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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Thoughts on the future of Fili and Kili

Kirly
Lorien


Jan 27 2013, 5:51pm

Post #1 of 13 (1043 views)
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Thoughts on the future of Fili and Kili Can't Post

I posted this in Ro's moments thread yesterday but since my point is potential foreshadowing, maybe folks weren't interested there (or at all! i'll find out now! LOL) Anyway, here it is again by itself and i wonder what other folks think about it.


I noticed something today, in my 6th viewing, which I hadn't before...the look on Kili's face when the Dwarves arrive in Rivendell. When Lindir comes down the stairs, Kili has a look of wonder and awe on his face - perhaps even fascination. Even when they are encircled by the Elves on horseback, while he has a look of a bit of fear and concern, there is still that look of wonder. Could this be a foreshadowing of his future friendship with Tauriel (sp?)? That's a possible moment, i think.

<snip>

When the wargs attack while Radagast is with Gandalf and the Dwarves, notice the first two go straight for Thorin? Thorin kills the first one, and Kili shoots the second one coming from behind Thorin. This made me notice that it sometimes seems as if Kili believes it's his job to personally protect Thorin. Again, possible foreshadowing of the end of the story. Note that when Gandalf leads them to the hidden path, Kili and Fili are the last to get inside before Thorin so maybe it's foreshadowing for the future of both Fili and Kili.


My avatar photo is Lake Tekapo in New Zealand's South Island. Taken by me in 2004 on a Red Carpet Tours LOTR Movie Location Tour. 'Twas the Vacation of a Lifetime!

pictures taken while on the tour are here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/Kirly7/LOTRNewZealandTour#


florian
The Shire

Jan 27 2013, 8:21pm

Post #2 of 13 (477 views)
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Could be... [In reply to] Can't Post

It could also be PJ's way of driving home the family loyalty between Thorin and his nephews. Or it could be that Fili and Kili are so young and exuberant that they get carried away by the moment and have to be told when to run for the hills.Smile


ETA: The love between the three of them, while not in-your-face, is clearly very strong and it will be hard to watch when the end finally comes for them. I personally hope that Thorin never knows that his sister-sons have died. I don't think I could bear to watch his grief.


(This post was edited by florian on Jan 27 2013, 8:26pm)


Kirly
Lorien


Jan 27 2013, 8:44pm

Post #3 of 13 (450 views)
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the loyalty of Dwarves... [In reply to] Can't Post

oh, yes, i didn't mean to discount the family loyalty or the loyalty of Dwarves in general. I was just musing.

regarding the grief in the end of the story... imagine the grief of Balin and Dwalin, for example, at the loss of all three. oh my. i think i'm going to have to wait for a midweek midnight showing for this one so no one else is in the theatre hearing/seeing me blubber over fictional characters.

My avatar photo is Lake Tekapo in New Zealand's South Island. Taken by me in 2004 on a Red Carpet Tours LOTR Movie Location Tour. 'Twas the Vacation of a Lifetime!

pictures taken while on the tour are here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/Kirly7/LOTRNewZealandTour#


florian
The Shire

Jan 27 2013, 8:46pm

Post #4 of 13 (431 views)
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Know what you mean [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll be taking a box of Kleenexes to the theater with me.


The Prancing Pony
Rivendell

Jan 27 2013, 8:57pm

Post #5 of 13 (423 views)
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Don't worry, [In reply to] Can't Post

you will not be the only one. I don't think a lot of those people who haven't read the book really expect that not only one, but all three of them will die.
A friend of mine really likes Kili. And when we left the cinema she asked me if he will survive everything (she obviously hasn't read the books). Well, I was at first a little unsure whether to break the hard truth to her now and thus giving her some time to get used to it, or let her be shocked at the end of TABA. I told her, but she would not really believe it and still hopes they will change it.
And though I am looking forward to how they will handle these deaths on screen, I'm also dreading the moment. While it's one thing to have Boromir die at the end of FOTR, it is quite another to have three people you've got used to through three films dying so tragically.
I will definitely bring my pocket-handkerchief.

"If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world."


CathrineB
Rohan


Jan 27 2013, 9:45pm

Post #6 of 13 (429 views)
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Ugh [In reply to] Can't Post

It's going to be terribly hard to watch.

I also wonder if they are going to do more with Kili being so protective over Bilbo. Maybe we'll see more of it? Maybe Kili will protect Bilbo at some point in the battle too? It was a very sweet addition to the character and also leads to bonding which will only make the loss of the three of them harder. Poor Bilbo too. His first adventure and he'll loose three friends?


(This post was edited by CathrineB on Jan 27 2013, 9:46pm)


Kimtc
Rohan


Jan 27 2013, 9:51pm

Post #7 of 13 (387 views)
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My friend was the same way! [In reply to] Can't Post

She also couldn't believe they cut off Ed Stark's head. Needs to read more.


In Reply To
you will not be the only one. I don't think a lot of those people who haven't read the book really expect that not only one, but all three of them will die.
A friend of mine really likes Kili. And when we left the cinema she asked me if he will survive everything (she obviously hasn't read the books). Well, I was at first a little unsure whether to break the hard truth to her now and thus giving her some time to get used to it, or let her be shocked at the end of TABA. I told her, but she would not really believe it and still hopes they will change it.
And though I am looking forward to how they will handle these deaths on screen, I'm also dreading the moment. While it's one thing to have Boromir die at the end of FOTR, it is quite another to have three people you've got used to through three films dying so tragically.
I will definitely bring my pocket-handkerchief.



Kirly
Lorien


Jan 27 2013, 10:38pm

Post #8 of 13 (398 views)
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Protectiveness of the two.... [In reply to] Can't Post

could be a real problem here for our young Dwarves if they become loyal to and protective of Bilbo. They'll feel terrible when/if Thorin tries to throw Bilbo out. There is so much that is tragic with Thorin, Fili, and Kili.

My avatar photo is Lake Tekapo in New Zealand's South Island. Taken by me in 2004 on a Red Carpet Tours LOTR Movie Location Tour. 'Twas the Vacation of a Lifetime!

pictures taken while on the tour are here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/Kirly7/LOTRNewZealandTour#


marillaraina
Rohan

Jan 27 2013, 11:28pm

Post #9 of 13 (367 views)
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Yeah [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
It's going to be terribly hard to watch.

I also wonder if they are going to do more with Kili being so protective over Bilbo. Maybe we'll see more of it? Maybe Kili will protect Bilbo at some point in the battle too? It was a very sweet addition to the character and also leads to bonding which will only make the loss of the three of them harder. Poor Bilbo too. His first adventure and he'll loose three friends?


Yeah I wonder about that too. It was such a nice addition to the character and unexpected. It would be easy to take the character, being the youngest(well 2nd youngest whatever) and make him not really pay attention in that way, but I thought he was clearly played with a protective streak, which was a really nice surprise. And what little there was in the way of his relationship with Bilbo was quite nice, I hope they expand upon a little in the upcoming films.

In one interview, one of the words Turner used when asked to describe Kili was "open minded", so I wonder if his quick acceptance of Bilbo is an example of that, plus with the elves - it could be what leads to some conflict with Thorin once Thorin's starts to get a bit...how he gets.


Rostron2
Gondor


Jan 28 2013, 4:34pm

Post #10 of 13 (246 views)
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Good thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post

I just can't dissect those giant posts. Thanks for re-posting Ro's good analysis in smaller chunks.

I think it's character reinforcement, and this is where actors actually can contribute. 'Wouldn't it make sense if my character...?'

Now they obviously aren't filming in sequence, but discussions between actor/director are common. These are used to make it clear motivations from one scene to the next. Discussion around the character's ultimate fate no doubt set up some of these looks and nuances of character. It's good film-making to have those kinds of bookmarks for the audience.


swordwhale
Tol Eressea


Jan 28 2013, 9:16pm

Post #11 of 13 (216 views)
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the bros Oakenshield [In reply to] Can't Post

When the Lonely Mountain is besieged, it is Bombur, Fili and Kili who (privately) disagree with Thorin's actions...

(bookverse): "So grim had Thorin become, that even if they wished, the others would not have dared to find fault with him; but indeed, most of them seemed to share his mind --- except perhaps old fat Bombur and Fili and Kili."

"In one interview, one of the words Turner used when asked to describe Kili was "open minded", so I wonder if his quick acceptance of Bilbo is an example of that, plus with the elves - it could be what leads to some conflict with Thorin once Thorin's starts to get a bit...how he gets. "

This makes sense for a young person of any race... this is why Legolas, not Glorfindel goes with the Fellowship... flexibility and open-mindedness.

There has already been a plethora of fanart (both fun and serious) based on the "Heirs of Durin" (and the knowledge of their eventual demise). Much of the art deals with their life as kids or young Dwarves with Uncle Thorin and some of the others (like Balin and Dwalin). I collected some of it here:
http://pinterest.com/swordwhale/oakenshields-a-celebration-of-fictional-life/

There's also a swell little website called Heirs of Durin which looks deeper into their history. The articles are quite intelligent and far transcend fangirl sqeeing!

http://thorinoakenshield.net/2012/12/18/in-defense-of-fili-kili-and-thorin-oakenshield-an-appreciation-beyond-hot-dwarves/#comment-3788

Go outside and play...


Kirly
Lorien


Jan 29 2013, 1:33am

Post #12 of 13 (196 views)
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you're welcome and thanks but... [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Thanks for re-posting Ro's good analysis in smaller chunks.


those were my own thoughts that i posted in a response to Ro that got lost. I reposted because I wanted to see what other people thought/if they had any interest.

My avatar photo is Lake Tekapo in New Zealand's South Island. Taken by me in 2004 on a Red Carpet Tours LOTR Movie Location Tour. 'Twas the Vacation of a Lifetime!

pictures taken while on the tour are here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/Kirly7/LOTRNewZealandTour#


Eolin of Rohan
The Shire

Feb 16 2013, 5:13am

Post #13 of 13 (144 views)
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kili, fili, and thorin death scene [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, the death scene for all three will be really hard to watch. Whatever PJ and team do I hope that they don't make it too over dramatic--Or that they are killed by the "White Ork". That would be hard--sad because then it would somewhat feel like he was succeeding in wiping out the line of Durin, and frustrating because he doesn't exist in the hobbit book but is for some reason a main (ish) character in the movie...

 
 

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