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IdrilofGondolin
Nargothrond
Jan 22 2013, 1:19am
Post #1 of 23
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So Do You Think Fili and KIli {Spoilers for those who haven't read the book}
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Just curious about what you all think of this. My take is that Fili, Kili and Thorin are the handsome dwarves is that people will be more affected by their deaths because they are attractive. Chat away!
[edited to take spoiler out of subject line]
(This post was edited by Altaira on Jan 22 2013, 1:29am)
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bborchar
Nargothrond
Jan 22 2013, 1:21am
Post #2 of 23
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PJ hasn't been shy about killing off characters that die in the books, so I'm pretty sure they will, too. Makes it more tragic. It's also the only way that Dain can become King under the Mountain.
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Ardamírë
Doriath
Jan 22 2013, 1:53am
Post #3 of 23
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I don't really they meant to imply that, but it kind of does - as if we wouldn't care about someone dying unless they're beautiful. An unfortunate by-product of making them the sexy dwarves.
There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).
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macfalk
Doriath
Jan 22 2013, 9:36am
Post #4 of 23
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Do you think (most) males will care if the some of the dwarves are handsome?
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As in, will it have more impact on me when Fili and Kili dies because from a female perspective they are "hot" in a Legolas kind of way?
Well, no.
The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.
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Roheryn
Dor-Lomin
Jan 22 2013, 9:44am
Post #5 of 23
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Especially Kili. I think him as often as possible, but not as often as Thorin. 
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CathrineB
Nargothrond
Jan 22 2013, 11:24am
Post #6 of 23
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But I would have been heartbroken if they had decided to kill off Balin or Dwalin or Oin etc instead/too whatever. I love pretty much all the dwarves because they're so different from one another and I love it. I don't want to see anyone die!
It's a terrible thought of someone having to be attractive for their death to bed sad and I bet for some it is too :/
That being said hell yes it's going to happen. The deaths in the book. I know people keep saying the actors were hired for their good looks (sure why not), but it can't be the only reason. Aidan in particular (I saw him on "Being Human" before the Hobbit) is an amazing actor. I hope they take advantage of that.
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utku
Ossiriand
Jan 22 2013, 11:43am
Post #7 of 23
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The look is not directly related.
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But they gave Kili and Fili quite the screentime in the first movie. At least more than other dwarves and the reason is clear, they want us to bond with with the two. So the fact that they looked more human and had more charisma helped, regardless of your gender or sexual orientation. I mean I would certainly prefer to see Fili talking rather than Bombur.
(This post was edited by utku on Jan 22 2013, 11:43am)
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Radagast's Lead Bunny
Ossiriand
Jan 22 2013, 12:39pm
Post #8 of 23
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I just hope that PJ doesn't decide to kill another dwarf a la Haldir.
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bborchar
Nargothrond
Jan 22 2013, 1:04pm
Post #9 of 23
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Because the fellowship discovers his death in Moria in LotR. Fili, Kili and Thorin have to die, because they are the last of the line of Durin. If they don't die, Thorin's cousin Dain (whom we will see later in this trilogy) will not be able to ascend to the throne of Erebor. I doubt that PJ will add in extra deaths, because he's already going the get the emotional shock of killing those three off. Thorin is going to be especially difficult for viewers, since he is the main character besides Bilbo.
(This post was edited by bborchar on Jan 22 2013, 1:04pm)
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stoutfiles
Nargothrond
Jan 22 2013, 1:27pm
Post #10 of 23
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If Kili dies talking an arrow for Tauriel, then I won't be sad, just annoyed.
Then again, anything is better then the treatment they got by Tolkien, summing their deaths up in a sentence. It always seemed like he realized he wanted Dain to be King, so went back and wrote a quick sentence that they died to make it happen.
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CathrineB
Nargothrond
Jan 22 2013, 1:50pm
Post #11 of 23
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I know balin can't die here. I was just making a point that I would be sad over any of the dwarves' deaths.
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bborchar
Nargothrond
Jan 22 2013, 2:02pm
Post #12 of 23
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...in the morning, I misread your post XD Yeah, I'm really not looking forward to the last movie at all. Thorin's death in the book really had no impact on me whatsoever (it was very 'meh, he kind of deserves it')...but now that I've seen what they've done to his character in the movie, it's going to be VERY hard to watch him die. They've made him such a sympathetic character, and even with his flaws, it's still easy to like him. Same with Fili and Kili- they are only ever mentioned in passing in the book, really, and it's like "oh, a couple of extra dwarves died in a battle" at the end; but in the movie, we are seeing a family dynamic that definitely wasn't there in the book. I will definitely be bring a box of kleenex to the last movie :)
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CathrineB
Nargothrond
Jan 22 2013, 2:42pm
Post #13 of 23
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The deaths in the book was very dissapointing as well as the dwarves in general (minus Thorin) had no personalities. Just names. That's where I think the movie just makes it better.
Also Peter Jackson loooooooves messing with the poor fans' hearts hah. He is going to milk this morbid cow for what it's worth. I doubt Fili or Kili will be just a passing mention in the movie.
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bborchar
Nargothrond
Jan 22 2013, 3:09pm
Post #14 of 23
(798 views)
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...honestly, in the books, it feels like Tolkien just tacked on the Bo5A for how quickly he glances over it. And Thorin's confession at the end just seems like a way to say "oh look, Bilbo was right all along, war and money are BAD". And it feels like he just threw in Fili and Kili to make war seem more bad.
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Rostron2
Mithlond
Jan 22 2013, 3:45pm
Post #15 of 23
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to interpretation how they finally meet their demise. There's basically a description that they were somewhere near Thorin when it happens, but that's about all we know. Heroic deaths are certainly an actor's dream, but how drawn out it will be is questionable. I don't see their deaths being like Boromir, although they could be wounded early, and be slowly beaten down, and finally unable to do much more than protect Thorin in some kind of last stand before the eagles show up. It would be effective if we last see them fighting desperately, and one of the other dwarves breaks it to Bilbo that they're gone. I doubt they will do it that way, it will probably show a more Haldir-like death, a slow slide to collapse for each of them. *shrugs*
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julia0925
Lindon
Jan 22 2013, 7:30pm
Post #16 of 23
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Several others have mentioned that in the books they die and it's like, ok, who really cares? Now, though, I'm in total denial--I don't want any of the Dwarves to die. PJ's made all thirteen of them real to me, especially Thorin and his nephews. I have a crazy hope that maybe PJ will change the ending (who really needs Dain anyway? Jerk didn't even want to help with the quest), but in my more sane moments I know that won't happen. Sigh. I can't believe I love dwarves so much.
-----
Lotr: You know it's been a bad day when even the elf is smudged.
TH: when the going gets tough, the tough call the eagles.
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Old Toby
Hithlum
Jan 23 2013, 5:36am
Post #17 of 23
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Personally the uglier they are, the less I care
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In fact, I really only noticed three dwarves in the entire film: Thorin, Kili and Fili in that order. Therefore, of course, they must die...or what's the use of even being attracted to them?  Just kidding!
But all seriousness aside, it certainly doesn't hurt that these guys are easy on the eyes; however, I'm sure this movie isn't just pandering to a female audience. I think their character development is going to be much more of a factor than their physical appearances when all is said and done (and dead). It's no surprise that the focus is on these three dwarves in particular, since they will be the ones to go, and the more attached we are to them, the harder will be their deaths. And the attachment will only come if there are aspects of their characters we admire/enjoy/feel sympathy with and that includes physical attractiveness. Granted, we all would like to think that we would care just as much about the other more comely dwarves, and perhaps if they were given the front-and-center attention Thorin, Kili and Fili are given, we would. But honestly, being human (no reference to Aiden's former role intended) and living with our social prejudices from the time we are born, it only stands to reason that we are drawn to those with some degree of physical beauty. (And I won't even mention Thorin's ever-so-lovely hair. Oops. There. I just did.)
Personally I love the way the dwarves are portrayed in this film. Each is a unique individual (Bifur possibly being more unique than the others) with their own strengths and weaknesses. The loss of any of them would be a tragedy. I think by the third film, we will look back wistfully at the light-heartedness that pervades this first film. I suspect PJ & crew are going to bring us to our knees.
Nice post BTW...good stuff to think about.
"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)
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swordwhale
Dor-Lomin
Jan 23 2013, 6:27am
Post #18 of 23
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But I would have been heartbroken if they had decided to kill off Balin or Dwalin or Oin etc instead/too whatever. I love pretty much all the dwarves because they're so different from one another and I love it. I don't want to see anyone die!
It's a terrible thought of someone having to be attractive for their death to bed sad and I bet for some it is too :/
That being said hell yes it's going to happen. The deaths in the book. I know people keep saying the actors were hired for their good looks (sure why not), but it can't be the only reason. Aidan in particular (I saw him on "Being Human" before the Hobbit) is an amazing actor. I hope they take advantage of that.
Ummmmm, Balin's Tomb ring a bell??? Ori's notes in the book the Fellowship is readingin Moria: something about Oin being taken by the Watcher in the Water...
Go outside and play...
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swordwhale
Dor-Lomin
Jan 23 2013, 6:34am
Post #19 of 23
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A few observations:
Aidan Turner can act, really. If Kili was just pretty, I would have to smack him upside the head with a battleaxe. He is (as I observed in another thread) rather like an enthusiastic Siberian husky pup who should be hooked to a sled for 1000 miles and has just bounded into Bag End and tracked mud all over and chewed things up and left dust bunnies the size of Smaug on the rug... H'es hilarious. He's skilled, he's hot and he has no clue he is. That makes him rather appealing.
Possibly the best discussion I have seen on these three (Thorin, Fili and Kili) is here. http://thorinoakenshield.net/2012/12/18/in-defense-of-fili-kili-and-thorin-oakenshield-an-appreciation-beyond-hot-dwarves/#comment-3788
If my tumblr feed is any clue, all of the Dwarves have a fan base, even among the teen and twenty-something women.
Here's hoping they all get their screen time!
Go outside and play...
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marillaraina
Nargothrond
Jan 23 2013, 8:25am
Post #20 of 23
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Firstly, just on the general topic of dwarves - I know I saw in a couple of interviews it being said that ALL the dwarves will have their heroic moment to shine in the films, so I'm not concerned that the "lesser dwarves" will be totally ignored. They may not have a lot of moments but apparently they will all have their moment to shine. Which is good, because I just love the whole gang of them. I really think they did a great job of creating a group the audience can care about, which isn't easy. It's easier to care about individual characters but it can be pretty hard to create a group affection and I think they managed to do that.
Even the dwarves I'm not particularly "interested" or don't know very well on an individual level, I still care about them as members of this wonderfully varied group.
But yeah as for looks, I'm sure it doesn't hurt and I certainly will not complain about the "hot dwarves", I think it's possible that if all the dwarves had looked "dwarfy" like they did in LOTR maybe it would have been harder to get that sort of feeling. I think it's possible that subconsciously, even if someone isn't particularly interested in one of the more attractive dwarves as characters or for their looks, they still may help create more of a point of attachment for the group.
And I have to agree, I think it may sell the "goodlooking" dwarves short to overly focus on it, like it's a character trait in and of itself, as well as selling short the actors. I've seen Richard Armitage and Aidan Turner in particular in other things and feel they are both genuinely very very good actors, good looking or not. And to be honest, at least they aren't "cookie cutter" good looking, they aren't like Ken dolls. They are actually both somewhat unusual looking.
He's hilarious. He's skilled, he's hot and he has no clue he is. That makes him rather appealing.
You know that's pretty much the perfect description for Kili. :) He was very natural, and at least part of that is thanks to Turner's acting.
On side, unconnected note, actually I just saw an article today where some college professor was talking about the language of Tumblr and the fannish uses of...and Kili was actually mentioned up there with the Big Three, Hiddleston, Cumberbatch and Harry Styles. We've made the big time(thank god Aidan Turner doesn't do Twitter, I watched what happened with Hiddleston from a distance and he's very good natured about it and handles it well but some insane people out there:))
I really do wonder why it was so important to Tolkien that the Dain become the king, I mean would it have been so bad to have Kili(as he was the oldest in the book, though the later date changed it to Fili, which kind of shows how little he considered them, he couldn't even remember which one he made the oldest) become King under the Mountain instead of Dain?
(This post was edited by marillaraina on Jan 23 2013, 8:33am)
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CathrineB
Nargothrond
Jan 23 2013, 9:55am
Post #21 of 23
(633 views)
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I was merely stating that I would be equally sad if other dwarves died and not only the "hotties"
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swordwhale
Dor-Lomin
Jan 24 2013, 6:07am
Post #22 of 23
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and then there are those of us who remember...
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I was merely stating that I would be equally sad if other dwarves died and not only the "hotties"
...that it is Ori, Oin and Balin who end up in Moria....
OK, in FOTR, they were just names...
now I have faces and character to go with them...
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!
Go outside and play...
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The Red Avenger
Ossiriand
Jan 28 2013, 5:31pm
Post #23 of 23
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Ori in the Fellowship of the Ring.
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Slightly amusing from Adam Brown who plays Ori, was his Twitter feed during a UK TV showing of Fellowship over Christmas.
He said "I'm on TV at the moment, Admittedly a bit thinner." It was then I realised that the dwarf skeleton that Gandalf takes the Book of Mazarbul from is supposed to be Ori. Which would make sense as the last words in the book are his as well as the "They are Coming" scrawled in elvish. He must have died with the book in his hands.
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more spoilers...
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