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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
In praise of Howard Shore.
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andwise
Rivendell


Feb 4 2013, 5:18pm

Post #1 of 29 (825 views)
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In praise of Howard Shore. Can't Post

I have at last got round to buying a copy of the hobbit soundtrack and am enjoying it a lot.my point is that on first view of the movie I did think that one or two 'old' themes seemed to re-ocur too often,namely the shire theme and the elves themes....BUT on repeated viewings and listening to the CD it is not so.there have been plenty posts on here complaining about the score not being as good as LOTR but I have to defend Howard shore now.the most repeated theme is the dwarves/erebor/misty mountains theme which is quite right as that is the premise of the film.the dwarves themes are utterly fantastic and easily match anything in rings.the shire theme HAS to be there as does the rivendell theme because these are pieces of music not just wrote for the rings movies but to BE a part of the middle earth landscape and history and we are going to some of the same places.the one thing thatpuzzled me first time round and has been commented on by others was the inclusion of the ringwraiths theme at the end for azog facing thorin,seemed strange,but could it be that because azog is a gundabad orc which would have been under the rule of angmar at one time,then this theme represents that connection..?!? Anyway,whether that's right or wrong is not important.the thing is Howard shore has yet again created a masterpiece that sends shivers down the spine and brings a smile to the face just when it should do.awsome.!! Oh yes and does anyone else think that the music used for the eagles rescue echoes very slightly the lighting of the beacons from ROTK?? Neil Finns 'song of the lonely mountain' is also excellent.some didn't like it but I think its spot on,a bit folky,a bit different to what enya did for FOTR and very clever use of some of the lyrics from misty mountains and imagary from the end of the film.not what we expected at all,but surely that's a good thing!?all in all fantastic music once again and a pleasure to listen to.what do you think? Smile

Arrow....black arrow,I have saved you to the last.you have never failed me and always I have recovered you.I had you from my father and he from old.if ever you came from the forges of the true king under the mountain,go now and speed well

(This post was edited by andwise on Feb 4 2013, 5:22pm)


stoutfiles
Rohan


Feb 4 2013, 5:30pm

Post #2 of 29 (457 views)
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I think extended the films to 3 hurt him [In reply to] Can't Post

It seemed like songs were reused over and over because he composed for 2 films only. I have no factual evidence to support this, only that it feels that way.

There's also a fine line between connecting your music to LOTR and straight up copying it, slightly tweaking it, and calling it a new song. I feel some people think he crossed that line.

All in all, the music was great. I don't think it is better than LOTR's music so far, but there are two movies to go. Save the best for last I hope.


Angharad73
Rohan

Feb 4 2013, 5:30pm

Post #3 of 29 (413 views)
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I agree with you [In reply to] Can't Post

I love the music for the Hobbit. The fact that certain themes were re-used, in my opinion, serves to tie AUJ to the LOTR movies. Certain melodies just embody certain parts of Middle-Earth to me, so the music simply takes me there.

Ok, maybe I wasn't too sure about the use of the Ringwraiths theme for the Azog scene at the end, but upon closer inspection it somehow fits. No idea why this theme was picked for this particular scene, but it's great music and somehow it sounds appropriate.

Neil Finn's song, I thought a little strange at first, to be honest. Well, it surprised me the first time I heard it, but when I listened to it again (and again and again), it started to grow on me. And it is actually a fvourite of mine now...


Eowyn3
Rivendell

Feb 4 2013, 5:32pm

Post #4 of 29 (409 views)
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I agree! [In reply to] Can't Post

I purchased the sound track on the first day that it was available and I listen to it all the time. In fact, I haven't listened to the LOTR sound track since, which is unusual. I guess I have to remedy that.
I also love the Misty Mountains/Erabor/ Dwarves theme and you are right, it does reoccur often. However, I'm also puzzled on the ringwraiths theme, specially because it's nowhere on the CD.


Lindele
Gondor


Feb 4 2013, 6:19pm

Post #5 of 29 (389 views)
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It seems [In reply to] Can't Post

that you don't understand how film scoring works. I guarantee you that the split into three films did not affect Shore's score negatively. A film is scored late in the game, not years before it is complete.


Magpie
Immortal


Feb 4 2013, 6:29pm

Post #6 of 29 (395 views)
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I would add that anyone who thinks Shore.... [In reply to] Can't Post

straight up copied LOTR music, slightly tweaked it, and called it a new song...

is pushing that description way too much. It makes it sound like someone is trying to pass old stuff off as new and whether one thinks that the amount of LOTR that was used should have been, or the type of LOTR music that was used was appropriate or not, I don't think one can say that Shore was trying to 'pass old stuff off as new' or anything.

I wish people would just own what they like or don't like... approve or disapprove of... without having to attribute ill intentions or negative attributes to people.


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
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Owain
Tol Eressea


Feb 4 2013, 6:32pm

Post #7 of 29 (347 views)
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Mods way up!// [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile

Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."


arithmancer
Grey Havens

Feb 4 2013, 6:36pm

Post #8 of 29 (369 views)
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Where the split is (minor book spoilers) [In reply to] Can't Post

One effect the three movie split certainly could have had on the audience perception of the music is that the decision to move from 2 movies to three moved the end of Movie 1 all the way back from (or so I recall reading) the aftermath of the barrel scene, to the Carrock. Thus, a lot of new locations and characters the Company would have visited in Movie 1 before the split (Beorn and his home, Mirkwood forest where the spiders live, Thranduil's domain and his people) for which new music may have been written, were moved to Movie 2. And thus Movie 1 spent a lot more time in familiar locations and people/elements for which it was appropriate for Shore to use familiar music (the Shire, Trollshaws, Rivendell and its Elves, the Ring).


stoutfiles
Rohan


Feb 4 2013, 6:39pm

Post #9 of 29 (357 views)
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I understand how it works for a normal film [In reply to] Can't Post

This film had numerous shakeups at the last minute; it was late July when three films were announced, so it's possible he was at least rushed or subpar music that would have been relegated to the EE was in the theater. I'm just trying to help Shore out here for a mostly disappointing score when compared to LOTR. He borrowed too much from his old soundtrack and repeated motifs so often it was quite noticeable.


Lindele
Gondor


Feb 4 2013, 6:50pm

Post #10 of 29 (339 views)
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I don't think [In reply to] Can't Post

Shore needs your help. I guess I can see how some might think that the same themes are used too much, but I don't see it that way. The score for AUJ was in no way a dissapointment to me.


Lindele
Gondor


Feb 4 2013, 6:51pm

Post #11 of 29 (338 views)
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Interesting [In reply to] Can't Post

This is an interesting point.


stoutfiles
Rohan


Feb 4 2013, 7:06pm

Post #12 of 29 (330 views)
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To each his own [In reply to] Can't Post

His work on LOTR has two nominations and two wins by the Academy for Best Original Score.
So far his work on The Hobbit has zero nominations.

Time will tell on how history remembers this soundtrack. I hope the better, original music is still coming. I say this as a huge Shore fan; I just didn't find this soundtrack as good, and it's mainly because I've heard most of it before. To each his own.


Elessar
Valinor


Feb 4 2013, 8:08pm

Post #13 of 29 (311 views)
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OST [In reply to] Can't Post

Is fantastic and IMO as good as The Lord of the Rings OST. I've lost count how many times I've played it since December and for me it hits me in the same way a lot of the OST for The Lord of the Rings did. People bagging on Shore make me sad.



Lindele
Gondor


Feb 4 2013, 8:15pm

Post #14 of 29 (306 views)
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To each his own indeed [In reply to] Can't Post

though i really don't put much stock into what the Academy votes for. Their opinions change from year to year and their decisions are obviously based more on politics than choosing the actual best in film. This may have been a relatively weak year in film scores, but it doesn't take much to see that AUJ was leagues above the rest.


GloryBox
Bree


Feb 4 2013, 8:59pm

Post #15 of 29 (277 views)
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So right! [In reply to] Can't Post

It is "...a masterpiece that sends shivers down the spine and brings a smile to the face...". The more I play it, the more I love it -- and look forward to the next two soundtracks. Neil Finn's "Song of the Lonely Mountain" has become a special favorite, both for the creative instruments (more anvils!) and the foreboding lyrics. "We'll ride the gathering storm....". Indeed we will.

...one morning long ago in the quiet of the world, when there was less noise and more green... The Hobbit


andwise
Rivendell


Feb 4 2013, 10:04pm

Post #16 of 29 (258 views)
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movie split. [In reply to] Can't Post

A good point.this obviously would have had an effect as to moving stuff to film 2.....so,with that in mind we should hear quite a lot of new stuff because now the path of the company veers away from the path frodo took in FOTR which is also why we heard familiar themes in AUJ...why can't some understand this?you can't just make up a new theme for a place or person just because its a new film,as I said before Howard shore has written this music to be PART of the very bones of middle earth,not to merely dazzle for Oscar night.....nice to read everyone's thoughts though Smile

Arrow....black arrow,I have saved you to the last.you have never failed me and always I have recovered you.I had you from my father and he from old.if ever you came from the forges of the true king under the mountain,go now and speed well


andwise
Rivendell


Feb 4 2013, 10:30pm

Post #17 of 29 (263 views)
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ringwraiths theme.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Hmmm,I've thought this too.its definitely not on the CD....there is something very similar but its not that,wonder if it was a last minute change for the movie..?

Arrow....black arrow,I have saved you to the last.you have never failed me and always I have recovered you.I had you from my father and he from old.if ever you came from the forges of the true king under the mountain,go now and speed well


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Feb 4 2013, 11:34pm

Post #18 of 29 (245 views)
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Can anyone Name That Tune...er, theme for me? [In reply to] Can't Post

it is a sinister little bit, I hear it at the very end of "Radagast the Brown" extended version. In the movie,it should be when Radagast sees the Necromancer--but I didn't hear it in the movie!

It's also in FoTR, in the scene after Gandalf tells Frodo "keep it secret, keep it safe" and leaves; then the scene goes to Barad-dur and Gollum being tortured and this theme is played. It sounds like a twisted higher-pitched version of the "History of the Ring" theme, but I never knew if it had a name.

Shore rocks! Sly

'"Never laugh at live dragons, Bilbo you fool!" he said to himself, and it became a favourite saying of his later, and passed into a proverb.'


Silmaril
Lorien


Feb 5 2013, 7:34am

Post #19 of 29 (191 views)
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people should listen carefully and judge afterwards! [In reply to] Can't Post

it is fantastic, there's no copy & paste, the few connections to LotR are needed. what else do you want to hear when you see the shire? or rivendell? variations of the old themes! and the new stuff is very powerful and dark, even radagast's theme. i think people should listen carefully and judge afterwards. looking forward to the other scores, i'm sure they will be amazing too!!!


(This post was edited by Silmaril on Feb 5 2013, 7:37am)


Lonely Mountain
The Shire

Feb 5 2013, 9:07am

Post #20 of 29 (211 views)
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Theme [In reply to] Can't Post

Do you mean the "The Evil of the Ring (Mordor/Sauron)" theme? I think the music used in the scene where Radagast sees the Necromancer is "The Hill of Sorcery". The Mordor theme appears at about 3:10 but was not used in the movie scene.

The Mordor theme also appears in "The White Council (Extended Version)" at about 8:06 and was used in the White Council scene.


Foromir
Rivendell


Feb 5 2013, 9:52am

Post #21 of 29 (172 views)
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I agree and disagree with you! [In reply to] Can't Post

100% agreed if we are talking about the quality of the music as heard on the OST. There is the same level of musical invention, beauty and craft to be found as in the LotR music. The bonus tracks from the special edition are some of the most gorgeous tracks to be heard from Shore's Middle Earth altogether.

But, sadly, the same cannot be said about the music as heard in the movie. IMO there were some poor choices of editing and here we definitely hear much more of the old material from LotR, only slightly varied, sometimes even at the expense of the fresher new material that was cut from the OST.


Rostron2
Gondor


Feb 5 2013, 6:17pm

Post #22 of 29 (134 views)
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I thought it was a good score [In reply to] Can't Post

I noticed it where I needed to notice it, and it was subtle where it needed to be subtle. It was nice to hear some of the older themes and make it sound familiar.


Elessar
Valinor


Feb 5 2013, 6:23pm

Post #23 of 29 (126 views)
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Thats ok [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree with your first part but I obviously disagree with the second. The music in the movie itself was fantastic and very much feels new, some old, and creates a great blend IMO. For me it was a great time listenting to it in the movie and on my iphone.



Foromir
Rivendell


Feb 5 2013, 7:21pm

Post #24 of 29 (117 views)
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Well, that's ok too ;-) [In reply to] Can't Post

I should have made myself clearer. The music in the film wasn't bad at all of course, often wonderful in fact. I just think that it could have been even better when listening to that awesome soundtrack. So much great stuff that they didn't use and instead opted for more obvious reuse of known music without too much variation. It is this that puzzles and, well, disappoints me.


Elessar
Valinor


Feb 5 2013, 7:29pm

Post #25 of 29 (129 views)
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virtual high five [In reply to] Can't Post

They could have maybe mixed a little more in but I think there is a lot of it in the film. I'm curious to see when the EE comes out how much more gets mixed into it and I'm expecting it to be a decent chunk. I also expect films 2 and 3 to be filled with more new stuff or balanced better as a whole.


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