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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Absolutely Horrid
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Estel78
Tol Eressea

Feb 7 2013, 1:00pm

Post #76 of 148 (528 views)
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I do have problems with the film [In reply to] Can't Post

But here i gotta disagree. The losing home is a reoccurring theme in the movie and by emphasizing that they create an emotional pull that the book doesn't. Of course some of the silliness then undermines it.


In Reply To
I like to feel I am intelligently stating my opinions, and not attacking people who love the film. I also love a lot of things about it. But IN MY OPINION, the film could have done a better job at drawing in a general movie-going audience. If the production was able to invent story-lines and characters that didn't exist in the original book, then they could have invented an emotional pull to the film as well. But they didn't. They went for action, CGI, and silliness instead.



sharpened_graphite
Rivendell

Feb 7 2013, 2:56pm

Post #77 of 148 (473 views)
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Yes, I think I would! [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm a huge fan not only of Peter Jackson, but also of the other talent working on the movie, especially Howard Shore, Alan Lee and John Howe. And it's their work that I mainly appreciate about the movie.

You may call it "silly bloated garbage", but let's see you write a score as good or design environments & creatures as beautiful as the people mentioned above. A LOT of work goes into a movie like this, if they wanted Money, they'd just put the latest popular star in it and slap on some trendy music with pop culture references. You don't design Bag End with as much verisimilitude as possible or strive to create the best Dragon yet put on film or tackle the challenge of fourteen plus protagonists in a three hour movie for Money. This is all done for the sake of creating a good film.

YOU may not like the end result, which is perfectly fine, we all have different tastes and preferences (I can't stand Picasso!), and for that matter AUJ doesn't live up to my mental image of the book (there's a lot there I'd have done differently). But it doesn't mean that it's a bad film or that there isn't a lot of beauty in it. If you can't see it, well, I think it's your lack of perception. If you have specific criticisms about the movie laid out in a thorough and thoughtful post, that'd be actually something valuable and worth reading. Just calling a film "money grabbing garbage" doesn't cut it.


Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Grey Havens

Feb 7 2013, 3:21pm

Post #78 of 148 (448 views)
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well the diference [In reply to] Can't Post

Is that some if not many of those places have worked in the past for milions, and they knew people would like both places and music, and thats what we get. Except Erebor there is no new big deal.

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true!


xxxyyy
Rohan

Feb 7 2013, 3:25pm

Post #79 of 148 (454 views)
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Don't worry, everyone fails once in a lifetime. [In reply to] Can't Post

 

http://energyfromthorium.com/


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Feb 7 2013, 3:37pm

Post #80 of 148 (443 views)
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Okay, sport [In reply to] Can't Post

you say that there is no character development. Sorry, you are wrong. By the end of AUJ, Bilbo is already a somewhat different hobbit than he started out as being. And we see Thorin warming to the hafling. And we still have the second and third films to go (keeping in mind that the character arcs for our two main leads are already pretty much set in stone by Tolkien).

Sure, some elements are over-the-top--troll-snot, the stone-giants, the Goblin King--but I expect some of that from Peter Jackson.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

(This post was edited by Altaira on Feb 8 2013, 3:18am)


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Feb 7 2013, 3:38pm

Post #81 of 148 (467 views)
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You certainly do have a right to express your opinions [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
When did speaking one's mind become trolling? Just as others have the right to express their love for the "film," I have the right to express my distaste. And I shall.

You certainly do have a right to express your opinions, and that is one of the reasons this is called a "discussion board". It also means that others have a right to express their opinions on your opinion. That's what makes it fun. You certainly have gotten a successful thread here, judging by the number of views!

I will point out however, that the definition of "troll" (from Wikipedia) is: "In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers."(underlines mine). Your original post is a sweeping statement of negativity, without redeeming itself through thoughtful, reasoned explanations of what you didn't like; such as:

Quote
I'm sorry, but I fail to see how this disgusting "film" is even remotely decent. Can you even call this garbage a film?

I would call this inflammatory, and that is why most of the responses are knee-jerk reactions (sorry friends!). I would highly recommend reading other threads to see why others do and don't like the film, and their thoughtful, reasoned explanations. It may help explain why others here are reacting in such a defensive manner. When someone attacks, the instinct is to attack back or become defensive. If you would like serious feedback, tactful wording of your thoughts may give you the results you want. That's not to say that everyone is thoughtful and tactful, just that the most successful discussions are those with clear views and opinions without attacking why others like something another person may not.

'"Never laugh at live dragons, Bilbo you fool!" he said to himself, and it became a favourite saying of his later, and passed into a proverb.'


(This post was edited by Altaira on Feb 8 2013, 3:19am)


pettytyrant101
Lorien


Feb 7 2013, 3:44pm

Post #82 of 148 (455 views)
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For me there are two issues here- [In reply to] Can't Post

the first is that there is certainly a perception that it is very hard on ToRn to offer any sort of complaint of PJ's Tolkien based works without what has occured here happening: 3 pages of people shouting down the OP, calling them a troll (I was accused of this myself in the past), or making silly statements that imply thinking PJ did a less than stellar job means you dont think anyone invovled with the film did anything right or were any good.

There is a good reason ToRn has a reputaion as being the home of PJ fan boys who will not tolerate any negativity about their favourite films- this thread rather indicates why that reputation persists, even if it might not be strictly true.


The second point is the problems with the films themselves.

I would agree that the OP post was not the most diplomatically worded OP ever, but that does not make the points or post, or opinion invalid either.
In my view there is much to complain about in PJ's films, particuarly as adaptations of the source material, but also just as films.
Which brings me to TH.

It is in my view a very average film that could have been a timeless classic film.
But somehow it is not, I think even the most vervant PJ fan here would not claim TH was the greatest film of all time, or even one of the greatest childrens films of all time. (I would agrue PJ's verion is not even suitable for the target audience of the book)

So the question then is why is not a classic film?
Well it is almost exaclty split 50/50 between an adaptation of the book and stuff PJ made up.

Claims that he was drawing on the appendix ect had some limited credibility before we had all seen the film, but it has vey little now we have as nothing has survived even close to intact from the appendix without huge alterations in service of the stuff PJ has made up.

Those additions PJ has made, particuarly the very artificial (in practise, feel and look) insertion of Azog into the story to give it more impetus is pretty disasterous.

During these parts PJ tries to recreate a tone suited to his LotR's film, but he has to sit it alongside whimsical moment like the Crack the Plates song. And it does not work well at all I would say, as the two tones clash from the off.

And that is leaving aside the way Azog just pops up whenever the script needs him without otherwise any rymne nor reason, nor the subpar pulp fantasy book dialogue.

I also think the opening prolgue was a mistake- I do think having old Bilbo narrate was a good idea, this is in keeping with the narrators voice present throughout the book and the conceit Tolkien got it all from the Redbook- but all the Erebor and Dale stuff, whilst pretty and bombastic is completely the wrong mood to begin TH with, Bilbo is an unsuitable narrator for that information, and its irrelevant because all the information divulged in it comes out in the telling of the story later anyway.

Its main purpose seems to be to have a big opening to the film wih some action and lots of effects. That seems to fit in with PJ's view, expressed throughout his LotR's work that his audience is largely a bit dim and will stop watching if something effects laden and blatantly exciting doesnt happen right away.

In fact its this thinking (beyond needing filler to stretch it to a trilogy) which seems to be behind the inclusion of Azog and much of the other more ridiculous unnecessary action scenes- dwarf/troll fight-bunny sled/warg chase/ -stone giants fairground ride, everything in the Goblin Town escape- Thorin proving he cant fight worth tuppence to Azog/ Bilbo killing a warg and orc, proving he is a much better fighter than Thorin, who is truelly pathetic..

For me the obvious way to deal with the difference in tone between TH and LotR's was to have Bilbo narrate the tale to a young Frodo and Sam.

This is in keeping with the book as we know Sam has been listening to Bilbo's tales all his life. And more importantly it allows for the difference in tone as it can be explaind as Bilbo telling the tale suitably for a child audience. It would also have been much shorter. And the opening sequence is far to long, as especially as nothing of any relevance beyond 'oh look its Frodo!- doesnt he look older?' happens in most of it. And as to altering the final line for no good, or even apparent reason, of the opening famous, iconic paragraph I am at a lost for any reasonable explanation. The only thing I can think of is that PJ deliberetly wanted to stick two fingers up to people like me who think his handling of Tolkien's dialogue and language throughout the adaptations has been nothing short of disgraceful.

Now these are just a few initial points, I could of course go on to give reasons and explainations for many more things about the film I thought were poorly handled or detrimental to Tolkiens original tales. (And people on here always complain those who are negative dont give thought out reasons, so I have offered some).

The point I suppose is that there should be room on any forum for a wide variety of view to be able to be expresed and debated without it becoming accussations of trolling and other unpleasantness right from the off.


(This post was edited by pettytyrant101 on Feb 7 2013, 3:53pm)


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Feb 7 2013, 3:46pm

Post #83 of 148 (429 views)
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Over-simplification... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
How do you know there isn't enough material for three movies? Have you seen the whole triology? I think it's too early for complaints like this...


This isn't rocket science.

LOTR-1500 pages-3 movies.
TH-300 pages-3 movies?

It's so obviously a cash grab, and I feel so sorry for anyone else who doesn't realize this! Frown



It is not that simple and you should know that. LotR was deliberately compressed and condensed to keep it down to three films. The less complex narrative structure of The Hobbit was expanded to round out the world of Middle-earth, providing a more complete environment for the characters to inhabit. The addition of the Appendices material just adds to that.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Feb 7 2013, 4:10pm

Post #84 of 148 (411 views)
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I won't argue about Jackson being prone to excess... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think that King Kong proved decisively that Peter Jackson needs someone to occasionally slap him on the nose with a rolled-up newspaper and say "Bad director! Cut some of this!" A good creator ("writer" in the original quote) has to know when to kill his babies.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Feb 7 2013, 4:12pm)


Kassandros
Rohan


Feb 7 2013, 4:14pm

Post #85 of 148 (414 views)
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Yeah, we are shamefully turning a blind eye to all the faults. [In reply to] Can't Post

I admit - I enjoyed the movie. I didn't let the parts I didn't like as much or might have done differently ruin it for me and instead enjoyed it for all the wonderful moments. I am such an awful person for this. I'm so sorry. I really wish I could hate the movie. But I like it. Shame on me. Shame on me.

all we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us...


andwise
Rivendell


Feb 7 2013, 4:20pm

Post #86 of 148 (387 views)
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i think.... [In reply to] Can't Post

You're taking all this far too seriously my boy...in the words of jack sparrow 'you need to find your self a girl mate...'

Arrow....black arrow,I have saved you to the last.you have never failed me and always I have recovered you.I had you from my father and he from old.if ever you came from the forges of the true king under the mountain,go now and speed well


Kassandros
Rohan


Feb 7 2013, 4:23pm

Post #87 of 148 (388 views)
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Your use of capitalization prooves you're a troll. [In reply to] Can't Post

I really wish people wouldn't take this so seriously. The admins should delete this thread and ban this user immediately, IMO. Others have reported this same user trolling other forums.

all we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us...


macfalk
Valinor


Feb 7 2013, 4:36pm

Post #88 of 148 (386 views)
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Yeah, I've also seen the username Phibbus trolling on IMDB // [In reply to] Can't Post

 



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


macfalk
Valinor


Feb 7 2013, 4:47pm

Post #89 of 148 (363 views)
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It was his first post. [In reply to] Can't Post

And he starts with "Absolutely horrid" and then continues his rant in CAPS LOCK. Questionable.



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.

(This post was edited by Altaira on Feb 8 2013, 3:23am)


painjoiker
Grey Havens


Feb 7 2013, 5:18pm

Post #90 of 148 (364 views)
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Can you even call this an opinion? [In reply to] Can't Post

Absolutely not! It's a disgrace to PJ's classic. Wink

Vocalist in the progressive metal band Renamed.

(This post was edited by Altaira on Feb 8 2013, 1:57am)


Vangalad
Lorien


Feb 7 2013, 5:27pm

Post #91 of 148 (342 views)
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Can't see why we keep feeding this [In reply to] Can't Post

Why not ignore it?

His purpose is achieved it seems...


All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost,
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Feb 7 2013, 5:44pm

Post #92 of 148 (333 views)
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It's like picking at a scab. [In reply to] Can't Post

You know you shouldn't, but it's so tempting and hard to ignore!

'"Never laugh at live dragons, Bilbo you fool!" he said to himself, and it became a favourite saying of his later, and passed into a proverb.'


Aunt Dora Baggins
Half-elven


Feb 7 2013, 6:41pm

Post #93 of 148 (291 views)
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*Mods way up!* // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Aunt Dora Baggins
Half-elven


Feb 7 2013, 6:47pm

Post #94 of 148 (288 views)
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I always try to get my decent can-toys through sorry Denny's. [In reply to] Can't Post

That was hilarious! And very femine.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



elevorn
Lorien


Feb 7 2013, 6:50pm

Post #95 of 148 (290 views)
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Ooo lemme try [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm pantless, but I fail to see how this wellfit "film" is even remotely decent. Can you even call this buttonfly a film? Gracious goodness me! It's a disgrace to Tolkien's pants A shameless cash grab stitch, solely for the purpose of adventuring through cheap Lego toys and Denny's meals.
And speaking of which, WHY is it a pantleg? There is simply nowhere near enough legroom to justify THREE THREE HOUR LONG "films" even with the added stuff from the my pocketses, which only causes an unbalanced tone and useless exposition.
Just snug. __32, and that's being hopeful. One of the worst "films" ever made, save for "Lord of the Pants".

Wait did I do this in the wrong thread?Tongue



"clever hobbits to climb so high!"
Check out my writing www.jdstudios.wordpress.com


Aunt Dora Baggins
Half-elven


Feb 7 2013, 6:59pm

Post #96 of 148 (292 views)
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Who are you calling "boys"? [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
There is a good reason ToRn has a reputaion as being the home of PJ fan boys


TORn is a very femine place.

Actually, your post was well thought-out and written. I'm a rabid Tolkien fan, but not rabid about the movies (LotR included), though I enjoy them for what they are.

I didn't see anybody shouting in this thread, though, except for the OP. Giggling and pointing, perhaps.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Aunt Dora Baggins
Half-elven


Feb 7 2013, 7:02pm

Post #97 of 148 (263 views)
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Excellent! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Aunt Dora Baggins
Half-elven


Feb 7 2013, 7:05pm

Post #98 of 148 (365 views)
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Because it's fun. [In reply to] Can't Post

Not quite up there with the femine thread, perhaps. But there have been some laugh-out-loud posts in this thread.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



SirDennisC
Half-elven


Feb 7 2013, 7:47pm

Post #99 of 148 (353 views)
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Yes, I think that's the point. [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought it quite funny. Laugh

I'm a little disappointed no one called me on:

"If you swim with sharks, you're gonna get burned"

which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Sly


arithmancer
Grey Havens

Feb 7 2013, 7:52pm

Post #100 of 148 (332 views)
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Sure it does! [In reply to] Can't Post

 http://guy.com/a/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/7_Pyros-shark-Zippo-lighter.jpeg

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