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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
"I have never been so wrong!"
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Kimtc
Rohan


Jan 28 2013, 11:18pm

Post #1 of 65 (2176 views)
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"I have never been so wrong!" Can't Post

Like Thorin, you may have been wrong about something. Unlike Thorin, you may have it immortalized on the Internet, there to be read in electronic perpetuity. I was doing a post search for some info, and read a lot of messages that contained hard and fast opinions about what would and wouldn't work, before a camera had even been turned on. [This does not include me, because I was a lurker here for almost 13 years (!) and only started to post recently]. So go ahead, tell us if there were any posts that you regret writing, and if you could scrub them off the message boards you would (with bleach). These could include:

--Three films? Inconceivable!
--Thorin must be played by someone over the age of 60!
--I didn't see color-coded capes in the vlogs. They must have color-coded capes.
--No hot dwarves!
--Who the heck is [actor you never heard of]?
--The film looks too realistic!
--There weren't any ______in the book! It won't work!

This could even be the opposite, i.e. "I think three films isn't enough!" only to find that you were asleep by the end of the first 20 minutes.

So go ahead, it's good for you to get it out. Even though this means you will now have immortalized it twice.


jtarkey
Rohan


Jan 28 2013, 11:29pm

Post #2 of 65 (1048 views)
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I regret being too optimistic... [In reply to] Can't Post

I love pretty much everything about the LOTR trilogy. PJ did such a phenomenal job with that, and I really thought we were in completely safe hands from the beginning. The biggest blow for me was the switch to 3 films. It just never resonated right with me, and right then, my expectations dropped significantly.

I thought I would like 48fps a lot... "I have never been so wrong"

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"


Escapist
Gondor


Jan 28 2013, 11:44pm

Post #3 of 65 (971 views)
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I underestimated how well it would do at the box office ... alot. [In reply to] Can't Post

I underestimated its potential to win award nominations.

Otherwise it is just a matter of distortion of the extent of things. I was wrong about how much AUJ was expected to be like LOTR and by the number of people who held these expectations. I remember discussing on message boards about how the original material of TH was distinct from LOTR and feeling it was settled - but I was very wrong. I was also off by a significant margin in my estimation of the expectations set for this film based on a short children's book.


bborchar
Rohan


Jan 29 2013, 12:04am

Post #4 of 65 (907 views)
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Not sure if this counts... [In reply to] Can't Post

...but I thought I would like "Les MisÚrables" more than "The Hobbit". For some reason, I just wasn't very excited to see The Hobbit...I was always going to watch it, of course, but I thought it might not be my cup of tea. I was so wrong - Les Miz was just okay, but I loved The Hobbit.


Yva
Rivendell


Jan 29 2013, 12:09am

Post #5 of 65 (933 views)
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This will be a boring movie with lots of boring dwarves and one silly hobbit. [In reply to] Can't Post

D'oh!


IdrilofGondolin
Rohan

Jan 29 2013, 12:19am

Post #6 of 65 (947 views)
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I Was Wrong About the Critics [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought they would treat AUJ with the same respect they treated LOTR. Instead it seemed to me that they were determined not to like it. And some of the reviews were just plain awful. The first review I read was full of errors,ie, Middle Earth history, name and places-- you'd have thought the review hadn't actually seen the film.


jtarkey
Rohan


Jan 29 2013, 1:21am

Post #7 of 65 (838 views)
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Some were definetly very harsh [In reply to] Can't Post

It was frustrating to read something to the effect of "PJ treats us to an unnecessary stop in rivendell". It was just so obvious they didn't know the story to begin with.

However, ironically, Rivendell felt like a totally unnecessary stop in the film for me. In FOTR, it felt like a much needed rest and time for a decision. In AUJ, it made the narrative come to a grinding halt. This is not the fault of the book, or difference in the narratives between The Hobbit and LOTR. It was a fault of the production, and the way they translated it to film.

In short, I understand critics displeasure with the film. The movie flows more like a completely literal translation of the text (given a lot was added to the story rather than subtracted). It just didn't seem to work as well (cinematically) as the LOTR trilogy. I don't think critics are wrong for thinking this. It is an opinion shared by many people. I would say, with confidence, that the mixed reviews are due to a "mixed bag" film. Some people love everything. Some people hate everything. Some people love some things, and hate others.

With LOTR, the opinions were pretty much favorable across the board, with the people who disliked it being in the minority. If the film was truly as monumental as LOTR, it would show. We would have more award nominations, more articles deeming the film to be a "masterpiece"..etc..

I agree that AUJ is a really great film. It only suffers from not being a landmark in cinematic history like it's predecessors. I think this is also the conclusion of many critics.

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"


glor
Rohan

Jan 29 2013, 1:29am

Post #8 of 65 (809 views)
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agreed but some were just funny... [In reply to] Can't Post

..Like a few I read that slated AUJ pointing out, without any irony, sarcasm or nudge,nudge wink, wink, what so ever, that none of the main characters are going to die in the trilogy....

..Crazy head desk


glor
Rohan

Jan 29 2013, 2:07am

Post #9 of 65 (785 views)
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well.. [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
However, ironically, Rivendell felt like a totally unnecessary stop in the film for me. In FOTR, it felt like a much needed rest and time for a decision

It was also the pivotal moment when the Fellowship was created on screen and key characters introduced. In AUJ it just a refuge, one British reviewer described Rivendell in AUJ as the 'Heston Services' of Middle-Earth.


Quote

I understand critics displeasure with the film



I would do if their criticisms were consistent. For some it was too much action, for anothers not enough, the initial Bag End scences and Blunt the Knives especially were criticised for being pointless/boring and most importantly padding and yet to leave them out would have been heresy for anyone whom has read the book.


Quote
If the film was truly as monumental as LOTR, it would show. We would have more award nominations, more articles deeming the film to be a "masterpiece"..etc..


I think there are certain types of films, not genre as such but styles that critics praise, these include well made epics, which LOTR was, without doubt. However, the history of cinema teaches us that awards and initial praise are not always the hallmarks of a classic or a film worthy of that praise. Sometimes a film can be out of step with the mood so to speak and as a result savaged and ignored only to be considered a masterpiece some years later (Blade Runner, one of the finest films ever made, a timeless classic was one of those films that bombed with the box office and got severely ravaged by the critics on release).

Honestly I loved AUJ, but I don't think as a stand alone film it falls into the masterpiece catergory however, judgement for me at least will be reserved when I see the other two parts of the film. However, AUJ was a very unusual film for it's genre, both fantasy and blockbuster, where the actors were permitted to breathe genuine life into their performances. Performances that reminded me of some of the theatrical perfomances I have witnessed on the London stage, and I have seen Sir Ian, Patrick Stewart, Derick Jacobi, Ken Stott, John Hurt, and the phenomenal Jerusalem with Mark Rylance..some of the actors in AUJ have conveyed their characters without having a single line in English at least.

There is one exception to the above that's Slyvester McCoy, I don't know whether it's because he's miscast or just terrible in most things(sorry old enough to recollect him ruining Dr Who and making bad childrens TV)

I have done a little research on this and as far I can ascertain no actor in history has every won an oscar for a role in sci-fi/fantasy film and that is without a motion capture suit!



swordwhale
Grey Havens


Jan 29 2013, 3:51am

Post #10 of 65 (787 views)
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I have never been so wrong... [In reply to] Can't Post

I read LOTR in 1978. Because I borrowed a tent from a second cousin and he told me about this game they played: D&D. I showed up for a game (the only girl out of a shipload of guys), rolled up a character, waved it at the DM and said...

"What do I make of this???"

"Play an Elf."

"What? You mean like Hermie in Rudolph the Rednosed Reindeer???"

"Read Lord of the Rings."

So I did. Because I had to figure out who these darn Elves were. I loved them, I loved LOTR. I role-played, wrote and commited art, joined a medieval reinactor group (wielding bow and sword), taught my patient gelding to work sans saddle and rein because Legolas made it look so cool in the book.

Somewhere in there I read the Hobbit and... OK, that was nice... back to the Elves...

Of course I wanted more Middle Earth from Peter Jackson (would have preferred The Silmarillion, but that wasn't going to happen). Of course three or four films was fine. Or a TV series, or something... just more more more.

Gawd... there's like 13 Dwarves and a Hobbit in this thing.

Sigh.

Then I saw the character posters for the Dwarves.

???!!!!!!!????????? !!!!

Boring stubborn stoic stodgy fat guys in beards.

Never have I been so wrong.

I bow to thee oh Majestic WETA artists. And to thee Sir Peter. And to the 13 actors who slogged through Middle Earth in layers of costumery and wiggery and latex. Thou art Awesome.

And some of thou art hot. Or endearing or wise or funny or lovely or fascinating or simply Majestic. I have seen decades of fantasy art with the same stereotypical Dwarves, and these films blow them apart.

Wow.

Now... if I can just figure out how to make Bofur's hat...

Go outside and play...


Rostron2
Gondor


Jan 29 2013, 4:33am

Post #11 of 65 (714 views)
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Good phrase [In reply to] Can't Post

I think by the end of the third film, a lot of people...and maybe a few critics...will be saying that, if only to themselves.


Angharad73
Rohan

Jan 29 2013, 5:44am

Post #12 of 65 (746 views)
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To be honest... [In reply to] Can't Post

...I thought I would not like Bilbo. Or at least like him enough to enjoy entire movies where he is the main character. I like the Hobbit book and all and I don't mind him in the LOTR books, but I did not like his character much in the LOTR movies, for some reason, so I did not expect to like him in these movies now.

Well, I have never been so wrong..."

Now, I actually think he is quite adorable...


dormouse
Half-elven


Jan 29 2013, 9:27am

Post #13 of 65 (624 views)
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Two things.... [In reply to] Can't Post

I didn't think Martin Freeman was the best choice for Bilbo - I was certainly wrong about that.

I didn't like the idea of 3D. I'll go 50-50 on that. I still say I'd have been happy with a 2D film and ordinary 24 fps 3D doesn't work for me at all, but 48fps is breathtaking and beautiful, and I love it.


Old Toby
Gondor


Jan 29 2013, 3:19pm

Post #14 of 65 (514 views)
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3D HFR [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought I wouldn't like the 3D, since I'm not a big 3D fan. The only film I ever liked better in 3D was Avatar. And I was concerned, given all the advance negative talk about the HFR by the press, how it would all turn out. Yup, I've never been so wrong! I absolutely love the 3D HFR. I've seen it twice now in 2D but in that format it is often blurry, the colors are washed out, and it's way too bright, so by comparison the 3D HFR is head and shoulders better. And I love how it puts you right into the picture. Sold!

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)


Loresilme
Valinor


Jan 29 2013, 3:45pm

Post #15 of 65 (495 views)
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Same here [In reply to] Can't Post

Had never liked 3D, but the HFR 3D blew me away. I was able to catch it 3 times in HFR at my local theater before they pulled it Mad.

After they pulled it I opted for the IMAX 3D but it's not the same at all. And 2D was the worst - just like your experience, I found it blurred and washed out.

Now that I'm used to HFR I'm spoiled for anything less Sly.


imin
Valinor


Jan 29 2013, 4:27pm

Post #16 of 65 (509 views)
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Expectations were way way too high [In reply to] Can't Post

As such nothing would ever be good enough. That is my big regret is letting my expectations and excitement get to a level that was not realistic. Its fun in the build up but then crashes down when watching the film.

I never liked the idea of three films and was dubious about the use of HFR - i still think it would have been better as two films (perhaps if done by a different director) and i am pleased to say i was wrong about HFR - overall i like it and i like the fact we have more choice - just as i like 3D for those same reasons.

I had a good idea that MF would be great as Bilbo and no real firm idea on how any of the dwarves will be. Still dont think a few of them look like dwarves but when on screen moving around it doesnt matter so much.

My biggest i have never been so wrong would be Radagast - i thought he was going to be brilliant. He was not.

Overall there was disappointment but its not the films fault, more mine. I am sure when the EE come out i will have a much more positive opinion on the films as i prefer the EE of lotr trilogy plus my expectations will be at a level that is useful for watching a film.


cartermoulton
Bree


Jan 29 2013, 4:36pm

Post #17 of 65 (542 views)
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about that scene [In reply to] Can't Post

not to be off topic but did anyone else find this scene a bit over-the-top? why would he act super angry and then reveal he's not mad and hug bilbo? who does that?

cineaesthetic, a high-res media blog


imin
Valinor


Jan 29 2013, 4:41pm

Post #18 of 65 (514 views)
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You are not the first to think that [In reply to] Can't Post

and it has been discussed here quite a few times i believe, with some people saying it was cliche and over the top, others defending it.

In real life, pretty much no one does that! And it is a well known cliche - works for some, pulls people out of the movie for others.


bborchar
Rohan


Jan 29 2013, 5:03pm

Post #19 of 65 (481 views)
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I always read it more as... [In reply to] Can't Post

...he's mad at himself. I know I've done it...I realize that I've something wrong, but then I try to blame it on someone else (who hasn't done that?). He's not the type of character who expresses gratitude easily, and he definitely isn't going to admit he was wrong very easily. When I first saw that scene, I could tell his feelings had changed, and he was just being blustery about it. It would have felt wrong for his character to just have admitted it forthright without a bit of "laying blame" on Bilbo first (How could you go and get yourself killed for me?). I know no one else has to think of it that way, but that's why I liked that scene very much.


florian
The Shire

Jan 29 2013, 5:08pm

Post #20 of 65 (465 views)
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I didn't mind the scene and thought it worked well [In reply to] Can't Post

but I saw his "anger" not really as anger but as him going over all the ways he had been wrong about Bilbo, like he was sorta confessing his "sins" against him before he admitted he was wrong.

ETA: Agree with the above post as well.


(This post was edited by florian on Jan 29 2013, 5:10pm)


andwise
Rivendell


Jan 29 2013, 5:11pm

Post #21 of 65 (472 views)
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maybe not 'wrong' [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think that i was ever so set on anything that i thought had to be in the movie..but...I remember thinking that RA was a strange choice for thorin.my doubts were completely put to bed because Mr armitage is awesome.he's managed to do what Ian mckellan did in FOTR and make a fantasy character totally real,with a touch of Sean bean in there too.mckellan should have got the supporting actor Oscar for what he did and so should RA but it won't happen I fear.

Arrow....black arrow,I have saved you to the last.you have never failed me and always I have recovered you.I had you from my father and he from old.if ever you came from the forges of the true king under the mountain,go now and speed well


imin
Valinor


Jan 29 2013, 5:18pm

Post #22 of 65 (458 views)
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I dont see it like that [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
.I realize that I've something wrong, but then I try to blame it on someone else (who hasn't done that?). .


I dont think he is trying to blame Bilbo. It's just a standard cliche but they are cliches as they work essentially - for most people.

For me it didnt work and made me roll my eyes as i was like 'seriously they are making these two good actors do this' then i remembered MF in Love Actually and lolled.

It just seemed very clunky to me and could have been done better, especially if he just thanked Bilbo. A thanks can come straight off without any of the theatrics he did without sounding easy for the dwarf to say. I think it was just unnatural and a shame PJ felt his audience needed it to be spelled out in such an obvious way - we are more intelligent than that!

But i dont want this to be another thing about this scene i was just replying to the poster and said some like it and others dont, i just happened to be in the dont mass.


imin
Valinor


Jan 29 2013, 5:19pm

Post #23 of 65 (446 views)
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Yeah it was more anger at himself [In reply to] Can't Post

and blaming himself.


Angharad73
Rohan

Jan 29 2013, 5:27pm

Post #24 of 65 (444 views)
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That's how I thought of it, too! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thorin certainly is not the type of person who easily admits that he was wrong. Maybe his pride has suffered a bit with all that. And perhaps he is angry not so much at Bilbo but at himself and the fact that he now has to admit to having been wrong about something.


arithmancer
Grey Havens

Jan 29 2013, 5:29pm

Post #25 of 65 (444 views)
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I found it natural, personally [In reply to] Can't Post

Thorin's first "angry" comment to Bilbo is asking him what he thought he was doing, he almost got himself killed! While angry in delivery, this type of comment is not necessarily hostile to the person it is aimed at (common example being the reaction of a parent to a child who has done something dangerous). It was also, I note, made after Thorin was reassured by Gandalf that Bilbo was safe.

Thorin's second angry comment was not, if one was listening to what he said, actually in any way denouncing Bilbo. He says, "Did I not say (list of negative things Thorin said to Bilbo at other points in the film)?" Bilbo's reaction suggests he did not catch this subtlety in Thorin's phrasing. Then again, based on his recent experiences of Thorin, he well might not, their last two interactions having meet Thorin telling Bilbo he should never have come, followed by Thorin expressing the view to all and sundry, that Bilbo had slunk off home. I did not see what was coming but did find the phrasing odd, the first time I saw the scene.

And then he repudiated those statements ("I have never been so wrong") and apologized for making them ("I am sorry I doubted you").

I love this scene...

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