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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Alfrid's role in the next two films


Feb 13 2013, 10:36pm

Post #1 of 8 (2369 views)
Alfrid's role in the next two films Can't Post

I was recently scanning the character lists for the trilogy, and I had almost forgotten "The Master of Laketown's conniving servant."

Adding to speculation for the building plot between the dwarves and Smaug, and all of the Azog/Bolg/Necromancer hoopla, where does everyone think Alfrid fits in?
How will he stir the story's pot? Of course, with 5-6 hours of film time remaining, there are numerous ways this character could become involved. Perhaps once the relationship between the Orc duo is revealed, we can further postulate Alfrid's alliances.

I'm considering he may be secretly working with someone associated with Dol Guldor. Whether that is Bolg, Azog, or even the Necromancer himself (or any combination of those characters), I cannot guess now. The fact that PJ calls Alfrid 'a much larger role' than his previous role of Drogo Baggins indicates to me that we will be seeing quite a bit of him. I say this only because I have assumed Drogo's role in early drafts of the script to be no larger than those of Frodo and older Bilbo.

Here's my bold prediction on this issue, but don't flog me if I'm wrongSmile:

- Alfrid is a character somewhat similar to that of Grima Wormtongue in LOTR. While Grima was secretly helping Saruman, Alfrid is working for the inhabitant(s) of Dol Guldor. Comparative to Grima's betrayal/poisoning of Theoden, Alfrid negatively influences (by some means) the mind and physical appearance of the Master. I would guess this effect to be much more subtle than in LOTR. It may be more along the lines of Alfrid strongly enticing the Master to have become a greedy, disgusting, worthless and corrupt man. It wouldn't hurt for Alfrid to be using some poison-like concoction given to him while in Dol Guldor. Perhaps Stephen Fry's description of his character's nastiness reflects this "poisoning." And, when the dwarves arrive, I would assert that Alfrid tries to act as a major hinderance to their quest. Possibly even to the extent of Alfrid notifying Bolg/Azog of their presence. And...this is what leads the orcs to the Lonely Mountain, resulting in all of the previously stated events proposed during the Bo5A (i.e. how Bolg/Azog get there at all).

I'm really curious as to what everyone thinks of this idea. Of course, I don't want to assert that I think this will happen, or should. I just think it would be an interesting way to tie some loose ends together.

And if you disagree with this in some ways, or entirely, please do respond with your ideas on Alfrid's role in the next two films.

Cheers to the never ending speculation!!Cool

Here is PJ's quote on selecting Ryan Gage for this role... " Ryan is a great young actor who we originally cast in a small role, but we liked him so much, we promoted him to the much larger Alfrid part." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hobbit_%28film_series%29#Cast


Feb 13 2013, 11:11pm

Post #2 of 8 (1343 views)
Too similar to Gríma [In reply to] Can't Post

My biggest fears about this new character is that he will be too similar to Gríma. But I guess he will just be involved in the politics of Laketown (clash of interests between Bard and the Master), spying Bard in his expanded role in the movies.

Ereinion Nénharma

Feb 14 2013, 12:20am

Post #3 of 8 (1262 views)
Maybe... [In reply to] Can't Post

he's based on the character of Bill Ferny?

''Do not fear the shadows, for seeing them means light is near...''

(This post was edited by Ereinion Nénharma on Feb 14 2013, 12:21am)


Feb 14 2013, 3:08am

Post #4 of 8 (1199 views)
Well [In reply to] Can't Post

that did pop into my head when writing the post. Not a bad inclusion, since Ferny's role was cut from LOTR.


Feb 14 2013, 1:24pm

Post #5 of 8 (1149 views)
Well, I disagree with you about the Master having an alliance with Orcs/goblins.... [In reply to] Can't Post

I see the role of the Master remaining consistant with how he is portrayed in the book (if perhaps a bit more decadent). He might use Alfrid as a spy among the commoners and merchants, seeking out discontent. Alfrid, himself, might be attempting to play both sides against the other with a long-term goal of supplanting the current Master. That might set him apart from Grima Wormtongue.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

Tol Eressea

Feb 14 2013, 5:23pm

Post #6 of 8 (1127 views)
I seriously hope you are wrong :) [In reply to] Can't Post

I realize that Bard role needs to be expanded a bit, but we've already had the whole "leader being secretly manipulated by evil forces through his servant" with the Saruman/Grima/Theoden sub-plot in TTT. Why include a completely invented storyline if it's something we've already seen? That would be like if they had concocted a story involving Thorin cleaving the hand off of a much larger foe in a last ditch effort a la Isildur in the prologue. Oh wait...

Honestly, there is already too much fan-fiction stuff IMO. Some of it, I can understand - there wasn't much written detail involving the attack on Dol Guldur, which is an important side-plot that I'm glad is being included. So I accept that PJ and co. might have to invent some stuff regarding that. But it's all going a bit too far IMO. Giving parts of what should've been Gandalf's role to Radagast, completely retooling the history and timeline of Azog and the Battle of Azanulbizar, all this business with enchanted Nazgul tombs - all of it just served to unnecessarily complicate things IMO. I was kind of hoping that they might put a bit of a moratorium on the made-up stuff, but now it seems that in addition to the already large amount of invented material, we'll also be getting Beorn involved in some torture scene, a romance sub-plot between Kili and a made-up elf female, and the writers giving a significant role to another totally made-up character who is nothing more than a servant of a minor book character. After they went ahead with the decision to turn TH into 3 films, Jackson and Philippa Boyens kept stating over and over that they made that decision so they could have the opportunity to tell "the whole story", but it's starting to get a little confusing whose story they're actually telling.

In any event, even though I have my criticisms about the looseness of the adaptation, I'll still go see all them in theaters AND get the EEs when they release. There's no turning back for me now Tongue


Feb 14 2013, 9:20pm

Post #7 of 8 (1100 views)
Foil for the Master [In reply to] Can't Post

The Master of Laketown (hereafter known as MOL) has to have someone to talk to. How else will we know what he is up to? Perhaps Alfrid is a stand in for the audience. Exposition happens and the 4th wall is not broken as the MOL has someone to plot with . Or he could be a rival for Turiel's affections.


Feb 15 2013, 3:59am

Post #8 of 8 (1124 views)
Alfrid could be a great character [In reply to] Can't Post

Alfrid: [to the Master of Laketown] "Remember when you left Laketown? Before all this, before Thorin's arrival? You were gone seven years. Seven years I waited, hoping that you wouldn't come back. Every year, I took a holiday. I went to Bree, there's this inn at the base of the Bree-hill. Every fine evening, I'd sit there and order a fancy ale. I had this fantasy, that I would look across the tables and I'd see you there, with a wife and maybe a couple of kids. You wouldn't say anything to me, nor me to you. But we'd both know that you'd made it, that you were happy. I never wanted you to come back to Laketown. I always knew there was nothing here for you, except pain and tragedy. And I wanted something more for you than that. I still do."


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