
Gondor


Feb 15 2013, 11:19pm

Post #94 of 145 (577 views)
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Give me any work of art or literature. [In reply to] Can't Post

I could sit here and nit-pick at it all day and still love it.

My main problem with TH: AUJ is that it is becoming made into so much more than just a movie for enjoyment.

It's a battle over worker's rights versus CGI.
It's a tourism ad for NZ instead of somewhere in Europe.
It's the embodiment of Hollywood eating up kiwiwood and bastardization of fun with commercialization.
It's the sole reason responsible for every problem on the islands of NZ since the turn of this century.
It's the scapegoat for the new SW series that needs desperately to put the guilt of is past failures onto something else at any cost.
It's a laundry list of all the actors, directors, and other professionals that could have done it better or tried and quit or shouldn't have been given the chance to be a part of the project instead / when someone else wasn't a part of it.
It's a script reflecting and affronting all the furious fan-fic writing Tolkien nerds and each and every one of their own inviolable private fantasies and interpretations.
It's a war over creative rights to be fought to the death at all costs.
It's the sole embodiment of all that is wrong with new technology innovation, especially 3D HFR.


Escapist
Gondor


Feb 15 2013, 11:24pm

Post #95 of 145 (574 views)
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I just thought of another one ... [In reply to] Can't Post

It's the place where many critics have chosen to take a stand to push back against the swell of movies that are just adaptations and thus are sapping and denying the vast reservoir of creativity that should be on the screen for the greater good of all of humanity instead of what is popular right now.


imin
Valinor


Feb 16 2013, 12:23am

Post #96 of 145 (562 views)
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This one is actually true. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
It's the sole reason responsible for every problem on the islands of NZ since the turn of this century.



WhiskFishercat
Bree


Feb 16 2013, 12:37am

Post #97 of 145 (611 views)
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Goblin King's one liner [In reply to] Can't Post

That will do it.

blah!

runner up, CG Azog, wish they kept him as a costume.


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Feb 16 2013, 3:27am

Post #98 of 145 (538 views)
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That it's not at my theatre anymore *chin quivers* // [In reply to] Can't Post

 



Second draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observation List - updated list coming soon



sample

I'm SO HAPPY these new films take me back to that magical world!!



TIME Google Calendar
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists (updated soon)


Radagast-Aiwendil
Gondor


Feb 16 2013, 11:16am

Post #99 of 145 (534 views)
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Yes I know you're familiar [In reply to] Can't Post

But I do see your point-in some ways perhaps the character was meant to appeal to children. Whether you like the rest of the character or not is another thing I suppose.

"These are Gundabad Wargs! They will outrun you!"

"THESE are Rhosgobel Rabbits! I'd like to see them try...."



Michelle Johnston
Rohan


Feb 16 2013, 11:30am

Post #100 of 145 (566 views)
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Getting to the nub of the challange [In reply to] Can't Post

I think you articulate perfectly what PJ is trying to do and inevitably some will feel that their needs have not been met to a significant degree. I particularly like your point that the whimsy of the book (which I find as a Silmarillion/LOTR centric Tolkien reader a real turn off) has been replaced with cheap modern gags. In one sense it is a terrible indictment of our times, I am sure you agree this is the kind of adult humour displayed day after day by many both in the media and in real life. On the other hand Shakespeare and Dickens is full of personal vulgarity but it was only imagined for an English audience, PJ's problem is he is trying to project some thing that may work in Oregon as well as Osaka.

If I may make one observation about the view your are taking, I am surprised that people are surprised. There are enough anticidents from the LOTR, Gimli in general and the drinking scene at Edoras in particular, to expect such outcomes.

On the question of Thorins story being Aragornized apart from their kingly rights being denied they seem to exist in quite different ways with different back stories. Thorin is full on wanting Erebor back, Aragorn is hesitant and driven by a mixture of doubt, duty and love from Arwen.

I am currently re reading the Hobbit with the Dwarves just having become banged up by the Elves and I had forgotten that Thorin barely exists as any kind of character at this stage. Where I think the adult re imagining is at its best is in the developing of this caricatured senior dwarf into something emotionally real and tangible and entirely by capitalizing on the source material.

Its great that we are all different and your passionate remarks challange a believer like me to question whether I am trying to hard to like the film but one persons phoned in White Council is another persons exchange between high and remote beings three of whom have seen what none of the audience have - paradise.




In Reply To
is the fact that in trying to make the film 'epic' with the Aragornization of Thorin as tortured hero it seems weaker than LOTR because it lacks the epic sweep and serious issues of the book, and in trying hard to make it lighter and whimsical like TH book with all the snot/bird poo/chips humour it fails as a fairytale for children because the book does not use cheap modern gags as a substitute for whimsy. for me TH fails on both counts because it wants to be everything for everyone. PJ said a couple of times he wants to attract tweenagers, and boy did he try too hard with the video game look of the battle scenes and the look of some of the Dwarves.


I tried to save the shire , and it has been but not for me.

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