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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Thorin's beard!
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Eowyn3
Rivendell

Feb 4 2013, 6:35pm

Post #1 of 39 (1302 views)
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Thorin's beard! Can't Post

There have been several people who have commented on the fact that Thorin should have a long beard. While watching AUJ yesterday again, I noticed that he does have a long beard at the beginning of the movie. During the Erabor scene you can notice that he has a beard the same length as his hair, only that it is braided and so it's hard to notice.
As somebody posted on another thread, it would make sense for Thorin to have a short beard now, since Dwarves tear their beards in time of grief. And it would make sense that his beard was not as long as Thror's or Thrain's during the Erabor scene, because he was still young.
Also, his hair still awesome!Smile


stoutfiles
Rohan


Feb 4 2013, 6:41pm

Post #2 of 39 (666 views)
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Thorin should be much older [In reply to] Can't Post

He's the oldest member in the party, but looks middle aged. Basically they gave him as much age and much beard as they could without losing the sexy appeal. Book accuracy loses to getting more people in the theaters.


arithmancer
Grey Havens

Feb 4 2013, 6:43pm

Post #3 of 39 (668 views)
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Really? [In reply to] Can't Post

How did I miss that? Laugh It's not as though I were looking elsewhere once Thorin showed up on screen, in my later viewings...

I suppose this just illustrates the trivial nature (to me, naturally!) of the discussion of who looks like a "real Dwarf" and who does not. Shown a Thorin who does and does not (by this, to me, arbitrary standard) I did not notice a difference.

Does he have the short beard, or still this longer one, at Azanulbizar, did you notice?


Eowyn3
Rivendell

Feb 4 2013, 6:52pm

Post #4 of 39 (642 views)
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Yesterday was my 7th viewing [In reply to] Can't Post

And I finally noticed the beard at the Erabor scene. I did not notice at the battle of Azanulbizar. I'll have to watch it again, but my guess is that he had it short already. His hair looked as awesome as ever!


(This post was edited by Eowyn3 on Feb 4 2013, 6:58pm)


Angharad73
Rohan

Feb 4 2013, 7:06pm

Post #5 of 39 (636 views)
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There's a clip on the beard as well. [In reply to] Can't Post

Isn't there? It's hard to see though how long the beard really is - I didn't even notice it until I specifically looked for it.

At the Battle of Azanulbizar the beard was short already, I'm pretty sure. I think I read somewhere that the change in beard came about because RA decided to grow his own instead of always wearing a fake one?


arithmancer
Grey Havens

Feb 4 2013, 7:10pm

Post #6 of 39 (579 views)
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THAT's my problem, I'm only up to 5. :-) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


julia0925
The Shire


Feb 4 2013, 7:34pm

Post #7 of 39 (573 views)
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Yeah, I saw that. [In reply to] Can't Post

I've heard or read that RA decided Thorin would keep his beard short in respect to those who lost their lives in Erebor. Also, his father and grandfather had singed beards when they left the mountain.

It makes sense to me--other dwarf cultures I've read about shave their beards in grief when someone they loves dies, so Thorin having a short beard never worried me.

-----
Lotr: You know it's been a bad day when even the elf is smudged.
TH: when the going gets tough, the tough call the eagles.


Angharad73
Rohan

Feb 4 2013, 7:43pm

Post #8 of 39 (555 views)
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Yeah, I never worried about the beard length either... [In reply to] Can't Post

But then again, I'm not a fan of over-long beards. The plaited one with the clip would have been ok, still, but the way it turned out is fine with me, too. After all, it's not the beard length that counts - it's how well you wear it Sly


Kimtc
Rohan


Feb 4 2013, 8:05pm

Post #9 of 39 (558 views)
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I think the problem is we just aren't looking closely enough [In reply to] Can't Post

Which is weird, given how much of these boards are given up to discussion of Thorin and his general sex appeal. I think some of us don't get past the eyes. But seriously, the last time I went I planned on looking for his beard in the first scene, and indeed it was longer. Then I got hung up on the damned eyes, and didn't bother to notice his beard after. Sad, sad, sad.


Baggins Babe
Registered User

Feb 4 2013, 9:50pm

Post #10 of 39 (523 views)
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There's an answer for this....... [In reply to] Can't Post

...in Brian Sibley's Movie Guide. Richard Armitage says that the book mentions Thror and Thrain escaping Erebor with singed beards, and he decided that perhaps Thorin had cut his beard out of respect for his father and grandfather and the indignity they had suffered.

So much fascinating detail in that book.

"It was said to me by Elrond Halfelven that I should find friendship upon the way, secret and unlooked for. To have found it turns evil to great good."

***************************************
I used to have a handle on life - but it fell off.


Roheryn
Grey Havens

Feb 5 2013, 2:42am

Post #11 of 39 (406 views)
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I have trouble following through with plans too... [In reply to] Can't Post

For my last, oh, 9 viewings or so, I've gone in *every single time* determined to pay attention to whatever music is playing right as Bilbo opens the door to find Thorin on the doorstep, and for the next 30 seconds or so. I'm pretty sure it must match the first 30 seconds of "Axe or Sword" on the soundtrack, but you know what? I still have absolutely no idea if it does! I get completely sidetracked as soon as he turns his head (before he even says "Gandalf!"), and clearly my thoughts are very firmly on something else besides the music. I've never yet remembered to think about the music again until they're all sitting down together at the table.


Eowyn3
Rivendell

Feb 5 2013, 2:54am

Post #12 of 39 (391 views)
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So true! [In reply to] Can't Post

I also have plans on matching the music, paying attention to all kinds of details, etc. And then other things distract me. Thorin's hair, beard, eyes. I'll just have to keep watching this movie more times.Wink


Kimtc
Rohan


Feb 5 2013, 3:01am

Post #13 of 39 (391 views)
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Perhaps the DVD could have a special function. [In reply to] Can't Post

When we want to try to concentrate on the music, other actors, etc., we can turn on the "Thorin screen" and it will cover up his face with a smiley or something. Of course, we can turn it off immediately when necessary. ;)


In Reply To
I also have plans on matching the music, paying attention to all kinds of details, etc. And then other things distract me. Thorin's hair, beard, eyes. I'll just have to keep watching this movie more times.Wink



Eowyn3
Rivendell

Feb 5 2013, 3:03am

Post #14 of 39 (379 views)
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That may work ! [In reply to] Can't Post

I can't think of anything else.Tongue


Thorins_apprentice
Rohan


Feb 5 2013, 4:13am

Post #15 of 39 (393 views)
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What about KIli.?? [In reply to] Can't Post

What was his reason, for having almost no facial hair at all.Dwarves take pride in their beards and this is an issue like it or not.Unsure
Truth be told Kili should have a longer beard.Even when a Dwarf is young, they sport impressive Beards plaited and all.They could have at least plaited ,his hair or something Dwarven but they decided to go with a scruffy Elven look.I honestly think it's funny when people call Kili "the hottest Dwarf" because he quite obviously is no Dwarf but a midget Elf.Watching the movie i thought it was pathetic and odd that he is the ONLY guy without any Dwarven makeup whatsoever.He just looks like a Human.It really distracted me because i know it's a company of Dwarves but my mind dosen't register to Kili.I keep thinking he doesn't belong in the group.

We are more connected than ever before, more able to spread our ideas and beliefs, our anger and fears. As we exercise the right to advocate our views, and as we animate our supporters, we must all assume responsibility for our words and actions before they enter a vast echo chamber and reach those both serious and delirious, connected and unhinged.



(This post was edited by Thorins_apprentice on Feb 5 2013, 4:19am)


Súlimë
Rivendell


Feb 5 2013, 4:24am

Post #16 of 39 (362 views)
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That would be hilarious! [In reply to] Can't Post

I have a hard time NOT looking at Thorin too. Tongue


Kirly
Lorien


Feb 5 2013, 5:30am

Post #17 of 39 (369 views)
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yep, Thorin has me the moment he raises his eyebrows in that scene! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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GloryBox
Bree


Feb 5 2013, 6:29am

Post #18 of 39 (356 views)
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Great idea! Activate Thorin Cloaking Device... [In reply to] Can't Post

and then maybe I can take in the rest of the scene.

...one morning long ago in the quiet of the world, when there was less noise and more green... The Hobbit


jimmyfenn
Rohan


Feb 5 2013, 6:49am

Post #19 of 39 (340 views)
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hmm [In reply to] Can't Post

why not let RA jus rewrite the whole book! thorin should have a long beard. thats it.

"You Tolkien to me?!" - Hobbit de Niro


Old Toby
Gondor


Feb 5 2013, 8:46am

Post #20 of 39 (311 views)
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You mean there's music when Thorin shows up at the door? [In reply to] Can't Post

I think I must go deaf from the moment the door opens till he says, "Gandalf!" And I don't notice anything else for the next few minutes. (Except I always notice how he bumps his head going through to the next room!) Tongue

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)


Roheryn
Grey Havens

Feb 5 2013, 8:53am

Post #21 of 39 (323 views)
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Well now, see, therein lies the problem... [In reply to] Can't Post

I only think there must be because it's in the soundtrack, but for the life of me I have absolutely no recollection of any music from our first glimpse of Thorin until they're all sitting down at the table (at which point I finally remember to think again). Thorin's entrance is the biggest IFTSMMOP* scene of the whole movie for me.

*I Forgot To Swallow My Mouthful Of Popcorn


Macfeast
Rohan


Feb 5 2013, 11:09am

Post #22 of 39 (302 views)
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It may make sense. [In reply to] Can't Post

Doesn't change the fact that I would have thought it very interesting seeing a character of such importance in a much more unconventional design than what one usually see in film. Even if the change makes sense, it still disappoints me, because I wanted to see it unchanged.


(This post was edited by Macfeast on Feb 5 2013, 11:18am)


Eowyn3
Rivendell

Feb 5 2013, 11:32am

Post #23 of 39 (293 views)
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The only problem with the Thorin device, [In reply to] Can't Post

Is that if it gets stuck, it could cause a major panic attack on female viewers!


julia0925
The Shire


Feb 5 2013, 4:04pm

Post #24 of 39 (247 views)
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Ah the music! [In reply to] Can't Post

I go into each viewing determined to pay more attention to what music is playing when, but usually get caught up myself. I have noticed, though, that there are some discrepancies. The music that's playing when Thorin strides down the tree to face Azog is not on the soundtrack. There's also a theme during "Out of the Frying-Pan" that I can't seem to locate in the movie itself. I thought it was when Dwalin, Fili, and Kili come to Bilbo and Thorin's rescue but it isn't, that's the Dwarves Theme. Hmm. Well, I'll have to wait for the DVD now, it's out of my area. 7 times is pretty respectable, though.

-----
Lotr: You know it's been a bad day when even the elf is smudged.
TH: when the going gets tough, the tough call the eagles.


Roheryn
Grey Havens

Feb 5 2013, 10:20pm

Post #25 of 39 (213 views)
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To be perfectly fair, there *is* no change... [In reply to] Can't Post

at least as far as I can find right now without re-reading the entire book. Dwarvish beards may be described elsewhere by Tolkien, but not in The Hobbit (again, as far as I have found with a bit of skimming just now).

In the book: Dwalin has a blue beard tucked into a golden belt (thus, presumably, fairly long).

Balin has a white beard.

Fili and Kili have yellow beards.

I see no mention of anyone else's beard, no further mentions of color, and no mentions whatsoever of beard length (other than that Dwalin's is long enough to tuck into a belt). So Dwarf beards in the movie could be any length whatsoever (except, perhaps, Dwalin's) and it would not be a change from the book.

Now, in our heads, we may all have a vision of the archetypical Dwarf as having a long beard -- but this vision does not come from this text. I'll stand corrected if someone can point out a relevant passage to me, of course!

Thus, I think it's fairly pointless to argue about whether or not PJ did well or poorly with regards to beard lengths being the same or different from how they are in the book. PJ had pretty much a blank slate to work with, and I think his choices have been reasonably well explained. You are, of course, free to disagree with him -- but I suggest that disagreeing with him on the grounds that he should have stuck more closely to the book is a bit misguided!


(This post was edited by Roheryn on Feb 5 2013, 10:29pm)

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