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sador
Valinor
Feb 11, 2:50pm
Views: 219
Shortcut
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I'm cutting a lot of notes out in doing this, so the content of these posts is very much subjective, on my part
Of course! That's the only way to do it - and thank you for making the effort!
Logically, there had to be a culture in which that asterisk word existed.
Have you ever read either of Shippey's books? He really loves this kind of speculation.
In our culture, there is no association between the moon and being crazy, but that must have been the case at some point, based on that word.
???
In less than three weeks, it will be fourty years since Pink Floyd's classic was released. There might not have been one when I was boirn, but there sure is now!
where in Tolkien's fiction work do you see worlds created by language?
Well, Tolkien claimed he wrote his stories for his languages. Perhaps this statement needs to be qualified, but it is.
And of course, "In the beginning there was the Word".
Do you have any thoughts on the role/usage of philology in TH, The Sil, or LOTR?
Not at the moment.
1. Lapses in narration-- there are several things that don't seem to quite "fit" in Middle Earth that are mentioned in The Hobbit.
Yes. Did your professor present them as authorial lapses, or does she think Tolkien made them on purpose?
One of the dwarves mentions, during the scene with the stone giants, that he doesn't want to be punted over the mountains "like a football." There is another mention of Bilbo carrying out an activity in with the same amount of ease that "you or I would go to the post-office."
Neither of these is critical: one might suppose that many cultures have some kind of football-game (after all, Tolkien meant what Americans call "soccer"); and the second one is an authorial interjection. But yes, anachronisms abound, many of which cannot be explained away like these two.
2. Our professor described them as "Oscar Wilde characters."
Ha!
Elrond is depicted as more serious, but it doesn't even sound like he is actually an elf at all; the text describes him as an "elf-friend."
Of mixed ancestry; but you're right.
3. The Mirkwood elves-- they're more serious than the Rivendell elves, but the problem our professor pointed out is that they basically seem like humans.
And not like the best of that spieces.
They're greedy, they play tricks, they get drunk, they hunt, etc-- In some ways, they seem just like the people of Lake Town.
Yes; but they improve later.
4. Animals that talk (in Beorn's house)-- this is Disney, which Tolkien detested. Tolkien never has another talking animal like this again.
I disagree. We never hear the animals speak - as we do Huan in the Sil; and even the fox in LotR thinks very humanly! To say nothing of Garm in Farmer Giles...
But it is true that the concept of "serving animals" does not appear again.
Do you prefer LOTR to TH because of this, or the other way around?
I like both books; in general I prefer LotR - but I don't consider this the dominant reason.
Did you see these as lapses when you read them-- were they jarring to you?
Yes. No.
On that note, did you read TH before or after reading LOTR?
Began before, discarded it, finally did after.
Personally, I always preferred the language of LOTR-- not because it was more serious, because it was more removed from this world, which is one of the reasons I've always loved fantasy.
Well, but I'm not a fantasy fan.
Thank you, Laera!
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Subject
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User
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Time
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Tolkien Notes: Intro, Language, and flaws in The Hobbit
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Laerasėa
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Feb 11, 1:03am
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Flaws in The Hobbit
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dernwyn
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Feb 11, 1:41am
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Oh dear...
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Laerasėa
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Feb 11, 3:28am
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Hmm?
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Al Carondas
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Feb 11, 4:06am
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No, no, not you!
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dernwyn
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Feb 11, 1:43pm
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I think
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Laerasėa
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Feb 13, 4:24am
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Ah, language....
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Silverlode
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Feb 13, 7:58am
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I understand
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Laerasėa
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Feb 13, 3:11pm
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The Hobbit was written for Tolkien's children.
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Elizabeth
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Feb 11, 2:19am
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I don't think I explained it properly
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Laerasėa
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Feb 11, 3:15am
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It *had* to be the same universe as LotR
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Elizabeth
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Feb 11, 4:04am
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I believe also, if i am not mistaken,
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silneldor
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Feb 11, 5:38am
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Long live The Hobbit
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Al Carondas
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Feb 11, 3:21am
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Nope
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Laerasėa
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Feb 13, 4:35am
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Further to dernwyn's comments
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SirDennisC
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Feb 11, 4:02am
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She is absolutely open to new ideas
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Laerasėa
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Feb 13, 4:03am
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in regards to replies in this thread...
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Magpie
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Feb 11, 5:10am
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Thank you, M
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Laerasėa
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Feb 13, 4:46am
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I feel safe in saying
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demnation
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Feb 11, 6:46am
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I was actually under that impression, as well
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Laerasėa
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Feb 13, 4:05am
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A few comments
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sador
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Feb 11, 2:50pm
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I love Tom Shippey!
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Laerasėa
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Feb 13, 3:53am
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Good for you!
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sador
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Feb 13, 5:18pm
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And there is more...
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Otaku-sempai
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Feb 11, 4:51pm
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Wow!
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Laerasėa
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Feb 13, 3:32am
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This Great Fun
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IdrilofGondolin
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Feb 11, 7:50pm
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Thank you!
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Laerasėa
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Feb 13, 3:24am
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Excited to follow your class!
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Menelwyn
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Feb 11, 9:27pm
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Good to see you here :)
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Laerasėa
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Feb 13, 4:49am
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Laerasea my dear,
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silneldor
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Feb 12, 3:18am
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I find more flaws in LOTR than in TH. //
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macfalk
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Feb 13, 10:28am
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I know you do. :-)
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Magpie
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Feb 13, 2:35pm
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Well, even Tolkien, himself, had issues with 'The Hobbit'.
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Otaku-sempai
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Feb 13, 3:44pm
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I am aware of this
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macfalk
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Feb 14, 12:43pm
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But those first few chapters are so good!
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imin
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Feb 14, 12:53pm
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Which problems with LotR really bother you?
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Otaku-sempai
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Feb 14, 12:53pm
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It's hard to put it to words
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macfalk
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Feb 14, 12:58pm
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Well, I can see where an inablility to relate to the main character could be a problem.
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Otaku-sempai
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Feb 14, 1:07pm
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On the Other Hand
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IdrilofGondolin
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Feb 14, 4:51pm
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okay, here's a question... since we're talking about anachronisms in language
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Magpie
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Feb 13, 2:41pm
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To lapse or not to lapse? That's a question? ;)
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grammaboodawg
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Feb 14, 3:49am
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