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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
every bit as good as 'rings'
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andwise
Rivendell


Jan 28 2013, 9:03pm

Post #1 of 60 (1337 views)
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every bit as good as 'rings' Can't Post

There has been weeks of debate now about whether the hobbit is as good as its illustrious predesessor,some saying yes others saying no.I love it and think in time it will be seen as an equal....BUT,what I also think is that when PJ made the rings trilogy the stars did actually align for him and the whole project in general,much the same as when a band or artist record a difinitive album,sure,they can write stuff just as good in the future but it won't be viewed as such by fans because of the magic etc that surrounded the earlier release isn't quite the same for obvious reasons.I think in fact that he has pulled off a minor miracle in creating something that in my view is equal to what came before and he should be applauded for that.I would be interested to know what other people think.Smile

Arrow....black arrow,I have saved you to the last.you have never failed me and always I have recovered you.I had you from my father and he from old.if ever you came from the forges of the true king under the mountain,go now and speed well


MorgolKing
Rivendell

Jan 28 2013, 9:13pm

Post #2 of 60 (708 views)
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I disagree [In reply to] Can't Post

I enjoy the Hobbit: AUJ and was thrilled to go back to Middle Earth.

However, I disagree that it's on par with any of "the Rings" movies. On one hand, PJ started at distinct disadvantage in tackling a project that doesn't have the same urgency or flow in narrative that the LoTR have -- AUJ is simply event-after-event-after-event in comparison.

However, making the slap stick humor (e.g., the brown wizard, the goblin king commenting on his own death and then falling on top of the dwarves) was PJ's choice and detracted from the film in my opinion. In addition, the White Council scene, which was one of the scenes I was most looking forward to, was a huge disappointment. Galadriel's overemphasized role and the story of the nazgul being entombed was ridiculous.

Other will disagree and that's just my opinion. Most movies have flaws, but these were just glaring.

I will say I thoroughly enjoyed most of the movie though.


Radagast-Aiwendil
Gondor


Jan 28 2013, 9:22pm

Post #3 of 60 (627 views)
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I liked it as much as Rings [In reply to] Can't Post

I can't say it was what I expected in the slightest (the inclusion of Azog in such a prominent role threw me the first time, I must say), but I felt that it captured the book's more whimsical tone very well. In my opinion you really can't compare it to Rings: whether it's designed to be a prequel trilogy or not is irrelevant, the storytelling in both film and book is very different and I found it to be both lighter and (in some places) darker than many 'dark' scenes in LOTR.

Yes, I can see very clearly why many don't like it, and yes PJ left a lot of room for himself to trip with the portrayal of certain characters, but fortunately I feel that the actors in those endangered roles really saved the day: the likes of McCoy, Humphries and Bennett (Radagast, Goblin King and Azog) did a great job with their characters if you ask me.

The only real disappointment for me was Ori, but fortunately he didn't have too much screen time.

"These are Gundabad Wargs! They will outrun you!"

"THESE are Rhosgobel Rabbits! I'd like to see them try...."



jtarkey
Rohan


Jan 28 2013, 9:23pm

Post #4 of 60 (629 views)
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It's a good film, but not on the same level as LOTR for me... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think, in the future, it will still be viewed as a bumpy start to the new trilogy for a few reasons:

1. Design Aesthetic: The 48fps, accompanied with the crisp digital look of the film is a big departure from LOTR. This is all a matter of opinion, but I'm just not as impressed with the general way AUJ looked.

2. Switch to 3 Films: This will always leave people wondering "what could have been" if the films had remained at 2. I really think there is some filler in the film that just wasn't needed.

3. Overuse of CGI: The film felt very cramped for me. This probably has a lot to do with the amount of indoor sets and CGI in the film. It just didn't feel as real as LOTR did.

I could list more, but I won't in fear of someone getting offended (even though this is simply MY opinion). You make a good point about the stars aligning for LOTR. There were so many things in that production that happened by chance that actually benefited the film. In the end, I just feel like PJ made some wrong aesthetic and scripting descisions with The Hobbit.

There are plenty of things I love about the film. Martin Freeman, Ian Mckellen, Andy Serkis. Riddles in the Dark was awesome, as was the prologue and everything in Bag End. It just wasn't on the same level as LOTR for me. I don't think it has much to do with nostalgia, or the difference in stories. I just think that the film making was not at the same level in general.

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"


swordwhale
Tol Eressea


Jan 28 2013, 9:24pm

Post #5 of 60 (705 views)
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in the opinion of me, my friends and several gazillion fangirls... [In reply to] Can't Post

We loved it!

I should explain that I always liked LOTR (book) better than Hobbit book). I also identified with the Elves ( http://www.swordwhale.com/tales-of-middle-earth.html ). The Dwarves were fine, but a bit too much like the folks I grew up around (feeling like a total alien).

Yeah, then WETA and PJ gave us 13 fantastic lovable characters. And Bofur. And I'm going to have to turn in my Mirkwood Party Elf membership.

Seriously folks, The Hobbit book has a totally different flavor than LOTR (written in a different time for a different audience), PJ tried to capture some of that. You may or may not like that flavor (I can't stand cherry) but there it is. I like the quirkiness, the exaggeration, the humor. Hobbit is written in a more spare style (like a storyteller around a campfire telling a tale in the oral tradition)... I don't like that style at all, I love the epic detail of LOTR. But the spare style of Hobbit leaves more room for the filmakers to play.

It is not LOTR. Nothing can ever be LOTR. And that's fine. It's Hobbit. It's wonderful.

And I want that hat... already have the bunny sled (the dogs ate 'em so they have to pull it).

Go outside and play...


Kimtc
Rohan


Jan 28 2013, 9:26pm

Post #6 of 60 (619 views)
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I've truly come to love this movie! [In reply to] Can't Post

I have said this before, but I find the characterization and acting in this movie to be more compelling than the trilogy (with the exception of Boromir and Gandalf). Nothing against the acting in the first movie, but I just feel like the characters were more two dimensional. I am also enjoying the "surprise" aspect of these films, since with the additional material I don't know what could happen (except for the obvious plot points from the book). For me, it's right there with FOTR, and may be moving ahead.

Plus I love, love, love the HFR. Did I say I love it?


Angharad73
Rohan

Jan 28 2013, 9:48pm

Post #7 of 60 (593 views)
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It's different [In reply to] Can't Post

AUJ is very different from the LOTR trilogy. Consider the sources, the books the movies are based on. LOTR is an epic story that is basically about saving the world. The Hobbit takes place on a much smaller scale, and the darves are setting out to recover their property and get their home back, not to save the world from evil. That makes two very different stories to begin with, so of course AUJ and the subsequent movies are not going to be another LOTR. How could they be when the underlying themes of the stories are so different? But that doesn't mean that the Hobbit movies are any worse than the LOTR movies. It's a matter of taste.

And I, for one, love AUJ just as much as I love LOTR. But I see it as a very different type of story. Sure, the movie takes us back to Middle Earth, and there are some familiar characters in it, but it moves at a different pace, there is room for humour (after all, the book is hilarious in places) and it is a 'lighter' story on the whole. There is also room to dwell on individuals more, I think, which I appreciate. There still is room for some big stuff - after all, there's a dragon to defeat, and then there is a big battle at the end, with a lot of tragic death... But until then, I'll just go back to admiring Thorin & Co. toss their marvelous hair about. Because there's room for that too Tongue


Rostron2
Gondor


Jan 28 2013, 9:50pm

Post #8 of 60 (586 views)
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There's two more films [In reply to] Can't Post

To satisfy people with.

I'm just glad the things got made, and the overall entertainment value was as high. Could I have done without the silly? I don't know. I think it leaves room for the serious sober treatment of subjects of the story to come. The next two will be different from the setup film.


bborchar
Rohan


Jan 28 2013, 10:05pm

Post #9 of 60 (618 views)
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I will probably end up liking The Hobbit more... [In reply to] Can't Post

...because I feel like the characters are more approachable. In LotR, you meet so many new characters so quickly, and are deluged with one crisis after another in different parts of Middle Earth, that it's hard to get really attached to anyone for very long. But I don't feel that way at all with the Hobbit. The characters are upfront and very honest about their emotions, and (I think this is a HUGE plus) you get to stay with these same characters throughout the story. Some have complained about the pacing...but I love it. You get to know most of the main characters (which is a feat in and of itself) without having to stray to other areas of the world. I love that I really identify with Thorin and his quest, and that I get to see Bilbo really test his mettle. I also like seeing Gandalf a little more carefree.

I also felt a little claustrophobic, like one other person mentioned...and at first, I wondered if it was because of the CGI or sets they used...but then I realized that they spend a good chunk of the film either in Bilbo's house, or in the caves of the Misty Mountains. That's just my feelings, though.

Don't flame me...I'm not saying it's better than LotR...I'm just saying that I personally am enjoying it more than I thought I would; and I never thought anything would come close to FotR.


Rostron2
Gondor


Jan 28 2013, 10:51pm

Post #10 of 60 (538 views)
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Agreed with you... [In reply to] Can't Post

It's just different from LOTR in tone, pacing, characters, objectives, just about everything but the world.

I'll let Smaug flame you :)


Heatherleawv
Bree


Jan 29 2013, 1:30am

Post #11 of 60 (461 views)
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Each [In reply to] Can't Post

time I've watched the Hobbit I liked it more and more. I pretty much like it as much as the LOTR trilogy.

Do you think PJ made AUJ with some slapstick because the next two movies are going to be more serious and action oriented?


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jan 29 2013, 2:28am

Post #12 of 60 (449 views)
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Almost exactly this, with the exception of the fact that I severely disliked the alterations to [In reply to] Can't Post

some of the appendix based history. The book had material far better and far more to my liking. Otherwise, I agree entirely. I greatly enjoyed this film. In many places it had a greater warmth, and some of the characters a greater authenticity than in Rings, even though many of the themes were less, and some of the more elegant wonders were less wrenchingly powerful.

In Reply To
AUJ is very different from the LOTR trilogy. Consider the sources, the books the movies are based on. LOTR is an epic story that is basically about saving the world. The Hobbit takes place on a much smaller scale, and the darves are setting out to recover their property and get their home back, not to save the world from evil. That makes two very different stories to begin with, so of course AUJ and the subsequent movies are not going to be another LOTR. How could they be when the underlying themes of the stories are so different? But that doesn't mean that the Hobbit movies are any worse than the LOTR movies. It's a matter of taste.

And I, for one, love AUJ just as much as I love LOTR. But I see it as a very different type of story. Sure, the movie takes us back to Middle Earth, and there are some familiar characters in it, but it moves at a different pace, there is room for humour (after all, the book is hilarious in places) and it is a 'lighter' story on the whole. There is also room to dwell on individuals more, I think, which I appreciate. There still is room for some big stuff - after all, there's a dragon to defeat, and then there is a big battle at the end, with a lot of tragic death.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Kirly
Lorien


Jan 29 2013, 2:31am

Post #13 of 60 (449 views)
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better, so far than LOTR /// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

My avatar photo is Lake Tekapo in New Zealand's South Island. Taken by me in 2004 on a Red Carpet Tours LOTR Movie Location Tour. 'Twas the Vacation of a Lifetime!

pictures taken while on the tour are here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/Kirly7/LOTRNewZealandTour#


Elessar
Valinor


Jan 29 2013, 3:09am

Post #14 of 60 (437 views)
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I agree but....... [In reply to] Can't Post

With the caveat that its as good as being The Hobbit as The Lord of the Rings is at being The Lord of the Rings. All four films have been done very well and I feel capture much of what I love in regards to Tolkien's creation but they also have some issues. In the end for me Jackson did a pretty superb job of taking a world I care a lot about and create some amazing experiences in the theater.



Eowyn3
Rivendell

Jan 29 2013, 3:32am

Post #15 of 60 (418 views)
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I couldn't agree more [In reply to] Can't Post

The Hobbit was always my least favorite Tolkien book. I liked, but not nearly as much as LOTR. However, after seeing the AUJ and re- reading the Hobbit, I find myself enjoying it so much more. I really like the movie, and I think PJ did a great job keeping the lighter tones of the Hobbit and still making a great movie that the fans can enjoy. I love the movie and have watched it 6 times. The only character that I didn't like the way portrayed was Radagast. He went a little over the top with that. But no problem, I can overlook that. Glad to have more time in Middle Earth!


Esmeralda
Bree


Jan 29 2013, 3:47am

Post #16 of 60 (426 views)
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I remember [In reply to] Can't Post

when LotR came out. Such wailings of how things were changed, added or left out. But for all the departures, I could feel that the heart of the story was *true*.

I feel the same thing with the Hobbit. I am enthralled by the expansion of Thorin's story, and I can see how the use of the White Council will connect this story to the larger framework of LotR. The more times I watch, the more layers I see.

PJ has given us a treasure, one that will grow deeper and more vast the farther in we go.


Rostron2
Gondor


Jan 29 2013, 4:29am

Post #17 of 60 (401 views)
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Agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

The endless wailing about 'no scouring of the shire!' and all the Arwen hatred that had nothing to do with the character, it was because she replaced Glorfindel and/or they didn't like Liv Tyler. This has somewhat the same feeling, as you say. I've enjoyed it each time I've seen it, and I can appreciate the hard work that went into it.

Compared to a lot of trash that somehow makes it to the theaters...no there's no comparison.


Elessar
Valinor


Jan 29 2013, 4:30am

Post #18 of 60 (396 views)
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We have a bingo [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm with ya every step of the way. :)



bborchar
Rohan


Jan 29 2013, 4:33am

Post #19 of 60 (398 views)
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What? You don't consider... [In reply to] Can't Post

"Movie 43" to be a work of art?

;)


Súlimë
Rivendell


Jan 29 2013, 4:54am

Post #20 of 60 (377 views)
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Can't agree more [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't know... I just think LotR is an 'easy' adaptation compared the The Hobbit. It has pretty 'universal' themes of hope and friendship and fighting against evil.

I've come to realize that PJ did MORE for The Hobbit than he had to do for LotR. His attempt at The Hobbit is also a braver one, in a way, and I am grateful for it.

Maybe it's just me, but I really really like the innocent, intimate feel of The Hobbit. I might end up liking it more than the LotR movies.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jan 29 2013, 5:03am

Post #21 of 60 (377 views)
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Exactly. [In reply to] Can't Post

Essentialy, my exact sentiments. I might substitute the words "pretty superb", with "very good" (as you know, there were a few changes that really stuck in my teeth), but by and large, this captures my feelings pretty precisely.

In Reply To
With the caveat that its as good as being The Hobbit as The Lord of the Rings is at being The Lord of the Rings. All four films have been done very well and I feel capture much of what I love in regards to Tolkien's creation but they also have some issues. In the end for me Jackson did a pretty superb job of taking a world I care a lot about and create some amazing experiences in the theater.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Roheryn
Grey Havens

Jan 29 2013, 8:59am

Post #22 of 60 (345 views)
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Some bits as good as, yes. [In reply to] Can't Post

And I like other bits even better.

It's too early to compare the two trilogies, but I think comparing AUJ to FOTR is, as Bilbo would say, "fair enough". I make no pretensions about passing judgment on the goodness or otherwiseness of a movie. I can only say how much I like it. Like many of us, I was captivated by FOTR in a way I'd never felt before; here was my absolute favorite book of all time, brought to life in a spectacular way. That trilogy will always hold the most special place in my heart.

And AUJ? It's still new, so that may be half the fun right now, but I'm pretty sure I like it at least as much as FOTR, if not more. FOTR gave me what I wanted -- a great adaptation of my favorite book; AUJ has given me more than I knew to want, in that it has more depth, more character development, and is working on more backstory than we ever get in the book. It's a different story, so in some ways it's a bit unfair to compare the two trilogies when the style of the source material is so different. But I suspect, in the end, that The Hobbit trilogy is going to be sharing that most special place in my heart, right there with LOTR. And I might even like it better.


glor
Rohan

Jan 29 2013, 10:18am

Post #23 of 60 (319 views)
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ah yes, [In reply to] Can't Post

Sly

The film with a 6 foot 2 british actor playing a greedy pompous, gold grabbing, angry mythical short person?

Gerald Butler as a Leprechaun in Movie 43 that is.

No I haven't seen it, saw the synopsis of that sketch and thought mmmm, is someone taking the mickey


malickfan
Gondor

Jan 29 2013, 11:32am

Post #24 of 60 (349 views)
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I'm going to get alot of hate for this... [In reply to] Can't Post

But in my opinion The Hobbit was...slighty better than average. I really did feel PJ wasn't as enthused about the book as he was with LOTR, and despite a very faifthful opening act, it felt less like what I imagine when I read the book than LOTR did, the whole radagst and azog subplots felt bolted on as an excuse to make the film longer, I didn't particluary like Armiatage as Thorin, and I really felt like PJ was acting as if he was doing Tolkien a favour be rewriting the book, not adapting it (Incidently I didn't have many major problems with the LOTR trilogy, I saw the films first, and IMO they couldn't have been much more faifthful-but at least they stayed faifthful to the tone of the book, the whole reason I liked the hobbit book as becuase it was a simple childrens tale completely at odds with LOTR). I also felt there was far too much CGI, and overblown action, the slapstick humour got on my nerves a bit, the white council and riddles were good...but felt like fan service (hey look its that guy!) and the film felt like a rough cut. That's not to say I didn't like it-it was enjoyable, but I really don't see how people can call it a msterpeice, and I don't see why PJ called it the hobbit (LOTR: The Prequel Part 1 would have been a better title). Admittedly many of these issues stem from the book anyway, but I think I would have prefferred two films not three.

I never wanted The Hobbit to feel that similar to LOTR, and all the nods (the 'hey look its that guy!' feel of the white council, the reuse of LOTR music, the pointless return to weathertop (isn't the road supposed to be safer than in lotr??), the pointless (IMO) framing device and the 'Looks alot like Aragorn' Thorin etc) made the world feel smaller to me, and when Jackson did try to stick to the fairytale tone of the book, it made for a very uneven viewing.

And where was Billy Connoly as Dain???

I honestly think I would have enjoyed Del Torro's interpretation more. oh well at least The Silmarillion's safe for now...

‘As they came to the gates Cirdan the Shipwright came forth to greet them. Very tall he was, and his beard was long, and we was grey and old, save that his eyes were keen as stars; and he looked at them and bowed, and said ‘All is now ready.’

Perhaps the most fascinating Individual in Middle Earth



Elessar
Valinor


Jan 29 2013, 12:07pm

Post #25 of 60 (315 views)
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I can roll with that [In reply to] Can't Post

The issues very much fall under your mileage may vary and get we're still on the same stretch of highway. :-) :-)


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