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a.s.
Valinor
Dec 8 2007, 2:02pm
Post #26 of 29
(319 views)
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I think the Sil leaves an opening for Tom
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I agree that the Valar et al are just a myth (and a myth that Tolkien himself "made up", to boot). So is Tom. And they aren't necessarily connected with each other.
I also think, though, that the Sil and LOTR itself leave a wide opening for many things not envisioned by the Elves, and some seen by the Elves but not completely understood. And Tom is intended to stand in the place of all those "many things".
That's why Tolkien included him, I think.
a.s.
"an seileachan"
Forgiveness means giving up all hope of a better past.
~~~Landrum Bolling
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FarFromHome
Valinor
Dec 8 2007, 2:56pm
Post #27 of 29
(318 views)
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that you could just put Tom down in the category of "mystery", since he can't be explained in terms of the Elves' mythology of Middle-earth.
And although it's obviously the case that the legendarium isn't "true" since Tolkien invented it, what I'm trying to get at is that it can also be seen as story-internally mythological. That is, you don't have to read LotR or the Sil as if everything in them is "true" - the music of the Ainur may be no more literally true in Middle-earth than most Catholics (for example) would think the story of Adam and Eve is literally true. They are just two powerful ways of expressing the inexpressible.
With Tom, I see Tolkien deliberately introducing a character from a different, older mythology. It reminds me of the way early Christians in England managed to combine their new religion with an ongoing sense that the old gods of forests and mountains and rivers were still there (even if they gradually were reduced to the status of folk-tales and superstitions). One mythology doesn't necessarily replace another - the two can live side by side, and the last remnants of the old beliefs can linger for a very long time. I suspect that the power of Caradhras belongs to these old beliefs too, as well as the Old Forest itself.
I agree that Tom could be one of the "many things" not envisioned by the Elves. They are wise enough, I think, to know that there are other ways of seeing the world than through their own myths. Tom belongs to an older mythology that is dying out - the "pagan" myths of the countryside ("pagan" originally meaning "country-dwelling", as I think Owlyross pointed out - which would also account for Tom's brown, peasant hand).
...and the sails were drawn up, and the wind blew,
and slowly the ship slipped away down the long grey firth;
and the light of the glass of Galadriel that Frodo bore
glimmered and was lost.
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a.s.
Valinor
Dec 8 2007, 9:56pm
Post #28 of 29
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so...do the hobbits see Tom and spend time with him?
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I understand what you're saying (I think) about how internally, the characters (or, specifically, the Elves) understand the creation myth of their world.
But Tom...appears to be "there". In ME, in a specific place. And the hobbits seem to spend some time in his house. Don't they? I mean, internally, in the story, something happens to the hobbits between the Old Forest and the Barrow Downs.
If Tom is just a myth to the characters in LOTR, in the same way the Valar are a mythic explanation of the powers present in the world and in charge of fate (or whatever)...what happened to the hobbits when they got caught in the Old Forest?
a.s.
"an seileachan"
Forgiveness means giving up all hope of a better past.
~~~Landrum Bolling
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FarFromHome
Valinor
Dec 9 2007, 8:17am
Post #29 of 29
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the way I see it, the Old Forest is a bit of the ancient mythology that still exists, hidden away from the newer one that surrounds it, and when the hobbits cross that boundary, they find themselves inside a different mythology - inside a different "song", as Sam might say.
I guess I'm saying that all "realities" are created by human brains - our own need for pattern and meaning makes us create what we call reality out of all the things we see around us, and all cultures and societies make a slightly different "reality" for themselves. LotR is a story that creates such a "reality" - but it also gives us glimpses of other "realities" - other ways of seeing the world. The Shire is really a different "reality" from the epic world of the later story as well. Tolkien shows us how little, unregarded things in one culture might be remnants of very important elements of an older one, and how different cultures really are very much the same under the skin (I'm thinking of the way Sam's simple rites over the "dead" Frodo echo Aragorn's more formal ones over Boromir, for example). I like the little mention that Gandalf is going to visit Tom at the end of the story too - another moment of cultures sharing their wisdom, although at this point both Tom and Gandalf belong to the old order that is once again about to change.
Taking this view does involve standing "outside the story" a bit, and thinking about what "stories" really are. I think I got some of this idea from reading On Faerie Stories, and some from Frodo and Sam's discussion on the Stairs of Cirith Ungol, which for me is the key to the whole book. The hobbits in particular are very open to all the different "realities" that they experience, and through them we too witness many different ways of viewing the world - for as Tolkien says, this is all about our world, not some fantastical other world. It's simply our world, as imagined by other people.
...and the sails were drawn up, and the wind blew,
and slowly the ship slipped away down the long grey firth;
and the light of the glass of Galadriel that Frodo bore
glimmered and was lost.
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