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AinurOlorin
Valinor
Feb 6, 10:23pm
Views: 1180
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A continuing vexation over the seeming lack of reverance shown by Galadriel to Gandalf, despite her knowledge of what he is and her high esteem of him. I hope they will rectify this in the coming films.
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Can't Post
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I don't mean to gripe. I really enjoyed, even loved, some parts of the interaction between the two. Their obvious camraderie, and Galadriel's affectionate concern for the Wizard were especially pleasing to me. Yet, through it all she was portrayed too much as somehow superior to him, which was deeply problematic. She seemed at all points the director and advisor, but never the advised. The dynamic hearkened too much to her interactions with Frodo and Aragorn. . . that dynamic was pitch perfect in relation to both of them, but completely wrong in interaction with one of The Ainur, The Holy Spirits who formed the world, even an Ainur in a limited incarnation. We know that Galadriel greatly valued and trusted in the wisdom of Gandalf, and we know that she had desired his leadership for THe Council. We also know that she knew what he truly was. There is, unfortunately and dissapointingly, no evidence of that in this film. Another poster noted that her husband was not sure whether or not Galadriel was one of the Wizards! And I can understand how he came to such a conclusion. If not for the fact that it is earlier mentioned that there are only Five Wizards, including Gandalf, Saruman and Radagast, with the two Blue Wizards off stage, I think any layperson might easily draw that same notion. She is portrayed almost as being the co-leader of The Council alongside Saruman.
I love Galadriel, and she was both wise and mighty, even among The Noldor, and I am glad to see her portrayed thus. But she was not without flaws of pride and early folly. And she had been a student of the Maiar Ainur, but she was NOT their tutor, neither Melian's nor Olorin's. The Istari were not even answerable to each other (aside from that being specifically stated, one recalls a certain Wizard sitting aside and blowing smokerings whilst Saruman spoke. . . then issuing a very precise number of rings, and holding up his hand to make them vanish before the other Wizard's eyes), certainly they were not answerable to any of The Eldar. The Valar and Eru were their directors and sole superiors, not Galadriel of Valinor, Doriath and Lothlorien. I am HAPPY to see Galadriel portayed as a mighty and great Power in Middle-Earth. But it is wrong for them to diminsih or make servile Gandalf in the process. The Wizards were sent to give counsel, advice, motivation and aid to ALL the people's of Middle-Earth, including the High Elves who remained, from the greatest to the least. All people, from the remaining Noldor to the Hobbits of The Shire, were Gandalf's concern, who had thought and pity even for the slaves of Sauron.
My hope is, in the following films, he will give as much counsel to The Lady of Lorien as he receives, recalling to mind the scene in Unfinished tales whereupon he tells her that, contrary to her fears, The Valar have not put Middle-Earth and those who dwell thereupon out of their thought. And hopefully she will be seen to show him more reverance as well, even if it is merely the same tilt of the head that he gives to her.
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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A continuing vexation over the seeming lack of reverance shown by Galadriel to Gandalf, despite her knowledge of what he is and her high esteem of him. I hope they will rectify this in the coming films.
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AinurOlorin
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Feb 6, 10:23pm
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They've gone to too much trouble...
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Ardamírë
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Feb 6, 11:14pm
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It is shameful. Him being a Great Wizard (and a Holy Spirit veiled in flesh) does not
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AinurOlorin
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Feb 6, 11:30pm
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Quite shameful indeed!
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Kassandros
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Feb 7, 4:05pm
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We should take both of those options under advisement, and
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AinurOlorin
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Feb 7, 4:24pm
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On a more serious note...
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Kassandros
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Feb 7, 4:40pm
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Actually, there is a very intimate encounter between them which Tolkien relays,
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AinurOlorin
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Feb 7, 4:49pm
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UT material
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Brethil
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Feb 7, 5:06pm
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I agree...
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Ereinion Nénharma
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Feb 7, 5:11pm
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I'm not sure how they could portray this.
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Kassandros
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Feb 7, 5:07pm
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I wouldn't expect them to portray this scene. They can't. They COULD
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AinurOlorin
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Feb 7, 5:18pm
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I have no idea why someone would think she was his superior.
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Kassandros
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Feb 7, 9:21pm
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A LOT of people thought so. Problematically, the people who lacked the prior knowledge to know better.
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AinurOlorin
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Feb 7, 9:54pm
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Galadriel is walking
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IdrilofGondolin
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Feb 8, 1:43am
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I was actually suggesting that the seating denoted an honouring of the Istari, not the Elves.
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AinurOlorin
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Feb 8, 2:09am
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I like your suggestion about the seating
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Súlimë
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Feb 8, 3:29am
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I get what you are saying, and there is some truth in what you are saying, however her
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AinurOlorin
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Feb 8, 7:13am
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The White Council scene
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Súlimë
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Feb 8, 8:15am
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Elf Portrayal and Gandalf Personality
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Mahtion
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Feb 8, 2:24pm
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I think you mistake the meaning of the complaint..
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AinurOlorin
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Feb 10, 1:36am
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Point well taken
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IdrilofGondolin
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Feb 8, 3:17pm
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point 4
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Brethil
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Feb 8, 4:30pm
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Galadriel and gandalf
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Brethil
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Feb 6, 11:39pm
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Only the "Why the Halfling" line.
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AinurOlorin
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Feb 6, 11:56pm
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yes, true
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Brethil
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Feb 6, 11:59pm
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Dol Goldur
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Brethil
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Feb 7, 12:15am
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Well . . . I don't want to get into what it means for him to carry him from
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AinurOlorin
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Feb 7, 12:17am
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Like echoing the staff breaking in Minias Tirith
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Brethil
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Feb 7, 12:43am
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Ach! God. I blot it from my mind. Thank God it was only in EE, NOT the theatrical.
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AinurOlorin
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Feb 7, 1:08am
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too far in (?)
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Brethil
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Feb 7, 1:38am
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If only it were clearly even equal!
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AinurOlorin
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Feb 7, 4:02am
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In the high fells
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ElendilTheShort
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Feb 7, 9:29am
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I hate that scene
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The White Wizard
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Feb 9, 2:23pm
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Theatrical need
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Brethil
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Feb 9, 3:32pm
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Interpretation
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Elessar
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Feb 7, 2:31am
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Legal issues
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Fredeghar Wayfarer
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Feb 7, 10:20am
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The Appendices already say that they are sent from The Lords of The West.
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AinurOlorin
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Feb 7, 4:10pm
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This makes me wonder...
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Ereinion Nénharma
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Feb 7, 4:57pm
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Elrond knew. Cirdan and Glorfindel knew. Others of the Eldar may have guessed, but they did not definitively know until the end of The Third Age.
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AinurOlorin
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Feb 7, 5:05pm
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Thank you...
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Ereinion Nénharma
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Feb 7, 5:13pm
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You are
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AinurOlorin
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Feb 7, 5:19pm
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For love of a Wizard. Its threads like this
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Brethil
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Feb 7, 5:59pm
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*blushes mightily*
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AinurOlorin
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Feb 7, 8:49pm
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Being mad on Istari-justice, I agree with you, though I think it depends on interpretation
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Radagast-Aiwendil
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Feb 7, 12:53pm
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Yup
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MorgolKing
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Feb 7, 1:40pm
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Then you'll love the Dol Guldur scenes
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stoutfiles
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Feb 7, 2:44pm
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Gandalf became mightier later on
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Mahtion
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Feb 7, 3:40pm
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Whaaaaaa?
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AinurOlorin
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Feb 7, 4:19pm
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I don't think that Galadriel's depiction is that far off...
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Otaku-sempai
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Feb 7, 3:53pm
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She invited them, and asked that Gandalf be the leader of The Council entire.
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AinurOlorin
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Feb 7, 4:23pm
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Even then, she did not get her way...
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Otaku-sempai
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Feb 7, 4:27pm
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It wasn't Saruman's insistence but Gandalf's refusal that settled the matter.
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AinurOlorin
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Feb 7, 4:44pm
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I hope they will do no such thing
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dubulous
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Feb 7, 5:54pm
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Humble in part by choice, Dubulous. Humple, not subserviant.
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AinurOlorin
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Feb 7, 8:45pm
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It's a different canon now
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Rostron2
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Feb 7, 10:01pm
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The "Nine Reasons Why" article on home page
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Brethil
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Feb 9, 11:25pm
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