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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Negative thread about the movie

Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Grey Havens

Feb 7 2013, 6:09pm


Views: 1496
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Negative thread about the movie Can't Post

Hi all, well I dont know if this is necessary or not, all I wanted is to say what I feel. Iīm going to repeat some information that I posted before, and I wanted to expand them and add some new. I encourage to anyone who has a negative opinion please give arguments on why they think so and to express themselves. I think is healthy if it is done with respect. Take you time I know its too long but this is all I wanted to say I feel. All respect and love to PJ wich has done a very unique movies in the past that impressed me and opened my eyes to the art again.

Many of you know me from being here from time to time and being so enthusiastic about the movies and all that. Well I dont wana anybody to feel hurt but Im gona say some things I wanted to say because I feel bda because about the movie.

I donīt like the movie.

I was one of the most open minds here about the changes or not being close to the book. But I think I have the right to say what I don’t like it and Iīll try to do it with respect.

I went to the cinema with passion but after that every time I saw the movie it went worst. Why? the reason, I dinīt know it, and I wanted to like the movie but I couldnīt. The confirmation came weeks ago when I had the chance to see a fan cut of the movie. And this question came to me: How can you remove an entire hour of a film and get a shorter version that works anyway? Despite bieng better or worst it worked. Is like having a table with unnecesary legs because it stills on its feet. Thats what happened to me with the movie. And this fan cut worked better than the movie. I want to say that the movie had some very good moments anyway not all based on Tolkien so I give them a very sincere like to that.

This leads me to another conclusion, the nature of that decision of making 3 movies. You can tell me with all your wilingness that it was an artistical decision, but something in my heart brought me to this way. Something that grown on me despite of being surrounded by your all positive reviews here day by day. But I have to face it, Iīm not the fan I was because of this movie. Other could tell wisely: Donīt take it seriously. But I canīt. I canīt because I see in this motivations a universal problem. And in my country we have an enormous problem with the same nature: Dragon Sickness = Money.

I donīt want to blame directly PJ for I dont know if it was all his fault. But I can easely see PJ acting at the whim of WB, and the movie and the story itself in the end suffering from both whim, from WBīs and PJīs. From the first for wanting to make money and money, and money, and as for PJ for letting himself go with no contrition under the advise of WB of making 3 movies. I dont wanna think that the decission of making 3 came from PJ, I want to give him the benefit of doubt.

That decision flaws in many ways. And Iīm not sure if it is for this decision but many things are just wrong, or poor here. I dont even get close to think that the CGI is what it is because WB wanted to save money. But in many scenes there is a lack of originality. In the art book it says something like the goblins where planed to be prosthetic, and then all CGI and then prosthetic and then CGI again. I feel there is a strong lack of capacity to take straight decissions that make the the final product look weak.
Another CGI and bad decission that disturbed me was that video of Azanulbizar where Yazneg was the original look for Azog. The design was so poor, a very regular orc to say the least. Then they replaced him with the CGI Azog, that I want to say impressed me, until Thorin cuts his arm, at that moment the CGI on Azog gets poor, and it seems that it was a last minute decission to have him alive, despite the Azanulbizar flashback. later I will give explanation of my reasons on that.

Some weak shots as well, for example a moment in the warg chase when Thorin faces the hunters and there is a shoot of his face and then to Orchirst, but that shot for me is so weird, the camera even doesnīt end up with showing the entire sword, sudenly there is a cut to another shoot. Is like it was a weak editing on tha,t and your brain gets the impresion that something weird is happening.

Lets not talk about all the added material. I dont buy it at all thought I was one of the most open mind. Why is that? Because as I said having seen the fan cut, you realize that the TENSION appears when you cut all the stuff that is nor relevant to the quest. Your mind gets confused and bored with other material that presented in other place or way could have been interesting. But for example, since Bilbo gets Sting, you lose him until he tries to leave the company. Or for example the with council (though being a cool thing itself and well done) how on earth you put a scene with 5 or 7 minutes of duration that talks about things that are not going to be near concluded in a short time frame, or in the movie itself, sacrifying your main characters not being present on the screen for such a long time??? It drags our atention on Thorinīs quest.

In LOTR we spent a lot of time with Frodo and Sam offscreen but what is happening wile they are in their journey to Mordor is essential and has an inmediate impact on the development of their quest. Here is not the case, since in the book, (and Iīm refering to the book to have a strong base to my statement, for there is no need to refer even to the book since the movie itself flaws) the quest takes place without a strong connection of the events concerning the Necromancer.

Iīm angry with this, you can say that since they paid for the rights they are able to do so. I say NO. Why? Because they are done a job of doing what they think that Tolkien would have done since there is a hint that he wanted to rewrite the book. For whatever reason he didnīt and the money they paid for the rights doesnīt legitimate for me what they have done. They are not the cerators of the story. Another reason if you want, they are selling a movie, and in those advertisments it says : The Hobbit. Is that false publicity?

You could say that I am able of going to see the movie or not. But here I want so say one more thing. Sadly, LOVE is a value in the market. And this videoblogs driving us to the spoiler beyond reasoning, and all the merchandaising that is popping here and there is a dark bussines. Why? Since they know that we are fans of a story that was wrtiten by a person that probably had to go torugh very hard times to print this kind of personality to the story they are playing with our feelings in order to empty our wallets. This is free market, you could say, well I dont see it as a good thing precisely. You want a proof? Why they dont release all the DVD movie versions at the same time? That, for me, would have been fair, but they donīt, because they want to play with our anxiousness about getting our beloved story in a film. Isnīt that strong fight within yourselves concernign about seeing or not seeing the spoilers, getting the regular DVD now or waiting to December for the EE, telling you that something is going wrong?

Now I am gonna dare to say how some things could have worked better and still being fair to the fans and the books.

Our belvoed story in a movie?

Well here Iīm going to refer what I saw in that fan cut and why it definetly opened my eyes:

The movie I saw follwed like this:

-It opens directly with young Bilbo, there is enough info in that conversation between Gandalf and Bilbo to have a clue of who they are.
-Then it follows as the movie until Thorin arrives and they discuss the mission
-The prologue is inserted just after Bilbo says: The Lonely Mountain...-looking at the map. The following shoot drive us into Middle Earth map until Erebor. The mention of Frodo is cutted. And the voice of Ian Holm fits because we havent heard all the dwrves talk so it seems that is one of them who is telling the story. Note that is easier to recognize Thorin and Balin having the prologue later.
-Then we get back to Oin refering the prophecy. But the bit where Bilbo asks about Smaug is out, instead Ori explodes in that : I have no fear!...-It works.
-Then Bilbo faints and they cut to the misty mountains song, we see that Bilbo is on his bed. No dialogue between Balin and Thorin. No dialogue between Gandalf and Bilbo.
-Then Bilbo awakes, sees the contract and runs off and joins the dwarves. The hanquechief secuence and that where Gandalf tells that he never doubted of Bilbo are gone. When Bilbo oins the dwarves Gndalf makes a wonderfull sight to him, so it works because its all said in a single sight.
-THey cut to Gandalfs speech about entering into the wild, and then the Trolls. It works, the pacing is excyting.
-The trolls(as in the movie)
-The swords(as in the movie)
-Then right after Bilbo gets sting there is a shoot of the company and then we see them in the small corridor that leads them to Rivendell. It works not having all the wargs, there is a point now and it is to resolve the map wich is discussed right before the trolls.
-Rivendell: They arrive and Gandalf tells to Lindir that he needs to talk with Elrond, then they cut directly when Elrond and Gandalf are entering to the dinning room(wich is the same place where the council oof Elrond took place). Then wile eating all the dwarves okes since bag end are gone, I didnt miss them. Elrond and Thorin talk about the swords, the bit between Bilbo and Balin is gone, I liked this bit but I didnīt miss it too much. Every mention to Azog or the orc chase is gone.
-Moon letters(as in the movie)
-They leave Rivendell right after this, there is a mistery on where is Gandalf. The misty mountains at last.
-Stone giants(as in the movie)
-There is not a single orc or Azog scene here and nowhere until the very end.
-Goblins Gollum (as in the movie) well here there is a nice moment. When the golbin kin says to Thorin that he has no mountain and he is nobody, we see the face of Thorin and then the face of Bilbo . In the original movie this is diferent since we have the scribe going to tell Azog. But this two shots one inmediatly after the other conect the two main characters in a such magic moment, I loved this a lot. Magic.
-The falling bridge is gone. You can see the bridge starting to fall and then they cut to the dwarves hitting the ground, it makes sense because its well executed and gives you the feeling that is a shorter fall. Well we can see no wounds in that massive falling. And then having Kili stopping those arrows with his sword, and even those arrows that wherent stoped by his sword get carved into that piece of wood right before his face. Then I think in the poor Boromir, and I canīt understand why Boromir didnīt decide to stop those arrows and not dying.
-Then Bilboīs speech and the wolves moaning and the company runs to the trees, Azog is not seen yet.
Then Azog arrives but there is no mention of who he is, he is only a very menacing regular orc and it works. Then the trees and Ori and Dori hanging , and there is no fight between Thorin and Azog the eagles just arrive in time. I told before that I would explain something about Azog. Well I think I had the feeling that something was going wrong. It was that with this cut I saw so clear that no matter what you do with Azog, if you kill him at Azanulbizar, if you make him come back but not facing Thorin , if you make him face Thorin and die. No matter what you do with him because it didnīt matter actually for the quest.
-THe eagles take away the dwarves. There is not a single shot of Thorin wounded, only you can see Gandalf looking around worried but its made that you have the feeling that he is looking at The Carroc that appears. Then the eagles leave the company and there is no hugh between Bilbo and Thorin only they smile eah other wich makes sense after Bilboīs speech.
Then they see Erebor and the movie ends.

Only1:42 minutes.And it works.

It has a very exciting path and its focused all the time on Thorins quest and Bilbos journey.

Then I have another surprise.

The Withe Council, a short movie with all the wizard scenes and it goes like this:

-We see Radagast in the forest, all the ill animals stuff and the psiders.
-Rady enters Dol Guldur and finds the Necromancer, Rady flees.
-Then they use the shots where Rady flees from the Wargs and all the shots of the dwarves are gone so it seems that Rady is fleeing from Dol Guldur and abandoning Mirkwood. The last shot is that orc that in the movie stops and smells the dwarves. Here it seems that they have lost Radagast.
-Radagast finds Gandalf and tells him about Dol Guldur. All the comical things like the insect and the smoking are gona, and it works we have a more serious Radagast than before.
-Then Gandalf goes to Rivendell and the withe council takes place. All the references to Smaug or the dwarves or Bilbo are gone. And it works. I dare to say that with the material we will get in DOS and TABA it will make a worth watch of an hour movie about wizards and elves and dark business.

Well all this said, some of you could tell how a mere mortals dare to make a fan cut and sugest that it works better than the movie. IT does. The shorter the better, the more acurate to the book the greater interest into Thorinīs quest. I wonder if they would have been only two movies what an awesome we could get if with only 1:42 minutes we arrive to the carroc and we could have had Beorn and an anargic end of persecution of the warg riders and then Mirkwood and Thranduil. When you have to do something so easy to do, that is adapt The Hobbit a story that goes straight from the begining to the end and you just fail when you are a very cualified person, something is going wrong. The book deserves justice. Not money grabing. I have paid my ticket several times I tried very hard but I canīt. My heart is telling me that something is not well done here.

I understand changes I was and I think I am, an open mind. Changes are necessary in order to adapt a book with more than 1000 pages to be able to be told in three sesions of three ours long. Because for The Hobbit it doesnt work to have three movies with a book that is short one but not in a bad way. It needs to be short to have that soul!!!

But we have three movies and I feel disguissed in a decision for making for fans. Even if its truly for that, its not a legitimate decission because you kill the soul. Is like a bad storyteller that starts talking into another bussines and finishes boring his audience.

Now merchandaising.

Despite the art books wich I respect because I find fascinating all the artwork that has been done. Im not gonna talk about all those toys and all that wich Im sure Tolkien would have disliked. What would have being fair to us, the fans is to release as I said all the types of editions at the same time, so you could choose.

A very unique proof of respect to the fans and to the books is that they would have added to the EE an extra material f the With Council. We the fans would have literally devoured it. But of course its better to do three movies, ad that material despite yo kill the story under tones of irrelevant material to Thorinīs quest. But that would have been so fair, and a unique piece of kindness in this marketing world.

The EE would have been more than worthy to spent, instead of that we will have a longer version of the movie that would add some unnecesary scenes, and I dare to say some ridiculous ones: remember the corsairs, Erech and the drinking game? Ok there where some good, bt the average between good and bad balances to the bad. And we as a fans of the legacy of Tolkien should have been up to ask some more cualified added material to the story. If you have something really good then add it, if not, donīt mess with the story. That is respect.In fact in The Hobbit there is a couple of this added moments that are good, like when Bilbo gets Sting.I am up for that.But I fear the EE wont bring us that in a money worthy level.

Long ago I wrote a letter to 3 foot 7 trying to get a job as an extra and repeating my own words I told them: please aim to the main point of the story because you are about to touch many millions hearts.

Iīm sorry and my point is not hurting anyone, and with all my respects to PJ and all folk, but I wanted to express the feelings of a fan that is not such now. I tried to give reasons to my thoughts and I hope everyone find it respectfull despite not agree with me.

But remember my words when within a year we will see Kili having a thing with Tauriel, and Galadriel carrying away Gandalf. I hope I am wrong but I fear Iīm not.

Iīm sorry with the spelling mystakes and if this has hurt someone, that wasnīt my point at all.

Hollywood has reached WellingtonUnsure

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true!

Subject User Time
Negative thread about the movie Mr. Arkenstone (isaac) Send a private message to Mr. Arkenstone (isaac) Feb 7 2013, 6:09pm
    And I wanted to ad a possitive thing. Mr. Arkenstone (isaac) Send a private message to Mr. Arkenstone (isaac) Feb 7 2013, 6:26pm
    perhaps elevorn Send a private message to elevorn Feb 7 2013, 6:36pm
        now that is a civilizated answer Mr. Arkenstone (isaac) Send a private message to Mr. Arkenstone (isaac) Feb 7 2013, 6:56pm
    I think the movie was too long Ayiana Send a private message to Ayiana Feb 7 2013, 6:54pm
        Agreed Lusitano Send a private message to Lusitano Feb 7 2013, 9:53pm
    I'm very sorry sador Send a private message to sador Feb 7 2013, 7:43pm
    Disagree shadowdog Send a private message to shadowdog Feb 7 2013, 7:56pm
        But for a viewer, it is a single movie, also. arithmancer Send a private message to arithmancer Feb 7 2013, 8:15pm
        This has Always Been My Argument IdrilofGondolin Send a private message to IdrilofGondolin Feb 8 2013, 1:07am
            Ditto Eowyn3 Send a private message to Eowyn3 Feb 8 2013, 1:29am
            Fellowship, two towers Lusitano Send a private message to Lusitano Feb 8 2013, 1:31am
                Agreed again jtarkey Send a private message to jtarkey Feb 8 2013, 6:42am
                    Exactly Lusitano Send a private message to Lusitano Feb 8 2013, 2:04pm
    Finally Lusitano Send a private message to Lusitano Feb 7 2013, 9:03pm
        Hmm macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Feb 7 2013, 9:32pm
            Not that Lusitano Send a private message to Lusitano Feb 7 2013, 9:51pm
            Hasty assumption? Macfeast Send a private message to Macfeast Feb 7 2013, 9:53pm
                Well said Macfeast Lusitano Send a private message to Lusitano Feb 7 2013, 10:06pm
        I disagree Rufus Send a private message to Rufus Feb 7 2013, 10:32pm
            Well Lusitano Send a private message to Lusitano Feb 7 2013, 10:58pm
                We should agree to differ Rufus Send a private message to Rufus Feb 8 2013, 8:58am
                    Really? Lusitano Send a private message to Lusitano Feb 8 2013, 2:06pm
            I see a trend here Rostron2 Send a private message to Rostron2 Feb 8 2013, 4:22pm
                I dont really wish he would have directed... jtarkey Send a private message to jtarkey Feb 8 2013, 6:28pm
        Agreed Lusitano tolktolk Send a private message to tolktolk Feb 7 2013, 10:55pm
            Those are, i think my main complaints Tolktok Lusitano Send a private message to Lusitano Feb 7 2013, 11:06pm
        I agree with pretty much all of this jtarkey Send a private message to jtarkey Feb 7 2013, 11:20pm
            He is basically absent in Rivendell (which looked totally over lit and fake) and you are never able to understand why he loves the place so much, or why he's even on the adventure in the first place. They didn't really delve into why Bilbo wants to be the Lusitano Send a private message to Lusitano Feb 8 2013, 12:57am
            well elostirion74 Send a private message to elostirion74 Feb 8 2013, 8:45pm
            i feel the exact same way Elenorflower Send a private message to Elenorflower Feb 10 2013, 11:06pm
    Okay, nice case as stated. Rostron2 Send a private message to Rostron2 Feb 7 2013, 10:06pm
    I completely understand where you're coming from, and although I don't agree/share those opinions, I can understand... Xanaseb Send a private message to Xanaseb Feb 8 2013, 1:32am
        Xana Lusitano Send a private message to Lusitano Feb 8 2013, 1:35am
            yeah I think you're right, I'm just stirring up trouble rofl. I do apologise ;). There's no backlash, I am simply overreacting hehehe Xanaseb Send a private message to Xanaseb Feb 8 2013, 2:13am
                Eh Lusitano Send a private message to Lusitano Feb 8 2013, 2:34am
        I wouldn't call it backlash Elessar Send a private message to Elessar Feb 8 2013, 1:52am
    Thanks for posting Súlimë Send a private message to Súlimë Feb 8 2013, 2:35am
    My only thought cats16 Send a private message to cats16 Feb 8 2013, 4:55am
    This sums it up well in a fun way pettytyrant101 Send a private message to pettytyrant101 Feb 8 2013, 3:24pm
    I wonder MouthofSauron Send a private message to MouthofSauron Feb 9 2013, 12:43am
        Not entirely fair SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Feb 9 2013, 1:20am
            Do you think Gollum looked better in LotR? Kassandros Send a private message to Kassandros Feb 9 2013, 1:35am
                Good point SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Feb 9 2013, 2:00am
                    How about the wargs? Kassandros Send a private message to Kassandros Feb 12 2013, 3:46pm
        Now now Elessar Send a private message to Elessar Feb 9 2013, 1:37am
        Peter Jackson is the best director for the job.End of story. Lusitano Send a private message to Lusitano Feb 9 2013, 2:36am
            no because they think they can do better MouthofSauron Send a private message to MouthofSauron Feb 9 2013, 4:52am
                Bad Reasoning JWPlatt Feb 9 2013, 4:57am
                    It's called being human. Escapist Send a private message to Escapist Feb 9 2013, 5:03am
                        Directors JWPlatt Feb 9 2013, 5:13am
                            Gladly Escapist Send a private message to Escapist Feb 9 2013, 5:18am
                                Not The Point JWPlatt Feb 9 2013, 6:21am
                                    The customer is always right imin Send a private message to imin Feb 9 2013, 11:42am
                    I'd also like to note Escapist Send a private message to Escapist Feb 9 2013, 5:08am
                    nope, its logical reasoning compared to.... MouthofSauron Send a private message to MouthofSauron Feb 9 2013, 8:09am
                        The Converse JWPlatt Feb 9 2013, 5:11pm
                            oh really? MouthofSauron Send a private message to MouthofSauron Feb 9 2013, 7:48pm
                                No JWPlatt Feb 9 2013, 7:52pm
                                    my point was not.. MouthofSauron Send a private message to MouthofSauron Feb 9 2013, 7:55pm
                                        Balance JWPlatt Feb 9 2013, 8:04pm
                                            Agreed Lusitano Send a private message to Lusitano Feb 10 2013, 1:46am
                                                Well, that's an argument for criticizing AUJ if ever I've heard one... Roheryn Send a private message to Roheryn Feb 10 2013, 10:39am
                                                    You misunderstood Lusitano Send a private message to Lusitano Feb 10 2013, 2:35pm
                                            Thatīs the point Mr. Arkenstone (isaac) Send a private message to Mr. Arkenstone (isaac) Feb 10 2013, 3:27pm
                Plenty of director out there could have done a better job. Lusitano Send a private message to Lusitano Feb 9 2013, 2:59pm
                    "I could have a hobbit film without that stuff", -fine.. MouthofSauron Send a private message to MouthofSauron Feb 9 2013, 7:50pm
                        Youre impossible to talk with Lusitano Send a private message to Lusitano Feb 10 2013, 1:41am
                            really?? MouthofSauron Send a private message to MouthofSauron Feb 10 2013, 2:12am
                                At no point Lusitano Send a private message to Lusitano Feb 10 2013, 3:34am
                            Let's take a break entmaiden Send a private message to entmaiden Feb 10 2013, 4:11am
                                Fair enough Lusitano Send a private message to Lusitano Feb 10 2013, 2:36pm
                Just because you've asked sador Send a private message to sador Feb 9 2013, 7:57pm
                    the other thing is too MouthofSauron Send a private message to MouthofSauron Feb 9 2013, 8:01pm
        This is largely a matter of taste. Escapist Send a private message to Escapist Feb 9 2013, 5:12am
    Replies, replies for many of you Mr. Arkenstone (isaac) Send a private message to Mr. Arkenstone (isaac) Feb 10 2013, 3:26pm
        Bravo, isaac Altaira Send a private message to Altaira Feb 10 2013, 5:23pm
            Thanks to you Mr. Arkenstone (isaac) Send a private message to Mr. Arkenstone (isaac) Feb 10 2013, 7:18pm
                Respect Elessar Send a private message to Elessar Feb 10 2013, 8:11pm
                    Respect is due Lusitano Send a private message to Lusitano Feb 10 2013, 8:18pm
                        That sounds painful Elessar Send a private message to Elessar Feb 10 2013, 8:57pm
        Hi isaac! Lusitano Send a private message to Lusitano Feb 10 2013, 8:16pm
    Nicely done! Aragalen the Green Send a private message to Aragalen the Green Feb 10 2013, 8:48pm
    hi isaac I feel the same way Elenorflower Send a private message to Elenorflower Feb 10 2013, 11:10pm
        Hi Elenor! Mr. Arkenstone (isaac) Send a private message to Mr. Arkenstone (isaac) Feb 12 2013, 10:58am
            for me 'derivative' in TH Elenorflower Send a private message to Elenorflower Feb 12 2013, 6:48pm

 
 
 

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