Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Oakenshield

ThorinIIIStonehelm
The Shire

Feb 9 2013, 9:03am

Post #1 of 16 (1113 views)
Shortcut
The Oakenshield Can't Post

Hi guys just joined the forum after a long time of viewing the different rumours get discussed here. Anyway I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before but I've seen the film twice and both times was struck by how prominently they focused on Thorin losing the Oakenshield at the end. Why?
IMO I think it's showing Thorin's journey towards his true self. Being King Under the Mountain. Sort of him no longer having the title Oakenshield because he's moving towards something greater. If this is true I think it's a brilliant idea from PJ and crew.
What do you guys think?
Smile


Angharad73
Rohan

Feb 9 2013, 9:13am

Post #2 of 16 (553 views)
Shortcut
Interesting thought! [In reply to] Can't Post

It would be like a symbol of leaving the past behind and moving forward towards what he is meant to become. Very interesting symbolism, if this is why he lost the Oakenshield.

I hadn't thought of that - I was actually a bit upset about him losing the Oakenshield and wondering if he would get it back. Or if perhaps Azog picked it up after the dwarves left with the eagles, to give him another thing to taunt Thorin with on their next encounter.


Roheryn
Grey Havens

Feb 9 2013, 11:07am

Post #3 of 16 (520 views)
Shortcut
Welcome, ThorinIII! [In reply to] Can't Post

Nice question, and interesting take on this. We've discussed this a bit before but that doesn't mean we can't do it again and come up with some fresh insights!

I think I'd pose the opposite interpretation: the loss of the Oakenshield symbolizes the loss of an important part of his identity. He's lost this battle with his archenemy, which he fought after succumbing to anger and hatred; giving in to those darker emotions is a step towards succumbing to the dragon-sickness that we know is coming eventually. The Oakenshield represented an important step on the way to becoming king, and now he's lost that.

My own pet theory is that he'll get the Oakenshield back on his deathbed, a sign that his redemption is then complete.

And I'll assume you don't mind if girls answer your question too... Wink


ThorinIIIStonehelm
The Shire


Feb 9 2013, 12:08pm

Post #4 of 16 (497 views)
Shortcut
Nice Theory... [In reply to] Can't Post

...and it makes a lot of sense. According to my theory, the full gaining of his real identity doesn't happen until his deathbed either as that's when he realises he had been wrong. I absolutely love the line: "If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world."

And you know what I meant by "guys"
Smile


Anubis
Rivendell


Feb 9 2013, 12:12pm

Post #5 of 16 (477 views)
Shortcut
Nice thinking [In reply to] Can't Post

I believe this has to do with Thorin“s personality, his stubbornness and incapacity to say to himself: " I can“t do this. This is out of my reach." I think the fallen oakenshield reflects how he tries to do more than what they ask of him. The message here would be, IMO, "this is as far as you can go". In one of my viewings,

Gandalf“s words came to my mind during this particular scene. "Your pride will be your downfall." Nothing truer for the character. His oakenshield fell, and thus fell his pride. Unfortunately, he will not learn from this mistake.

Cheers, and welcome to the forum.Smile


Nunilo
Bree

Feb 9 2013, 12:54pm

Post #6 of 16 (428 views)
Shortcut
^^ This [In reply to] Can't Post

I also saw this scene as a bit of a blow to Thorin's pride. He truly believed (or imagined) that he could take down Azog just as he had back in Moria, only to get smashed. This made the loss of the Oakenshield rather sad. It was a bit of a rash decision on his part, fuelled by old memories and anger at discovering Azog was still alive. I did wonder if it would be a humbling experience for him, but it will probably just make him even more eager for revenge.

Despite this, I still felt bad for him. Poor Thorin :(


stoutfiles
Rohan


Feb 9 2013, 4:03pm

Post #7 of 16 (416 views)
Shortcut
Thorin Rockinhand [In reply to] Can't Post

If Thorin had picked up a rock instead and hit Azog with it, would he be Thorin Rockinhand and carry a rock instead of a sword? It's great the the oak branch saved him, but other than symbolism it makes no sense to carry it around over a proper shield. It should have been discarded right after the battle in which it was obtained.

All that said,he should keep the branch as per the book. It is a character flaw, not a mistake. If Tolkien didn't want him to have it anymore, he wouldn't.


Brethil
Half-elven


Feb 9 2013, 4:17pm

Post #8 of 16 (388 views)
Shortcut
So true. Its all about identity [In reply to] Can't Post

After all the losses and defeats all Thorin has had to hold onto is the defeat of Azog and the half-victory thery achieved. The Oakenshield is this symbol. That's why he repeats the phrase "Azog was destroyed" so many times, always the same way: it's become an article of faith.

When hes in the tree, the sight of Azog is like an existential disruption. The ONE thing he had to hold onto and feel proud of...gone.

I love how he looks down once the tree is sideways, hanging over the cliff - assessing fall by death - THEN looks at Azog and decides to move. I can see his thoughts - I'm sure as HE** not going to die like this. And he makes the choice to face Azog alone.

Don't know if it will be recovered or not. Is it in any shots from DOS or TABA?
PJ may leave it as purely symbolic and lost.

...she took the point at once, but she also took the spoons.


Brethil
Half-elven


Feb 9 2013, 4:19pm

Post #9 of 16 (374 views)
Shortcut
welcome [In reply to] Can't Post

and great question. I think you are right, the shield is the symbol of old identity, and he must move forward and change.

...she took the point at once, but she also took the spoons.


Brethil
Half-elven


Feb 9 2013, 4:30pm

Post #10 of 16 (382 views)
Shortcut
facing Azog [In reply to] Can't Post

So if the choice is between pathetic death by falling or by on-his-feet fighting, he has chosen his end. So facing Azog isn't about winning but about choosing which way he will die. Suicide King.

...she took the point at once, but she also took the spoons.


BoromirOfWinterfell
Rohan


Feb 9 2013, 4:58pm

Post #11 of 16 (358 views)
Shortcut
Fascinating subject. [In reply to] Can't Post

I love your idea. On a previous thread, someone speculated that Azog may pick up the Oakenshield. That would make the tension between Thorin and Azog so much worse, taking in account the history of the Oakenshield and the Battle of Azanulbizar.

Žęs ofereode, žisses swa męg - that has passed, so may this.


BoromirOfWinterfell
Rohan


Feb 9 2013, 4:59pm

Post #12 of 16 (374 views)
Shortcut
Almost forgot! [In reply to] Can't Post

Welcome! I hope you enjoy these forums.Smile

Žęs ofereode, žisses swa męg - that has passed, so may this.


Roheryn
Grey Havens

Feb 9 2013, 6:36pm

Post #13 of 16 (321 views)
Shortcut
Love that line too. [In reply to] Can't Post

PJ and co have done a nice job using dialog from the book; I sure hope that's one line they use as written!


ElendilTheShort
Gondor


Feb 10 2013, 9:30am

Post #14 of 16 (239 views)
Shortcut
Stoutflies (SPOILERS) [In reply to] Can't Post

where does JRRT say he keeps the oak branch. As far as I read it he used it on one occasion as a makeshift defence, it is never used again bit the name Oakenshield was earned.

He should stay Oakenshield in the movie as that is the last thing he is called in the book by Bilbo when he farewells him after his burial under the mountain.


emre43
Lorien

Feb 11 2013, 7:08pm

Post #15 of 16 (130 views)
Shortcut
His shield was destroyed. [In reply to] Can't Post

Thorin sees the Oakenshield as the item that gained him his biggest victory. It makes sense that he hangs on to it.

I wonder if the loss of the Oakenshield will be a reason for ***spoilers*** Thorin's death ***spoilers***


In Reply To
If Thorin had picked up a rock instead and hit Azog with it, would he be Thorin Rockinhand and carry a rock instead of a sword? It's great the the oak branch saved him, but other than symbolism it makes no sense to carry it around over a proper shield. It should have been discarded right after the battle in which it was obtained.

All that said,he should keep the branch as per the book. It is a character flaw, not a mistake. If Tolkien didn't want him to have it anymore, he wouldn't.



stoutfiles
Rohan


Feb 11 2013, 8:08pm

Post #16 of 16 (204 views)
Shortcut
Hm, you're right [In reply to] Can't Post

Another case of me thinking the movie began to follow the book and then branched away. I didn't remember a scene where he lost it, so just assumed he always had it when reflecting back.

This is refreshing news; Tolkien made a wise decision to not have his lead dwarf carry around a tree branch as a replacement shield.

 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.