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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Bloatcutting
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Mixel
The Shire

Jan 29 2013, 12:04am

Post #1 of 52 (1474 views)
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Bloatcutting Can't Post

Do you think that PJ should make a 2-movie book edition in addition to the extended edition? If he wanted to, would he get the rights to do it? It would be an edition that many people would like more, so that overall more people would like The Hobbit movie franchise.


jtarkey
Rohan


Jan 29 2013, 1:26am

Post #2 of 52 (708 views)
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I'm confused, but... [In reply to] Can't Post

If you're asking if PJ should make a 2 film cut of The Hobbit, I would say...why not?

It's super unlikely. I think everything they shot after the 3 film decision probably only works in a 3 film story. I would certainly still love to see a 2 film version, so here's one supporter of the idea!

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"


droidsocket
Rivendell

Jan 29 2013, 1:26am

Post #3 of 52 (688 views)
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Absolutely not.. [In reply to] Can't Post

Pj made the movie he wanted to make. Enough said!


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jan 29 2013, 1:48am

Post #4 of 52 (688 views)
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Bloat? [In reply to] Can't Post

Perhaps we should be happy with what we were given. It is rather presumptuous to assume that more people would like your idea of how the Hobbit should be edited than Peter's.

I would rather see The Hobbit remade by another director than see this one chopped up and reassembled.
I really like what Peter has done and it will be great to see the rest of the story. I do not see the movie as bloated.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Brethil
Half-elven


Jan 29 2013, 1:58am

Post #5 of 52 (639 views)
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..... [In reply to] Can't Post

seconded Kangi Ska

...she took the point at once, but she also took the spoons.

(This post was edited by Brethil on Jan 29 2013, 1:59am)


bborchar
Rohan


Jan 29 2013, 2:09am

Post #6 of 52 (622 views)
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Yup... [In reply to] Can't Post

Like it or not, this version was the vision of Peter Jackson, and he's made it that way. It wouldn't work with someone else's vision for it. The reason why I wouldn't think he's cut it up in a million years is that, if he were going to do that, he would have done it for the theatrical release. He has the ability to do what he wants to without the studio interfering, and that's what he's done, whether people agree with him or not.


arithmancer
Grey Havens

Jan 29 2013, 2:17am

Post #7 of 52 (633 views)
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But think what catchy names the DVD films could have! [In reply to] Can't Post

The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey Desolation

and

The Hobbit: of Smaug There and Back Again!

Actually, might suit the material thus cut quite well...

Laugh


Arandiel
Grey Havens

Jan 29 2013, 4:38am

Post #8 of 52 (531 views)
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I'll fourth that// [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Walk to Rivendell: There and Back Again Challenge - traveling through Middle Earth with thirteen rowdy Dwarves, one grumpy Wizard, and a beleaguered Hobbit

Join us, Thursdays on Main!


Angharad73
Rohan

Jan 29 2013, 7:32am

Post #9 of 52 (515 views)
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Totally agree! [In reply to] Can't Post

We have only seen one movie so far, so we don't even know for sure what the other two are going to be like and what exactly will be included in them. And, to be honest, I do not think that the first movie was bloated or included things that could have been cut out. In fact, I cannot think of any scene that I would want to miss.


Roheryn
Grey Havens

Jan 29 2013, 7:50am

Post #10 of 52 (542 views)
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Sure, why not? [In reply to] Can't Post

While he's at it, he can make a 1-movie version too, for those who really can't be bothered sitting through three whole movies; and he could go ahead and make a 4-movie version, for those who can't get enough. And he should do every version two ways, both following the book exactly and then adding his own vision to it too. That'll give us eight versions; surely everyone will be pleased by at least one. And by the time he's done with all that, he'll be so sick of Middle-earth that he'll just throw up on his arms and give it all up for good.


Starling
Half-elven


Jan 29 2013, 9:07am

Post #11 of 52 (504 views)
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You missed one [In reply to] Can't Post

I want the one that goes backwards, called 'Back and There Again'.


dormouse
Half-elven


Jan 29 2013, 9:23am

Post #12 of 52 (494 views)
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No [In reply to] Can't Post

It isn't bloated. He made it the way he meant it to be.


jtarkey
Rohan


Jan 29 2013, 10:32am

Post #13 of 52 (485 views)
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Just because he made it the way he wanted... [In reply to] Can't Post

Doesn't mean it's not bloated. I don't really think it's "bloated" per say, but I do think there are some ridiculous and unnecessary things in the film.

We all have what I like to call "Tolkien Goggles" on. We love Middle Earth, and everything Tolkien, which immediately makes us biased to the way the books are translated to screen. Cinema is a different animal than books. A film based on a book could include every piece of dialogue, description, and story. That doesn't mean it will be a good film. I'm trying to look at this movie without my "Tolkien Goggles" on. And when I look at it that way, it has apparent flaws in the world of film making. PJ shouldn't be immediately excused just because he made it the way he wanted to. George Lucas made the star wars prequels the way he wanted. Sure, it's all in opinion. But I can say, with 100% certainty, that those films are not regarded as well as any film in the original trilogy.

I'm not saying he should make some kind of fan edit of the film (which my previous post made it seem). But if by the .0000001% chance he does...why not? It would be interesting to see for sure.

Did I mention I still love AUJ? I love it with my Tolkien Goggles on. I think it's "just good" with my proverbial 3D glasses on.

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"

(This post was edited by jtarkey on Jan 29 2013, 10:40am)


dormouse
Half-elven


Jan 29 2013, 11:20am

Post #14 of 52 (463 views)
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I don't agree that is bloated... [In reply to] Can't Post

And if you don't either, why..........

The point is, Peter Jackson is a successful film director. I'm not. For me, or you, or anyone here to make pronouncements about how we think the film ought to be re-edited, as if it would be a huge improvement, to use Kangi's word, presumptuous. Also rather arrogant.

Peter Jackson made the film the way he wanted to make it. He made the choices that seemed best to him. That's what film-makers do. Once all three films have been released we will know a whole lot more about his thinking than we do now, and whether any of us likes the end result or not, that will be that. The Hobbit complete. The idea of him scurrying around afterwards trying to remake the films in a way he doesn't have faith in, just to satisfy a vocal group of fans who think they could do it better than he can, is absurd. That's why not. Anyone who steps onto the public stage with a piece of work, be it film or book or work of art, has to have confidence in what they do. Yes, they listen to what the potential audience might be saying and thinking but that's part of the preparation. The work itself has to come from them.

I love the idea of your 'Tolkien Goggles'. Me, I don't wear them. I've loved the books so long that they're embedded in the way I think, so not removeable. But doesn't it go without saying that someone who doesn't have any particular interest in Tolkien's books would like the film less than someone who does? I don't think that makes it a bad film - just makes them the wrong audience. Me, I have zero interest in Batman. Saw the last but one film and was bored stiff by it. But those who do like it say it's a good film so I take their word for it - there's no film on earth that will please everyone.


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Jan 29 2013, 2:32pm

Post #15 of 52 (442 views)
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Personally [In reply to] Can't Post

I think they could just do a edit of the film that strictly follows the book and cuts out all the extra almost completely made up stuff that was only loosely based on what Tolkien wrote. Jackson does middle earth brilliantly when he sticks to the blueprint Tolkien gave him but IMO falls drastically short of that greatness when its the made up content that He, Walsh and Boyens come up with. Many of their ridiculous changes have no merit or improve the story as Tolkien wrote it... So IMO there was no real reason to change the story other than ego and dollar signs.

I know people don't like hearing that, but there are many people who have that opinion. I think many people would enjoy something a bit closer to what was written by Tolkien instead of this being some made up story by Jackson in the guise of the Hobbit. Because the Hobbit Jackson gave us, is only loosely based on the Hobbit Tolkien wrote. Some people are just happy to get more middle earth and do not care in what context it is given to them. I think if a closer version of the film were released people who at this point in time don't want to admit they would enjoy it, probably would. Besides if they like Jackson's altered Hobbit that much its still there for them to enjoy but those who think PJ went too far away from the actual story of the Hobbit would have a version that they would like better. What would it hurt?


imin
Valinor


Jan 29 2013, 4:52pm

Post #16 of 52 (395 views)
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Didn't someone do this for the lotr trilogy? [In reply to] Can't Post

Obviously not PJ but some random guy and then uploaded them?

I think its harsh to ask PJ to do this but i would be interested to see how these films could be re edited to make a less bloated/more streamlined film.

I am doubtful it would be better though, unless you are an editor of film already.

Something i would prefer would be another director do another adaptation of Tolkien's work at some point - if anything just so the films dont become THE vision of M-e and for someone else to have their take on it.


andwise
Rivendell


Jan 29 2013, 4:59pm

Post #17 of 52 (377 views)
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sure why not? [In reply to] Can't Post

Well said roheryn,some folk are never happy if its not their own way....

Arrow....black arrow,I have saved you to the last.you have never failed me and always I have recovered you.I had you from my father and he from old.if ever you came from the forges of the true king under the mountain,go now and speed well


bborchar
Rohan


Jan 29 2013, 5:13pm

Post #18 of 52 (386 views)
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There's already a "true to the book" version... [In reply to] Can't Post

...that Tolkien himself even helped with. I don't get why people want to cut this one up, when they could just watch the Bakshi version of The Hobbit and be done with it. Thorin is old, the dwarves are stereotypical and not funny, Azog is dead, the backstory remains unexplained, and the BoFA is glanced over, and it's not connected to LotR. That's everything that people want, right? And since it's almost exactly like the book, that means everyone should like it better, right? If that's what you want, watch that one. I'll take what PJ did in this version as the one that I like.


imin
Valinor


Jan 29 2013, 5:26pm

Post #19 of 52 (372 views)
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Want a real life version maybe? [In reply to] Can't Post

There are quite a few though would would love a Bakshi version turned into real life by living actors.

Technically Thorin shoudlnt be that old either at least not in looks as he is not in his 240's at the time of the hobbit and never gets there obviously, lol.

Ultimately the best true to the book version exists already and has done for over 75 years Tongue


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jan 29 2013, 6:53pm

Post #20 of 52 (362 views)
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Not to be picky but [In reply to] Can't Post

It was Rankin & Bass that did the Hobbit cartoon, not Ralph Bakshi.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Jan 29 2013, 7:13pm

Post #21 of 52 (357 views)
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already seen a fan edit [In reply to] Can't Post

that cuts out all the fan fiction made up content of Peter Jackson's and puts the story as it should be...As close to the way Tolkien wrote it as possible. Making the story about Bilbo and his journey with the dwarves instead of making it more about middle earth in general. It follows the book and keeps everything that is needed and cuts out all the made up nonsense that causes the story to deviate into something NOT the Hobbit. I was surprised to see almost ALL the Radagast parts and the whole Azog horrible storyline was removed... Just proving that a closer to the book version would have been possible and just as entertaining Wink


bborchar
Rohan


Jan 29 2013, 7:14pm

Post #22 of 52 (342 views)
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Oops.. [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks, my mistake :)


Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Grey Havens

Jan 29 2013, 7:29pm

Post #23 of 52 (359 views)
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I canīt help thinking [In reply to] Can't Post

Some actors when in a promotional interview of a film they say the script is awesome, and the special efects a never seen before experience. And then the film is something very different of what they told. It was an exciting cliche to catch the audience.

Iīm sorry, and I have a strong apreciation for PJ and coīs work. I love that crew of people. BUT, I canīt help thinking that there is a money interest behind the idea of makig three films. And yes, they say that there was the chance to show more midde earth. Ok with that. But I dont buy it. Nowadays making surprising films is very difficult because we have seen almost everything on screen. Hobbit to be the success it was suposed should have been a more titanic effort.

I have a sad feeling that PJ in his heart feels like butter streched over too much bread. I think 3 films is too much bread.

I still defend the idea of those withe council plots to be shown on an special DVD edition. We, the fans, surely would have devoured it. But now we have the chance to see in EE some new scenes, probably little scenes actually of a lesser weight compared of what could have been an extra scene about the Necromancer. I guess Hobbit EEs would hav been more successfull than LOTR ones if they have putted al withe council plot as a real money worthy and interesting point to catch the EE.

Regarding the films, I dont know, I canīt see a billion of box office to be a massive success when the film alone could have costed 150 milion aprox. I remember box offices like Jurassic Park for example when a film was 90 milion budget and then th box office was huge. But this thing about the box office is pointless here. That I wanted to say is that all those classic films flow. And for me AUJ doesnt flow. And I cant see the incoming Hobbit films will flow in that magical and easy way that both movies and classical albums flow.

My take is that this was a quick decision based on interests far beyond making a Hobbit translation to the screen. Many people say that ŋHow can I dare to say that wile Im not a directr etc? I dare. Call me arogant or whatever I dont care. But the movies could have been better if they have done only two. I love PJ but thank God this movie has putted me away of being the fan I was, because I wasnīt critical with him. I have been trying to undersand this and that, and I have done the exercise of trying to love the movie without the feeling that I was suffering the will of a little child that wanted to show me his jokes (trying to love it but is still boring sometimes). It was the same feeling when I watched the scene on ROTK EE when Aragorn takes over the pirates. It was like ŋdid they wasted some thousands of dollars in a cameo scene?. And some kind of this came to me when I was watching some scenes that were so far to the book. I LOVE the scene when they discuss the mission on Bag End that is a magic moment. And there is some great stuff.Iī m complaining because if the movie was bad at all points there was no discussion for me, but feeling some moments that are so good and other that flops for me.

I saw PJ very tired before start shooting, and he told he never wanted to do it because it was a huge task, but TH was a shorter book, perhaps it wasnīt supossed to be so hard as LOTR, they knew the ways to do it, it wasnīt a pioneer experience. And then they came up with three! Is like when you are running a marathon and you are exausted beyond your possibilities and you decide to run another mile after the end of the run, the most probably thing that could happen is a flop!

I can understand artist decisions on your own stuff, but not in an adaptation. And to say more in an adaptation of a 300 pages book.he book It is not been improved thats been my very first feeling when I saw it. Then I tried to put my love for PJ and co in te middle but I canīt take no more.

This is my own opinion folks: when things are so easy to do, and you just donīt do it, something is not working.

And The Hobbit was so easy to adapt.

I complain here because I want to love it, but I canīt in the way I meanted. In the way I loved the book, in the way I loved the story itself.

I can understand that cinema is a very different animal than a book, but I understand that in the way ,for example, to make a long story shorter, and showing the esence of the story when you cant show all of those bits that in the book bring you the heart of the story. But I canīt understand when you are suposed to spent less time in a cinema than reading a book, and you take a short book and you expand it in a way that sometimes you miss the main character (where was Bilbo since he gets Sting and they leave Rivendell?) Iīm sorry but I canīt understand that. I can but the reasons that come to mind are bad, something has been crying since the first viewing: No, no, no! every time I wanted to love the movie and understad with kindness those decisions the same way I did when I saw LOTR, but that feeling came to me each time and now I am facing it.

I understood the LOTR changes,they where made with faithfullness, not same here I fear.

If this work is not at the level that was expected because PJ wasnīt ready to do it then PJ, I love you nothing hapens, that was good.

But if it was by a money decission then I complain because I paid my ticket in the hope of seeing something there were anouncing: The Hobbit. If you argue that they paid the rights and they where free to do so, OK with that. But that could be considered false publicity, because The Hobbit wansīt there in its own magic. And I tried to love it another three times paying my tiket, but I couldnt. Not all of it, but one part of me feels deceived .

Some people complained in its time that EEīs where a trick to make more money, and I told them : No , this is fair because the book is longer and here we can see more bits. But Iīm out of arguments here folks Iīm really really sorry, you canīt imagine the level of sadness I have since this has become a part of my life the past years. My mother recognized PJīS vocice due to the several times I putted the DVD extras. She was like: Oh another time with that! - when he heard him, and she ended watching even the extras with me, she loved it. But this has for me a suspicious smell and sadly nowadays I can see on TV many cases of suspicios things on political issues here in Spain, a lot of corruption, a lot of money interest , a lot Dragon sickness. I am not a paranoic, more sadly even, I am a sufering victim of that. And thank God here we are talking entertaining issues not political...

Time will tell and I hope I am wrong.

If you bore me I will take my revenge...this is it.

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true!


Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Grey Havens

Jan 29 2013, 7:31pm

Post #24 of 52 (341 views)
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I told ya [In reply to] Can't Post

It is like preaching in the dessert but it works

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true!


Rostron2
Gondor


Jan 29 2013, 7:38pm

Post #25 of 52 (324 views)
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I agree with this take. [In reply to] Can't Post

I can enjoy it for what it is. Sometimes you only reach 80% of the people with choices, but that's still a majority.

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