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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Important reveal from interviews about DOS? SPOILER
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nhui06
Rivendell

Jan 23 2013, 6:14pm

Post #1 of 31 (1862 views)
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Important reveal from interviews about DOS? SPOILER Can't Post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=O1eAWskbUrs

What stood out to me was the actor who played Bofur mentioned how he loved Lake-town and how it turns into a war zone (desolation, despair, and ambers). Also note how Andy Serkis mentioned how he loved the Lake-town sequences and the terrifying actions. Does this pretty much give away that Lake-Town's attack by Smaug will be in the film (probably a main piece too), so probably Smaug's death will be in the conclusion of DOS.


Rostron2
Gondor


Jan 23 2013, 6:21pm

Post #2 of 31 (937 views)
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Hmmm [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, Andy is speaking from a Second Unit Director's perspective. Certainly Smaug is in the second film. I wonder about his death though...I'm trying to work this out in my head. They could very well leave it with the whole town burning to the water and Smaug triumphant, and there's that thrush again coming back to the mountain. End film 2...Start of 3, Thrush delivers the message of what happened -- we go back to Laketown action scenes (a' la Gandalf and the Balrog) only this time, we see the rest of it, and the fall of Smaug. Or something like the ravens and birds gathering like the movie prophecy says...


arithmancer
Grey Havens

Jan 23 2013, 6:21pm

Post #3 of 31 (912 views)
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Half-agree... ;-) [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, it seems likely from what you posted that Smaug's attack on Laketown will occur in DoS. It does not follow that Smaug's death will too. An alternative would be to leave that hanging. As several posters on earlier threads have pointed out, ending DoS with the death of Smaug would tend to leave many viewers (those who are not book-readers) to wonder why on Earth they need to wait another 6 months to see another "Hobbit" movie...


nhui06
Rivendell

Jan 23 2013, 6:47pm

Post #4 of 31 (852 views)
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Possible [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah Smaug's death was my idea, but my rationale is that PJ doesn't really leave cliffhangers in immediate scenes. For example, FOTR ended with a battle and Bormir dying. Battle ends, then cliffhanger is the fellowship going on their separate ways. TTT ended with battles of Helms Deep, and cliff hanger was Gollum leading Frodo and Sa away (after they are freed by Farmir). AUJ ended with battle between Thorin and Azog, but then are rescued by the Eagles.

In all 3 examples, the immediate 'battle' scene is settled first before the film ends. As such, I can see Smaugs death as the conclusion of the battle of LakeTown. They can then set up the cliff hanger so that the men of Lake-town call for revenge against the Dwarves and plot to take Erebor.


Arandir
Gondor


Jan 23 2013, 8:01pm

Post #5 of 31 (804 views)
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I think James Nesbitt is talking about Dale not Lake Town ... [In reply to] Can't Post

However, Andy Serkis' comments are enticing! Smile

'The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey' Review


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Jan 23 2013, 8:02pm

Post #6 of 31 (825 views)
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i think it will be *spoilers* [In reply to] Can't Post

smaug's death and the dol-guldur battle will both conclude DOS.


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty, oh will you please take me home!!

(This post was edited by entmaiden on Jan 23 2013, 9:12pm)


The Mitch King
Rohan


Jan 23 2013, 8:17pm

Post #7 of 31 (740 views)
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Hmmmm [In reply to] Can't Post

Can they fit DG and Laketown battle in one film?


nhui06
Rivendell

Jan 23 2013, 8:21pm

Post #8 of 31 (742 views)
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Maybe... [In reply to] Can't Post

I am still on the thinking that DOS will end with the Smaug attack on Lake Town, while the Dol Guldur battle will open TABA. It is the last movie that can use a bit more meat, so that is why I feel they will conclude the Necromencer storyline there (also the last film is closer towards the LOTR series). My rough guess will be (Spoiler alert for those who have not read the book):



DOS:
- Beorn's house and Gandalf's departure
- Mirkwood spiders (I think this will be a smaller scene, since we have already seen spiders in LOTR. I will not be surprised if this part of the story is completely different from the book, with the the Wood Elves story extended).
- Thrandruil and the Wood Elves (interested in seeing how this plays out).
- Gandalf investigates Dol Guldur but eventually gets captured by the Orcs.
- Escape with barrels and arrival to Lake Town.
- Bilbo goes into Erebor and meets Smaug
- Smaug leaves Erebor to attack Lake Town
- Bard kills Smaug, men declare revenge on Dwarves.

TABA:
- Elves realize Gandalf is in trouble and gets ready to attack Dol - Guldur. Galandriel saves Gandalf. Elves cannot find signs of the Necromencer (his spirit flees from Mirkwood).
- Dwarves claim their treasure. Men and Elves arrive at Erebor to seek compensation. Dwarves refuse and each side gets ready for battle.
- Bilbo steals Arkenstone and all the drama that ensues.
- Gandalf appears and warns everyone of the incoming orcs
- Battle of the Five Armies
- Resolve issues between races, journey home for Biblo
- Some additional tie-in scenes to LOTR, including shot of the Eye of Mordor opening.


nhui06
Rivendell

Jan 23 2013, 8:26pm

Post #9 of 31 (719 views)
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Yes I think you are right [In reply to] Can't Post

Watched it again and yeah he mentioned Dale, not Lake town. Andy mentioned Lake Town (was so secretive about it), and did mention epic action, terrifying action, so this leads me more to believe there will be big scenes at Laketown with Smaug


Arandir
Gondor


Jan 23 2013, 8:26pm

Post #10 of 31 (821 views)
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Empire's December issue stated that [In reply to] Can't Post

we'll be seeing Smaug in both Films 2 and 3, so I guess unless PJ does some extensive editing changes - it's bound to remain that way

'The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey' Review

(This post was edited by Arandir on Jan 23 2013, 8:27pm)


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Jan 23 2013, 8:57pm

Post #11 of 31 (714 views)
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Maybe not quite the way you see it... [In reply to] Can't Post

Gandalf may be captured when he investigates Dol Guldur, but I think that Radagast or Elrond (probably Raddy) will free him before the end of DoS with the confirmation that Saruman demands of Sauron's return.

The Master of Esgaroth (at least in the book) does shift the blame for Smaug's attack onto Thorin and Company. However, most assume that the dwarves are already dead and are thinking more of the treasure than of revenge.

Furnished with proof that the Necromancer is Sauron returned, the White Council attacks Dol Guldur early in TaBA (or simultaneously with Smaug's attack on Lake-town?). This won't be as big as the Battle of the Five Armies, but Sauron won't simply flee at the Council's first appearance either.

I see the rest of TaBA proceeding pretty much the same. The auction of Bag End will be in the Extended Edition if it doesn't make it into the theatrical cut.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


jtarkey
Rohan


Jan 23 2013, 9:24pm

Post #12 of 31 (687 views)
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Man, at this point... [In reply to] Can't Post

They are really going to have to give Bilbo something to do in TABA. This has been worrying me ever since the 3 film split.

In LOTR, Frodo's goal is very clear. Bilbo's...not so much. In 2 films, his role would have been much more balanced, but TABA is going to be very tricky in this aspect.

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"


arithmancer
Grey Havens

Jan 23 2013, 9:38pm

Post #13 of 31 (666 views)
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If Smaug [In reply to] Can't Post

dies in Movie 3, Bilbo could be up to the following in Movie 3:

1) Communicating the "weak spot's" existence to Bard.
2) Giving the Arkenstone to the Elves/Men after the death of Smaug.
3) Confrontation with Thorin.
4) Bilbo might see more of the battle than he does in the book.
5) Farewells with living and dead comrades.
6) Return home.

If PJ does kill Smaug off in Movie 2 I feel pretty confident I will, in retrospect, like it. He's not failed me in 4 movies so I trust him. But it feels weak/wrong to me, I'm just not seeing how the aftermath in Movie 2 will be compelling enough to lead into the next movie, but possibly there are ways the new material and characters, and expansion of book characters, among the Elves and Laketown could lend themselves to this. I see the argument that he has not used such a big cliffhanger in the past, but I don't see this as a pattern he necessarily has to maintain.


Grant
The Shire

Jan 23 2013, 10:14pm

Post #14 of 31 (654 views)
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Smaug [In reply to] Can't Post

If he dies in film 2 I suspect the cliffhanger with be Sauron revealing himself to Gandalf in Dol Guldor.

I can't think of anything else that would make a decent big action set piece in the movie.


Rostron2
Gondor


Jan 23 2013, 10:38pm

Post #15 of 31 (630 views)
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Interesting [In reply to] Can't Post

This more of what I believe will happen...the action with the dragon will be split, although certainly there will be some Dol Guldur activity in #3 before Gandalf returns in time for the big confrontation.

The Bo5A, while it's likely to be a centerpiece of why the allies bury the hatchet against the goblins, I can't see the battle being more than 30-minutes to 45 minutes with lead-in, and mop up. That only leaves a lot of exposition if you kill off the dragon completely in film 2. PJ isn't into long Jane Austen conversations amongst the dwarves, elves and men of the lake. He'll need more action.

This was why Shelob got moved into film 3, to give Frodo and Sam something to do other than walk around Mordor, and only have the siege be a giant chunk of the film.


sycorax82
Rohan

Jan 24 2013, 12:28am

Post #16 of 31 (614 views)
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Like the idea of the Eye of Sauron opening being the last shot of the trilogy [In reply to] Can't Post

Something I'm wondering if they will address is the reason for the White Council sitting back and doing nothing for 60 years while Sauron regains his strength in Mordor.

Saruman will be against further action, and indeed I hope we see him royally p*ssed at Gandalf and Galadriel for getting involved, but why would Galadriel and Elrond sit back and do nothing after ousting Sauron from Dol Guldur? Maybe they will say it's not the Elves' fight...that it's time for the world of Men etc.


Kimtc
Rohan

Jan 24 2013, 1:00am

Post #17 of 31 (583 views)
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Time must be different for this crew. [In reply to] Can't Post

I guess for us the idea of not doing anything about Sauron and Mordor for 60 years seems strange. But in the books (much more so than the movies, which are more time compressed) that sort of time lag would be nothing. These are creatures that live a long time, and some forever, so it could be seen as relatively short.

But I am interested in the issue of Gandalf and the One Ring; you could argue that the White Council maybe thought they couldn't do much because they didn't have a good way to assail Mordor. But Gandalf knows about Bilbo's ring, and doesn't bother to try to find out if it is "the" ring until the party. Does anyone know why he didn't do his research earlier and throw it on a fire years before?




Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


Jan 24 2013, 2:44am

Post #18 of 31 (538 views)
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how will they be able to fit in everything, period/full stop. [In reply to] Can't Post

Think about it:
Beorn.
Mirkwood + Spiders (<- My guess is that they'll have to rush everything in mirkwood considerably! PJ said in this interview that the Barrels sequence is 'relatively early on' !!!)
Elven Halls with some Tauriel stuff.
Barrels.
Laketown with Master and Bard stuff.
Hike to Erebor, including going through Dale.
Encountering Smaug and other stuff besides (lots of that)
Smaug blasting off and blasting Lake Town.
Possibly setting up some stuff for the next film too.

meanwhile: Gandalf gallivanting off... to Dol Guldur? Possible Galadriel intervention.. no mention of Elrond nor Saruman so far in this though. BIG -?- here.
Bard and Lake town are likely to be set up before we even meet them.
Legolas does stuff with Bard, as the pic-reveal shows.

Lots of timey-wimey issues to think of too. Ie.) Thorin and company waiting for news of Smaug's death etc.

Overall basically.. there's SO much to be crammed into this film (Haha, hopefully it'll include 'cram' too Tongue)
How on middle-earth will it be possible is my question.. .... ... this made more crazy by the fact that Phillipa Boyens stated in an interview that she expected DOS to be probably --shorter-- than AUJ!!..
craziness.

--I'm a victim of Bifurcation--
__________________________________________

Join us over at Barliman's chat all day, any day!
__________________________________________


The Mitch King
Rohan


Jan 24 2013, 4:41am

Post #19 of 31 (500 views)
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Movie length [In reply to] Can't Post

if DOS is shorter I expect a nice, longgggggg TABA!


Súlimë
Rivendell


Jan 24 2013, 4:54am

Post #20 of 31 (495 views)
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Bilbo's role [In reply to] Can't Post

... will be much expanded. I think you are right with him being the one to communicate Smaug's weak spot to Bard. I just can't see a thrush working here. At the very least, Bilbo will be working WITH the thrush to get the information across to Bard.

But I don't think Smaug should be killed in DOS. You're spot on about how the aftermath of Smaug's death will not be compelling enough for another movie for the general audience. After all, they set out to kill the dragon -- you just can't suddenly reveal that the 'climax' of the trilogy is something else. So I think Sauron's army will be the main villain in TABA and Smaug might have something to do with Sauron as well.


Hanzkaz
Rohan

Jan 24 2013, 7:19am

Post #21 of 31 (472 views)
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Going by the titles - [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
But I don't think Smaug should be killed in DOS. You're spot on about how the aftermath of Smaug's death will not be compelling enough for another movie for the general audience.


- of the Trilogy, I think it may turn out approximately like this -

'An Unexpected Journey' - The beginning of 'the Quest' and the adventures before the arrival at the Mountain.

'The Desolation of Smaug' - The events involving the Dragon himself.

'There and Back Again' - The events in the aftermath of 'the Quest', the Battle of Five Armies and the return home.TBO5A is going to have to be something special, if it's to rival old Smaug. I think the Necromancer may also (hopefully only indirectly) be somehow involved.

___________________________________________________


From the makers of 'The Lord of the Rings' comes the sequel to Peter Jackson's Hobbit Trilogy -
'The War in the North, Part I : The Sword in the Tomb'.



Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


Jan 24 2013, 1:21pm

Post #22 of 31 (412 views)
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Indeed!!: [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
TBO5A is going to have to be something special, if it's to rival old Smaug.



--I'm a victim of Bifurcation--
__________________________________________

Join us over at Barliman's chat all day, any day!
__________________________________________


nhui06
Rivendell

Jan 24 2013, 1:53pm

Post #23 of 31 (416 views)
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Agreed with shorter Mirkwood [In reply to] Can't Post

I honestly think the spider scene is going to be very short. For one, the spider arc in the book was when Bilbo finally showed his courage and stepped up to save the dwarves, but we already got that scene at the end of AUJ. Plus we already say them attack Radagast. Spiders will probably be there to introduce the Elves (and hero Legolas), who can and save/capture the dwarves.


nhui06
Rivendell

Jan 24 2013, 2:01pm

Post #24 of 31 (395 views)
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It all depends on the set up. [In reply to] Can't Post

I think Smaug has to die to give the 2nd movie a proper ending. Remember in TTT they essentially concluded Sauraman's story arc after the battle of Helms Deep. Either the Necromencer will be resolved in DOS (less likely since they want to tie the Hobbit more into LOTR, so Necromencer will probably be still in the last one, or Smaug will have to die.

It all depends on how PJ sets up the BO5A, not to mention the Necromencer story. I have a feeling the last third of DOS will be about Smaug and his death. How the audience will be lured into the third one is: Gandalfs capture in Dol Guldur AND the Men and Elves closing in on Erebor.


Rostron2
Gondor


Jan 24 2013, 5:51pm

Post #25 of 31 (377 views)
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This makes sense [In reply to] Can't Post

Essentially this says that the dwarves don't find out about Smaug's death until film 3, and we don't see a flashback of that actual black arrow event until film 3. We only see Smaug trashing Lake Town.

I think that works best. Dragons are fascinating to any movie audience. The more dragon the better. You also might have to remember that while we are well informed on the spoiler of what happens to him, not everyone is.

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