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A few comments

sador
Valinor


Feb 11 2013, 2:50pm


Views: 246
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A few comments [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm cutting a lot of notes out in doing this, so the content of these posts is very much subjective, on my part
Of course! That's the only way to do it - and thank you for making the effort!

Logically, there had to be a culture in which that asterisk word existed.
Have you ever read either of Shippey's books? He really loves this kind of speculation.

In our culture, there is no association between the moon and being crazy, but that must have been the case at some point, based on that word.
???
In less than three weeks, it will be fourty years since Pink Floyd's classic was released. There might not have been one when I was boirn, but there sure is now!

where in Tolkien's fiction work do you see worlds created by language?
Well, Tolkien claimed he wrote his stories for his languages. Perhaps this statement needs to be qualified, but it is.
And of course, "In the beginning there was the Word".

Do you have any thoughts on the role/usage of philology in TH, The Sil, or LOTR?
Not at the moment.

1. Lapses in narration-- there are several things that don't seem to quite "fit" in Middle Earth that are mentioned in The Hobbit.
Yes. Did your professor present them as authorial lapses, or does she think Tolkien made them on purpose?

One of the dwarves mentions, during the scene with the stone giants, that he doesn't want to be punted over the mountains "like a football." There is another mention of Bilbo carrying out an activity in with the same amount of ease that "you or I would go to the post-office."
Neither of these is critical: one might suppose that many cultures have some kind of football-game (after all, Tolkien meant what Americans call "soccer"); and the second one is an authorial interjection. But yes, anachronisms abound, many of which cannot be explained away like these two.

2. Our professor described them as "Oscar Wilde characters."

Ha!

Elrond is depicted as more serious, but it doesn't even sound like he is actually an elf at all; the text describes him as an "elf-friend."
Of mixed ancestry; but you're right.

3. The Mirkwood elves-- they're more serious than the Rivendell elves, but the problem our professor pointed out is that they basically seem like humans.

And not like the best of that spieces.

They're greedy, they play tricks, they get drunk, they hunt, etc-- In some ways, they seem just like the people of Lake Town.
Yes; but they improve later.

4. Animals that talk (in Beorn's house)-- this is Disney, which Tolkien detested. Tolkien never has another talking animal like this again.

I disagree. We never hear the animals speak - as we do Huan in the Sil; and even the fox in LotR thinks very humanly! To say nothing of Garm in Farmer Giles...
But it is true that the concept of "serving animals" does not appear again.

Do you prefer LOTR to TH because of this, or the other way around?

I like both books; in general I prefer LotR - but I don't consider this the dominant reason.

Did you see these as lapses when you read them-- were they jarring to you?
Yes. No.

On that note, did you read TH before or after reading LOTR?
Began before, discarded it, finally did after.

Personally, I always preferred the language of LOTR-- not because it was more serious, because it was more removed from this world, which is one of the reasons I've always loved fantasy.
Well, but I'm not a fantasy fan.


Thank you, Laera!

Subject User Time
Tolkien Notes: Intro, Language, and flaws in The Hobbit Laerasėa Send a private message to Laerasėa Feb 11 2013, 1:03am
    Flaws in The Hobbit dernwyn Send a private message to dernwyn Feb 11 2013, 1:41am
        Oh dear... Laerasėa Send a private message to Laerasėa Feb 11 2013, 3:28am
            Hmm? Al Carondas Send a private message to Al Carondas Feb 11 2013, 4:06am
            No, no, not you! dernwyn Send a private message to dernwyn Feb 11 2013, 1:43pm
                I think Laerasėa Send a private message to Laerasėa Feb 13 2013, 4:24am
                    Ah, language.... Silverlode Send a private message to Silverlode Feb 13 2013, 7:58am
                        I understand Laerasėa Send a private message to Laerasėa Feb 13 2013, 3:11pm
    The Hobbit was written for Tolkien's children. Elizabeth Send a private message to Elizabeth Feb 11 2013, 2:19am
        I don't think I explained it properly Laerasėa Send a private message to Laerasėa Feb 11 2013, 3:15am
            It *had* to be the same universe as LotR Elizabeth Send a private message to Elizabeth Feb 11 2013, 4:04am
            I believe also, if i am not mistaken, silneldor Send a private message to silneldor Feb 11 2013, 5:38am
    Long live The Hobbit Al Carondas Send a private message to Al Carondas Feb 11 2013, 3:21am
        Nope Laerasėa Send a private message to Laerasėa Feb 13 2013, 4:35am
    Further to dernwyn's comments SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Feb 11 2013, 4:02am
        She is absolutely open to new ideas Laerasėa Send a private message to Laerasėa Feb 13 2013, 4:03am
    in regards to replies in this thread... Magpie Send a private message to Magpie Feb 11 2013, 5:10am
        Thank you, M Laerasėa Send a private message to Laerasėa Feb 13 2013, 4:46am
    I feel safe in saying demnation Send a private message to demnation Feb 11 2013, 6:46am
        I was actually under that impression, as well Laerasėa Send a private message to Laerasėa Feb 13 2013, 4:05am
    A few comments sador Send a private message to sador Feb 11 2013, 2:50pm
        I love Tom Shippey! Laerasėa Send a private message to Laerasėa Feb 13 2013, 3:53am
            Good for you! sador Send a private message to sador Feb 13 2013, 5:18pm
    And there is more... Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Feb 11 2013, 4:51pm
        Wow! Laerasėa Send a private message to Laerasėa Feb 13 2013, 3:32am
    This Great Fun IdrilofGondolin Send a private message to IdrilofGondolin Feb 11 2013, 7:50pm
        Thank you! Laerasėa Send a private message to Laerasėa Feb 13 2013, 3:24am
    Excited to follow your class! Menelwyn Send a private message to Menelwyn Feb 11 2013, 9:27pm
        Good to see you here :) Laerasėa Send a private message to Laerasėa Feb 13 2013, 4:49am
    Laerasea my dear, silneldor Send a private message to silneldor Feb 12 2013, 3:18am
    I find more flaws in LOTR than in TH. // macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Feb 13 2013, 10:28am
        I know you do. :-) Magpie Send a private message to Magpie Feb 13 2013, 2:35pm
        Well, even Tolkien, himself, had issues with 'The Hobbit'. Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Feb 13 2013, 3:44pm
            I am aware of this macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Feb 14 2013, 12:43pm
                But those first few chapters are so good! imin Send a private message to imin Feb 14 2013, 12:53pm
                Which problems with LotR really bother you? Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Feb 14 2013, 12:53pm
                    It's hard to put it to words macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Feb 14 2013, 12:58pm
                        Well, I can see where an inablility to relate to the main character could be a problem. Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Feb 14 2013, 1:07pm
                On the Other Hand IdrilofGondolin Send a private message to IdrilofGondolin Feb 14 2013, 4:51pm
    okay, here's a question... since we're talking about anachronisms in language Magpie Send a private message to Magpie Feb 13 2013, 2:41pm
    To lapse or not to lapse? That's a question? ;) grammaboodawg Send a private message to grammaboodawg Feb 14 2013, 3:49am

 
 
 

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