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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Dain Ironfoot
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Oin's parasite
Rivendell


Feb 4 2013, 11:59pm

Post #1 of 33 (1201 views)
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Dain Ironfoot Can't Post

I am not sure if the fellow has landed himself his own thread yet (or one recently at least). So I would like to pose a few questions to you splendid folk,

1). Will Dain be exclusive to There and Back Again?

2). From what we know what are your predictions on how he will be portrayed?

3). What traits do you HOPE the writers and Billy bring to the character?

"I've got parasites as big as my arm!"


andwise
Rivendell


Feb 5 2013, 12:30am

Post #2 of 33 (618 views)
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not sure.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Whether he'll just be in TABA or may get a look in for DOS....I'm hoping billy conolly is going to do great things with this character as I've always been a big fan of the big Yin.it always seems to me though that he gets given parts where he is asked to bring some 'scottish whimsy' to whatever part it is and i think he's much more capable an actor than that.we'll see soon enough.

Arrow....black arrow,I have saved you to the last.you have never failed me and always I have recovered you.I had you from my father and he from old.if ever you came from the forges of the true king under the mountain,go now and speed well


Roheryn
Grey Havens

Feb 5 2013, 1:07am

Post #3 of 33 (662 views)
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Tricky, methinks. ***SPOILERS*** [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
3). What traits do you HOPE the writers and Billy bring to the character?



From what I've read, Dain's going to be as bad-a** a fighter as Dwalin. We're probably going to see him doing some pretty heroic things in battle, but...then Thorin dies (that's our own "NOOOOOOO!" moment) and Dain is crowned King. After having followed Thorin through three movies and countless adventures, having grown to love him (or, in some cases, fallen in love with him from his first moments on screen), then watching him succumb to the dragon-sickness and subsequently be redeemed, -- in short, after following him through this amazing character arc, we lose him. And Dain gets the ultimate reward for all Thorin's efforts. I think it's going to be pretty tricky to portray Dain as someone we, as the audience, can accept as the new king. How could he possibly have more charisma, or be a better or more inspirational leader, than Thorin? I think it's going to be hard to pull off. My natural inclination is going to be to yell at the screen after Dain's crowning, "BUT IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN THORIN!!!", and I really hope Dain can display some qualities that make us (or me, at least) feel less cheated -- especially since we're also being cheated out of seeing Fili or Kili crowned. Sigh. The ending of TABA is going to be hard to watch!


IdrilofGondolin
Rohan

Feb 5 2013, 1:20am

Post #4 of 33 (601 views)
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Do You Remember [In reply to] Can't Post

what Gandalf relates about Dain at the end ot ROTK (or it may be in the appendix. I can't remember). That Dain fights alongside Brand son of Bain son of Bard in a battle before the gates of Erebor and dies defending the body of King Brand? Perhaps PJ has figured out how to add this so we can see Dain at his heroic best at the end of TABA.


Roheryn
Grey Havens

Feb 5 2013, 2:28am

Post #5 of 33 (543 views)
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*scratches head* [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm all for seeing Dain at his heroic best, since he's got to show me something that makes me forgive him for not being Thorin, but I'm not sure we can see him dying before he becomes King...or do you mean after he's crowned, in some sort of flashforward?


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Feb 5 2013, 2:32am

Post #6 of 33 (537 views)
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Hmmm....yes but-- [In reply to] Can't Post

It would be cool to see the mature King Dain fighting along King Brand--what an epic scene that would be! But if they show that in TH then that would mean more death, and the audience (including myself) may not be able to take any more deaths, heroic or otherwise. I'm already stocking up on Kleenex and pocket-handkerchiefs in anticipation of TaBA. Crazy

'"Never laugh at live dragons, Bilbo you fool!" he said to himself, and it became a favourite saying of his later, and passed into a proverb.'


Kimtc
Rohan


Feb 5 2013, 3:07am

Post #7 of 33 (534 views)
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Billy Connolly's IMDB page lists both movies [In reply to] Can't Post

So I guess they're going to find a way to get him in both.


Súlimë
Rivendell


Feb 5 2013, 3:27am

Post #8 of 33 (525 views)
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I totally understand what you mean [In reply to] Can't Post

I hope we don't all go "Who the heck is Dain and why does he deserve this?" at the end. I think they will make it seem like a necessity to have a king (with everyone still grieving much and no celebration is made out of it). The crowning itself might be very brief, with Thorin's (and Fili's and Kili's) funeral getting more attention.

Dang.. that's going to be hard to watch... Makes LotR ending super-happy in comparison...


Kimtc
Rohan


Feb 5 2013, 4:10am

Post #9 of 33 (508 views)
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I think you're right [In reply to] Can't Post

They may not even show it at all, and just have Old Bilbo mention it in his wrap up. Or if they have Balin visit Bilbo after, Balin might mention something like "Dain has been a fine King." In the book I never really thought of his becoming king as sad (although I still was gob smacked by Fili/Kili), but here it would be. So they probably need to downplay it to avoid having Dain become unsympathetic.

So this will enter my list of movies that make me cry: Terms of Endearment, Love Story, Brian's Song, The Hobbit: TABA. Hmm, something doesn't fit. I need more with someone getting cut down in battle, not in a hospital.


In Reply To
I hope we don't all go "Who the heck is Dain and why does he deserve this?" at the end. I think they will make it seem like a necessity to have a king (with everyone still grieving much and no celebration is made out of it). The crowning itself might be very brief, with Thorin's (and Fili's and Kili's) funeral getting more attention.

Dang.. that's going to be hard to watch... Makes LotR ending super-happy in comparison...



Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Feb 5 2013, 4:28am

Post #10 of 33 (506 views)
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fool me once, shame on... [In reply to] Can't Post

shame on you.... Fool me ...you can't get fooled again


Wink

Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


GloryBox
Bree


Feb 5 2013, 5:57am

Post #11 of 33 (469 views)
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You're right. [In reply to] Can't Post

Spoiler.
Losing three we already know and love, while watching someone we've barely met step in. No matter how heroic he is and how valid the succession, it's going to be tough to watch.

...one morning long ago in the quiet of the world, when there was less noise and more green... The Hobbit


Gelir
Bree

Feb 5 2013, 7:34am

Post #12 of 33 (469 views)
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It won't be that bad (spoilers) [In reply to] Can't Post

Regarding Dain, that is. Losing Thorin, Fili, and Kili is going to be awful, and I don't think there's any way around that.

Unless they make Dain a bit of a jerk, I don't think the audience will begrudge him being king. Someone has to, and he is next in line. He and his dwarves come to the company's aid and are willing to fight an army of elves and men for them, which is no small thing. True that they didn't go on the quest and besides it would be so much better for Thorin to get to be king, but his death isn't Dain's fault. As long as Dain fights bravely, and I'm sure he will, I don't think the audience will have ill will towards him.


Gelir
Bree

Feb 5 2013, 7:38am

Post #13 of 33 (481 views)
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Response (spoilers) [In reply to] Can't Post

1. It seems that he won't based on other posts.

2. My predictions are only based on the books, but I think he'll be portrayed as a brave and capable fighter.

3. I hope he'll grieve for Thorin, Fili, and Kili.


julia0925
The Shire


Feb 5 2013, 3:52pm

Post #14 of 33 (382 views)
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I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm already inclined to dislike Dain, and to have him come in at the last minute to save the day and become king, that might be a bit much if not handled properly. I'll just have to keep an open mind, as much as possible. Yes, I've read the book, and in the book it didn't bother me, but that was before the movie and I got to know these dwarves that I now love and admire.

-----
Lotr: You know it's been a bad day when even the elf is smudged.
TH: when the going gets tough, the tough call the eagles.


Agrippah
Registered User

Feb 5 2013, 4:25pm

Post #15 of 33 (403 views)
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I don't think Dain will get so much screen time [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think Dain will have much screen-time at all, perhaps he will be treated like Eomer in LOTR. I do not know how they will tackle the coronation.

However, I think Thorin will kill Azog, Bolg will kill Thorin and Beorn will kill Bolg. Therefore, there won't be room for Dain to kill Azog and this make it harder to introduce him. Perhaps they let Dain kill Bolg instead of Beorn, but I don't think it will be likely.


Rostron2
Gondor


Feb 5 2013, 6:23pm

Post #16 of 33 (370 views)
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That take place in LOTR era [In reply to] Can't Post

It would happen about the same time that Aragorn leads everyone to the Black Gate. I'm not sure how they would do anything in flash-forward, that doesn't follow any kind of narrative sense.


IdrilofGondolin
Rohan

Feb 5 2013, 11:48pm

Post #17 of 33 (328 views)
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I Know [In reply to] Can't Post

I was thinking more of an epilogue where Gandalf would relate these events.


Brethil
Half-elven


Feb 6 2013, 12:25am

Post #18 of 33 (327 views)
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Dain's legacy [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm very curious to see how it will be handled without underming the essential and whopping tragedies we are all going to have to stomach.
Puts Dain in the unenviable position of being the Fortinabras of ME, but through no choice of his own. As others have said ROTK ending is going to seem easy after this one and that turns me to jelly. Perhaps borrowing the spirit of dying Hamlet by passing the election lights on as a deathbed speech...still going to sting no matter what. But they will have to legitimize it somehow, through Thorin's agreement, Dain's valor and probably both.

Can see brokenhearted Balin leaving for Moria in honor of the fallen King who he loved as a young prince....

ouch

...she took the point at once, but she also took the spoons.


Kimtc
Rohan


Feb 6 2013, 1:21am

Post #19 of 33 (326 views)
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Ouch is right. [SPOILERS] [In reply to] Can't Post

But I agree that they will have to handle some legitimacy via Thorin. So I see his deathbed speech being expanded beyond his reconciliation with Bilbo. He might say something about how he knew he was never really going to rule, that Dain is a valiant and able ruler who will be the KUTM that he never really could be, etc. etc.

I'm getting concerned that the sheer amount of time that TABA will give over to death scenes will be formidable. Particularly since I would imagine most of them will be in slow motion. Really slow. And I imagine that Kili and Fili won't go at the same time, so someone is going to have to see the other die first. Ugh.


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Feb 6 2013, 1:41am

Post #20 of 33 (301 views)
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IMDb is not reliable for this sort of thing... [In reply to] Can't Post

Many entries at IMDb are fan-submitted so you cannot rely on them for accuracy (especially for a film that has not yet been completed or released.

There is little reason to include Dain in DoS unless it is part of a flashback. He shouldn't enter the story proper until after Thorin and his followers discover that Smaug is dead and that Men and Elves are gathering with thoughts of the dragon's treasure.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Kimtc
Rohan


Feb 6 2013, 1:59am

Post #21 of 33 (290 views)
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Makes sense. Thanks for the heads up! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Many entries at IMDb are fan-submitted so you cannot rely on them for accuracy (especially for a film that has not yet been completed or released.

There is little reason to include Dain in DoS unless it is part of a flashback. He shouldn't enter the story proper until after Thorin and his followers discover that Smaug is dead and that Men and Elves are gathering with thoughts of the dragon's treasure.



Hanzkaz
Rohan

Feb 6 2013, 4:30am

Post #22 of 33 (290 views)
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I think they could show a version of - [In reply to] Can't Post

- the legendary Dain vs Azog scene during the Hobbit Trilogy. Considering what he would eventually become, it wouldn't hurt to show him having a few 'hero' moments. I tend to think of him as being a bit like Éomer in the LOTR Trilogy.

___________________________________________________


From the makers of 'The Lord of the Rings' comes the sequel to Peter Jackson's Hobbit Trilogy -
'The War in the North, Part I : The Sword in the Tomb'.



Bauglir100
Bree

Feb 6 2013, 5:54am

Post #23 of 33 (295 views)
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One thing that should be mentioned... [In reply to] Can't Post

Is that in the book, Thorin and Company don't actually join the battle until much later. Dain was leading the Dwarven army for most of the battle. That should give him enough reason to kill off Azog, as he did in the book. Maybe it will have Azog trying to enter Erebor to attack Thorin, but Dain charges up to intercept him, and they have their duel.

Think about it: Dain on his Boar vs. Azog on his white Warg. That's a spectacle if I ever heard of one.


Michelle Johnston
Rohan


Feb 6 2013, 12:58pm

Post #24 of 33 (263 views)
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Scottish Whimsy would that be the Last Samarai [In reply to] Can't Post

B C as a presence with the right script is very good at establishing himself quickly and gaining emotional commitment from the audience. A film I always enjoy is the Last Samarai and although his death occurs very early on when he dies you care. Equally by the time he arrives in Erebor we may be routing for him. We already know he has spurned Thorin on the quest. If he has a short but believeable dynamic story arc in TABA where he pursuades the Iron Hills to rise and fight it would be a clear and decisive entry into the patination of the movie without cluttering the story lines.

A point made on this thread by many is that non believing friends and family are finding the Hobbit much more enjoyable than LOTR because the story breaths better and is easier to engage with. I think Azog maybe there until the end and then Dain gets to do his stuff from the appendices. That would be a powerful ending to a three movie arc for Azog and establish Dain's heroic place in movie Dwarven history. If that is right how many other feud completions are we going to see. Beorn and Bolg who may interact earlier or do we lose Bolg in TDOS. The next 17 months are going to be fascinating.

I tried to save the shire , and it has been but not for me.


imin
Valinor


Feb 6 2013, 1:16pm

Post #25 of 33 (254 views)
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Many many people's main complaint with the film is it doesn't give any time for the audience to breath [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
the Hobbit much more enjoyable than LOTR because the story breaths better


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