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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Appendices already say that they are sent from The Lords of The West.

AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Feb 7 2013, 4:10pm


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The Appendices already say that they are sent from The Lords of The West. [In reply to] Can't Post

Who in other places in the appendices are mentioned as the Valar. Melian, mother of Luthien, is also once mentioned therein as being "of the divine race of the Valar." It also clearly stated that they were sent to contest Sauron, and to unite all people and creatures of goodwill, but were forbidden to match his power with their power, or to dominate Elves or men by force or by fear etc. All of this is IN the appendices of Lord of The Rings, to which they have access. It is worth noting, however, that all of the Lord of The Rings movie Tie In books (Visual companions, official guides etc.) all speak extensively of the Wizards as Maiar.

As to what they want to do. . . that may be the problem. Phillipa Boyens seems to want to portray Galadriel as the hands down most powerful being in Middle-Earth, with no need for tests to prove the claim and no thought for Istari, Bombadil or a Balrog, and seemingly not for The Necromancer. Saruman also is head of The Council because Gandalf refused the position, being unwilling to be answerable to any save those who sent him, and because Saruman had the most Ring lore. The lay person watching, however, will almost inevitably see Galadriel as being superior. That is they way it is played. Not disrespectful but dominant, in a way not appropraite for that particular relationship.

When I say reverent, I don't expect her to be in any way in awe of Gandalf. He would not desire such a thing, and she would be less likely than most to exhibit it. But reverent respect, at least as deep as that which he seemed to show for her in these films.

In Reply To
The filmmakers can't go into the origins of the Istari or even hint at it, most likely. We Tolkienites know that the wizards are Maiar spirits sent from the Uttermost West. We know that Galadriel deduced their true nature. But this is information from Unfinished Tales, a text that Jackson and his team don't have the rights to. They're not going to show Galadriel honoring Gandalf as a holy messenger.

And what's more, I don't think they would want to. The intended effect of that scene was to show the two of them as (very) old friends. They show compassion for each other, the mutual respect of equals, and even a sly secret joke via telepathy. I never got the sense that Galadriel was disrespecting Gandalf or that he was showing servitude to her. The White Council were played as peers, with Saruman as de facto leader due to being head of the wizard order.

I don't think there's anything wrong with this interpretation. Even ignoring the legal issues, Galadriel has lived alongside Maiar in the West, studied with Melian, and has served on a council with the Istari for hundreds of years. After a while, I imagine the awe and reverence wears off and one comes to think of them as simply friends.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

Subject User Time
A continuing vexation over the seeming lack of reverance shown by Galadriel to Gandalf, despite her knowledge of what he is and her high esteem of him. I hope they will rectify this in the coming films. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Feb 6 2013, 10:23pm
    They've gone to too much trouble... Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Feb 6 2013, 11:14pm
        It is shameful. Him being a Great Wizard (and a Holy Spirit veiled in flesh) does not AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Feb 6 2013, 11:30pm
            Quite shameful indeed! Kassandros Send a private message to Kassandros Feb 7 2013, 4:05pm
                We should take both of those options under advisement, and AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Feb 7 2013, 4:24pm
                    On a more serious note... Kassandros Send a private message to Kassandros Feb 7 2013, 4:40pm
                        Actually, there is a very intimate encounter between them which Tolkien relays, AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Feb 7 2013, 4:49pm
                            UT material Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Feb 7 2013, 5:06pm
                                I agree... Ereinion Nénharma Send a private message to Ereinion Nénharma Feb 7 2013, 5:11pm
                            I'm not sure how they could portray this. Kassandros Send a private message to Kassandros Feb 7 2013, 5:07pm
                                I wouldn't expect them to portray this scene. They can't. They COULD AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Feb 7 2013, 5:18pm
                                    I have no idea why someone would think she was his superior. Kassandros Send a private message to Kassandros Feb 7 2013, 9:21pm
                                        A LOT of people thought so. Problematically, the people who lacked the prior knowledge to know better. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Feb 7 2013, 9:54pm
                                            Galadriel is walking IdrilofGondolin Send a private message to IdrilofGondolin Feb 8 2013, 1:43am
                                                I was actually suggesting that the seating denoted an honouring of the Istari, not the Elves. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Feb 8 2013, 2:09am
                                                    I like your suggestion about the seating Súlimë Send a private message to Súlimë Feb 8 2013, 3:29am
                                                        I get what you are saying, and there is some truth in what you are saying, however her AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Feb 8 2013, 7:13am
                                                            The White Council scene Súlimë Send a private message to Súlimë Feb 8 2013, 8:15am
                                                                Elf Portrayal and Gandalf Personality Mahtion Send a private message to Mahtion Feb 8 2013, 2:24pm
                                                                    I think you mistake the meaning of the complaint.. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Feb 10 2013, 1:36am
                                                    Point well taken IdrilofGondolin Send a private message to IdrilofGondolin Feb 8 2013, 3:17pm
                                                        point 4 Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Feb 8 2013, 4:30pm
    Galadriel and gandalf Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Feb 6 2013, 11:39pm
        Only the "Why the Halfling" line. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Feb 6 2013, 11:56pm
            yes, true Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Feb 6 2013, 11:59pm
            Dol Goldur Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Feb 7 2013, 12:15am
                Well . . . I don't want to get into what it means for him to carry him from AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Feb 7 2013, 12:17am
                    Like echoing the staff breaking in Minias Tirith Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Feb 7 2013, 12:43am
                        Ach! God. I blot it from my mind. Thank God it was only in EE, NOT the theatrical. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Feb 7 2013, 1:08am
                            too far in (?) Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Feb 7 2013, 1:38am
                                If only it were clearly even equal! AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Feb 7 2013, 4:02am
                                    In the high fells ElendilTheShort Send a private message to ElendilTheShort Feb 7 2013, 9:29am
                        I hate that scene The White Wizard Send a private message to The White Wizard Feb 9 2013, 2:23pm
                            Theatrical need Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Feb 9 2013, 3:32pm
            Interpretation Elessar Send a private message to Elessar Feb 7 2013, 2:31am
    Legal issues Fredeghar Wayfarer Send a private message to Fredeghar Wayfarer Feb 7 2013, 10:20am
        The Appendices already say that they are sent from The Lords of The West. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Feb 7 2013, 4:10pm
        This makes me wonder... Ereinion Nénharma Send a private message to Ereinion Nénharma Feb 7 2013, 4:57pm
            Elrond knew. Cirdan and Glorfindel knew. Others of the Eldar may have guessed, but they did not definitively know until the end of The Third Age. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Feb 7 2013, 5:05pm
                Thank you... Ereinion Nénharma Send a private message to Ereinion Nénharma Feb 7 2013, 5:13pm
                    You are AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Feb 7 2013, 5:19pm
                        For love of a Wizard. Its threads like this Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Feb 7 2013, 5:59pm
                            *blushes mightily* AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Feb 7 2013, 8:49pm
    Being mad on Istari-justice, I agree with you, though I think it depends on interpretation Radagast-Aiwendil Send a private message to Radagast-Aiwendil Feb 7 2013, 12:53pm
        Yup MorgolKing Send a private message to MorgolKing Feb 7 2013, 1:40pm
    Then you'll love the Dol Guldur scenes stoutfiles Send a private message to stoutfiles Feb 7 2013, 2:44pm
        Gandalf became mightier later on Mahtion Send a private message to Mahtion Feb 7 2013, 3:40pm
            Whaaaaaa? AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Feb 7 2013, 4:19pm
    I don't think that Galadriel's depiction is that far off... Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Feb 7 2013, 3:53pm
        She invited them, and asked that Gandalf be the leader of The Council entire. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Feb 7 2013, 4:23pm
            Even then, she did not get her way... Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Feb 7 2013, 4:27pm
                It wasn't Saruman's insistence but Gandalf's refusal that settled the matter. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Feb 7 2013, 4:44pm
    I hope they will do no such thing dubulous Send a private message to dubulous Feb 7 2013, 5:54pm
        Humble in part by choice, Dubulous. Humple, not subserviant. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Feb 7 2013, 8:45pm
    It's a different canon now Rostron2 Send a private message to Rostron2 Feb 7 2013, 10:01pm
    The "Nine Reasons Why" article on home page Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Feb 9 2013, 11:25pm

 
 
 

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