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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Later Dwarven Weapons

Rostron2
Gondor


Feb 8 2013, 10:11pm

Post #1 of 21 (1296 views)
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Later Dwarven Weapons Can't Post

The Company of dwarves starts with an eclectic collection of weapons, each more or less personal to them, or that fits their style: Dwalin had the paired axes, etc. We have caught glimpses of various weapons employed, and the art book details these even further. (Ori's slingshot, etc.) soooooo...

After their capture by the elves, they won't have all these. I wonder what they will end up with:

a. On the way from Laketown to the Mountain
b. After they choose weapons and armor from the hoard.

Tracking the path of Orcrist will be interesting, presumably, the Elvenking will give it back to Thorin or for the burial.

I guess they will pick up a variety of things in Laketown that are 'best used for fighting dragons'; and Bofur's boar spear would have been handy. What details would you like to see?


arithmancer
Grey Havens

Feb 8 2013, 10:14pm

Post #2 of 21 (913 views)
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Book Spoiler [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm sort of hoping the Elvenking keeps Orcrist the way he does in the book. I like the book detail that he returns it to Thorin's tomb when he is buried.


Escapist
Gondor


Feb 8 2013, 10:16pm

Post #3 of 21 (885 views)
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I think there is an opportunity [In reply to] Can't Post

in Laketown for the procurement of weapons to be a seed of story-telling and character development surrounding the dwarf-lake men relationship. I believe that the dwarves do get other supplies there.


Escapist
Gondor


Feb 8 2013, 10:17pm

Post #4 of 21 (869 views)
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I agree. [In reply to] Can't Post

This detail seems to be supremely meaningful to the whole story - especially the themes that lead to Bo5A.


Brethil
Half-elven


Feb 8 2013, 11:12pm

Post #5 of 21 (855 views)
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Culture and text and toys [In reply to] Can't Post

Weaponry is such a lovely function of charactar.

From Laketown to the Mountain we must consider what culture has been developed in Laketown to determine what may be available as well as textual clues that the writers might keep consistent. From what we saw in Dale, the parent town, so far we have a Tibetan flavor (Mongol dress, noted the Tibetan Lion sculpture etc..) However thay had no horse culture that I could see (onscreen; and there is none in text). so although right away one might plump for bladed options particularly in the form of curved scimitars for the sake of cosmetic form, but it probably would not be a practical choice for a footed force. As a waterside people spears seem more of an option as they would have developed them for both war and fishing use, as well as possibly local boar and bear hunting. Bifur might find a real gem here, perhaps Bofur as well if they have had similar training in the past. Nets as accompaniment may make sense in Laketown, but with height and arm reach considerations Dwarves might not be able to use these at all even if available.
Of course Bard's heritage is of the bow, so this must exist within the combat and hunting culture. Kili might make out well here finding an honored antique. Ori perhaps too, as Laketown children might have use of slingshots as a precourser to learning distance tactics later on with bow as adults. Our tunnel-fighters of old maybe not so much, as Laketown probably will not have a wide selection of blunt or crushing/heavy blades. Ha, Balin might get stuck with a letter opener after all.

So, with a few exceptions, they may not have all theor favorite things heading to the Mountain.

Now the Mountain hoard....cha-ching.

I am looking forward to seeing both beautiful and functional designs here, considering WETA's track record, built by Dwarves and for Dwarves! Weapons which I hope have some stories. Armor as well awaits. Thorin every inch a King in gold. Big fun.

...she took the point at once, but she also took the spoons.


Brethil
Half-elven


Feb 8 2013, 11:32pm

Post #6 of 21 (849 views)
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as for Orcrist [In reply to] Can't Post

and its return...now that I am NOT looking forward too. My first sense of vague misgiving of the emotional jumbo-sized Acme safe falling on our heads has sharpened to a real DREAD at how this is going to feel. ROTK had layers of ending, to the final bittersweet moment. This is more like layers of ECT.

...she took the point at once, but she also took the spoons.


Escapist
Gondor


Feb 8 2013, 11:43pm

Post #7 of 21 (829 views)
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When I was playing with how it could be layed out in 3 films [In reply to] Can't Post

I had imagined maybe putting a lot of that ETC in the beginning as a bit longer frame.

Some of the end isn't really just ect ... and I don't think the sword is part of the ect. I'm thinking more of the journey back and return to Hobbiton. Otherwise the sword and funeral for Thorin etc. would be worth keeping ... although that touching moment of sword sharing is very not-dramatic-cut throat-dragon hoard gold greed-battling for thrones-dark and edgy. I think it is something else, and that something else is worth something.

On the other hand, I could see why ending with a funeral and no pick-me-up after could be a downer.


Brethil
Half-elven


Feb 9 2013, 1:10am

Post #8 of 21 (779 views)
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sorry I used a bad and misleading acronym [In reply to] Can't Post

meant ECT as in electroconvulsive therapy - series of painful shocks delivered in stages, not etc. as in etectera. Mea culpa! was typing fast.

You are completely right, it belongs. Dark? oh yes. But it is going to be very dark before the end. Wondering if Thorin's madness will go the the extreme of redemption only with death.

...she took the point at once, but she also took the spoons.

(This post was edited by Brethil on Feb 9 2013, 1:20am)


The White Wizard
The Shire


Feb 9 2013, 1:13am

Post #9 of 21 (774 views)
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Good Thought [In reply to] Can't Post

I think that is a very interesting thought. I will make sure to keep an eye on it.


Bombadil
Half-elven


Feb 9 2013, 2:09am

Post #10 of 21 (792 views)
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Since Thorin. lost his Oakenshield.. [In reply to] Can't Post

Methinks he gets a Grand Gold one in the Hoard..
When we see the company at the Front gate?
.......
looking down on the Advancing armies
they are going to be
KILLER!
.....wearing the finest heirlooms from their Kingdom.....


Bombadil
Half-elven


Feb 9 2013, 3:06am

Post #11 of 21 (767 views)
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From homeless hobos on the road... [In reply to] Can't Post

Royalty!


Roheryn
Grey Havens

Feb 9 2013, 10:59am

Post #12 of 21 (723 views)
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Great metaphor. [In reply to] Can't Post

Though I'd be even more worried about the emotional jumbo-sized grand pianos...

Have to agree, though. The ending of TABA is going to be hard to stomach, especially since I'm guessing PJ will ratchet up the drama and heartbreak as much as possible. There is no happy ending here, not with *this* version of The Hobbit, where Thorin's story is (yes, I know it's a bit sacrilegious to say this) just as important as Bilbo's. There are too many characters who we're going to care deeply about who are going to either end up dead or griefstricken. I can't believe we're going to hate Thorin (as Richard Armitage suggests) enough to make the losses any easier to take.


Brethil
Half-elven


Feb 9 2013, 3:26pm

Post #13 of 21 (634 views)
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pianos and safes and anvils oh my... [In reply to] Can't Post

its all going to fall.
True, its Bilbo's story - but we will love Thorin by the end (some of us already do cough, cough) and watching BILBO's pain at the end is going to be terrible too. In Rivendell when he is weeping I want to run in and hug him; I don't want Bilbo sad or hurting, never ever. Martin Freeman, I'm positive and afraid, is going to do it justice.

...she took the point at once, but she also took the spoons.


Brethil
Half-elven


Feb 9 2013, 3:28pm

Post #14 of 21 (652 views)
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Axes? [In reply to] Can't Post

Was thinking overnight they (Laketown) have to cut wood...might use saws but maybe some hand axes. Not the same as an Erebor walking axe but more in Dwarf comfort zone.

Wonder if that Rohan blade on Bilbo's wall might somehow come out of the pile (?) sort of a random Laketown mathom.

...she took the point at once, but she also took the spoons.


Angharad73
Rohan

Feb 9 2013, 3:50pm

Post #15 of 21 (630 views)
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That's what I fear... [In reply to] Can't Post

The ending was always going to be emotional, but now we have a bunch of rather excellent actors, who are going to milk the ending for all they can. I'm sure MF will manage to pull on the old heartstrings quite expertly. His Bilbo brings out a bit of a protective streak in me Unsure I don't even want to think about the dwarves...

I do hope that they keep the story with Orcrist like in the book, though.

And what about the other dwarves' weapons? Will they ever be returned to them? I'd like to think that Dwalin, for example, will get his Grasper and Keeper back eventually, if he has to leave them behind when escaping from Thranduil's place.


Bombadil
Half-elven


Feb 9 2013, 4:21pm

Post #16 of 21 (637 views)
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Check out The Chapter. ."Not at Home" [In reply to] Can't Post

Shields,
weapons,
musical instruments,
goblets..
a lot of Flotsum & Jetsom
for them
to dive into.

PJ is gonna make that
a great scene.


Brethil
Half-elven


Feb 9 2013, 4:51pm

Post #17 of 21 (624 views)
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yes true [In reply to] Can't Post

Lots of goodies.

...she took the point at once, but she also took the spoons.


Cirashala
Grey Havens

Feb 10 2013, 1:13am

Post #18 of 21 (604 views)
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orcrist and such-warning spoilers [In reply to] Can't Post

With orcrist, Elrond blessed Thorin with its use-essentially he could have kept it, especially since the sack of Gondolin was so tragic and since it was forged by the high elves of the west (hint-the noldorin exiles from Valinor) so for a scholarly and wise and noble Noldorin descended elf lord, allowing the sword to remain in Thorins (a dwarf's) possession was a huge act of goodwill, plus also Elrond was willing to aid them, despite his misgivings about their quest.

Thranduil, on the other hand, was a Sindarin elf sure, but no doubt he would be just as aware of this famous blade and the history surrounding it as Elrond was, or darn near to it. At the very least, he would likely be old enough to know the history of the sword, and with his hatred for dwarves and his unwillingness to aid them (unlike Elrond) I feel that it will be much like the book in that there-is-no-way-in-he**-I'm-letting-a-mere-dwarf-keep-this-sword, but I do feel that in respect for his accomplishments, and his willingness to aid the men and elves in the BO5A, that Thranduil will essentially redeem himself among the dwarves some by placing this magnificent sword atop thorins body in his tomb.

Besides, the dwarves escaped from cells whether they were being held prisoner without even their outer clothing (some of the prod vids show them in the barrels in their long underwear and such) let alone weapons, and it is highly unlikely that given the next time they meet Thranduil its in a very outnumbered battle and at the time they weren't winning he would take the time to say "hey, by the way, were were just arguing and you shot arrows at us in front of your gate an hour ago and I really hate your people and not a month ago had you filthy dwarves rotting in my dungeons which you managed to escape from much to our embarrassment, but I am feeling particulary gracious and since I have this famous sword that was forged in a legendary elven city that now lays under the ocean then stolen from my race during an awful sack of said great elven city that was besought with balrogs and other foul creatures of Morgoth and killing thousands of elves and then disappeared for nearly six thousand years only to be found by you a dwarf whom I despise, and since its not like we are surrounded by orcs and wargs that are intent on murdering us in the most horrific and cruel ways possible, would you like your sword back?"

Not likely IMO

Half Elven Daughter of Celethian of the Woodland Realm

(This post was edited by Cirashala on Feb 10 2013, 1:20am)


Rostron2
Gondor


Feb 10 2013, 3:07am

Post #19 of 21 (593 views)
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The artifacts on the wall in Bilbo's study [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, that's what I was thinking. He must have picked these up in his travels to Erebor and Laketown. The shield looks a little like the Dale designs.


FiliSonOfDis
Rivendell


Feb 11 2013, 7:00pm

Post #20 of 21 (511 views)
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here's a pic of some later dwarven weapons [In reply to] Can't Post

http://heirsofdurin.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/gloin-dwalin.jpg

they are in their post-lake town clothing, looks like dwalin has some giant mace and gloin a hammer? i think


Brethil
Half-elven


Feb 12 2013, 3:56am

Post #21 of 21 (559 views)
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Thanks [In reply to] Can't Post

Nice pic!

...she took the point at once, but she also took the spoons.

 
 

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