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Agreed

CuriousG
Valinor


Jan 23 2013, 5:53pm


Views: 183
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Agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for posting this, Ranger. I was nodding in agreement with Lost Istari's points about Ungoliant and Goldberry--extending your reasoning to include them makes the case all the more convincing. Plus it's esthetically appealing to think that there is an embodiment of the Great Music that walks in Middle-earth.

The only hiccup I have with any theory is that I believe Tolkien entertained his children with Tom Bombadil stories based on a doll with that colored clothing, and he seems to have liked the character enough to insert him in his epic. I think it would be similar if I liked some character, maybe Darth Vader, and I invented a non-Star Wars world, let's say the Smurfs, and just because I like Vader so much, I put him in that world despite him not belonging. He would forever be unaccounted for, but if I'm the author, I can do what I want.

I think Goldberry might not quite fit into the world either. How can she be River Woman's daughter if the Valar/Maiar don't have children? (Aside from Melian and Thingol.) My memory is bad, but isn't there a song in The Road Goes Ever On where Bombadil woos Goldberry away from her mother with the deal that Goldberry can go back to visit? Who is River Woman? I could explain Old Man Willow as a Huorn, but River Woman doesn't seem to fit any scheme herself. If she's the spirit of the Brandywine, do other rivers have a spirit too? Maybe they do, and we never hear about them. And maybe they are in some way under the umbrella of the Valar's rule.

But if we go back to my Darth Vader idea of a clumsy, inconsistent insertion for the sake of author amusement, then Goldberry and River Woman could be like adding Yoda and Obi Wan to the Smurf world too.

Just thoughts. Since Tolkien never said anything definitive himself, I'm not sure that we can decide ourselves. But I really like the idea of Bombadil as the incarnation of the Great Music, and Ungoliant as the Discord, and Goldberry as the spirit of the Music that's retained in water, and hence Tom's attraction/infatuation with her.

Subject User Time
Tom Bombadil As the Spirit of the Music of the Ainur rangerfromthenorth Send a private message to rangerfromthenorth Jan 17 2013, 4:27pm
    Thanks for this! Radagast-Aiwendil Send a private message to Radagast-Aiwendil Jan 17 2013, 8:57pm
    Great Theory Lost_istari Send a private message to Lost_istari Jan 18 2013, 7:56pm
        Thank you much rangerfromthenorth Send a private message to rangerfromthenorth Jan 22 2013, 2:07pm
        Agreed CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 23 2013, 5:53pm
            A quick thought on children of Ainur Lost_istari Send a private message to Lost_istari Jan 24 2013, 6:46am
    Excellent theory! FlyingSerkis Send a private message to FlyingSerkis Jan 23 2013, 9:13pm
        Thank You rangerfromthenorth Send a private message to rangerfromthenorth Jan 23 2013, 9:33pm
    Regarding Bombadil's boundedness Plurmo Send a private message to Plurmo Jan 28 2013, 5:59am
    I Know Tolkien Forever Send a private message to Tolkien Forever Jan 30 2013, 8:38pm
    "None has yet defined him, for Tom is an enigma" squire Send a private message to squire Jan 31 2013, 1:27am
        Great poem/ CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 31 2013, 1:34am
        Great Poem Indeed rangerfromthenorth Send a private message to rangerfromthenorth Jan 31 2013, 2:29am
            It is certainly a great topic to debate squire Send a private message to squire Feb 1 2013, 3:14am
                a "most" dangerous discussion rangerfromthenorth Send a private message to rangerfromthenorth Feb 1 2013, 3:32pm
                    ATB was published after LOTR. N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Feb 1 2013, 5:55pm
                        yes yes it was rangerfromthenorth Send a private message to rangerfromthenorth Feb 1 2013, 6:14pm
                        thats where the confusion came from rangerfromthenorth Send a private message to rangerfromthenorth Feb 1 2013, 6:22pm
                            Tolkien did alter the poem for its 1962 re-publication. N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Feb 1 2013, 7:51pm
                    Very nicely stated squire Send a private message to squire Feb 1 2013, 8:38pm
    This may interest you. N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Feb 1 2013, 5:46am

 
 
 

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