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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Little Details (aka, Ro's been thinking again)
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Roheryn
Grey Havens

Jan 23 2013, 10:41am

Post #1 of 69 (1540 views)
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The Little Details (aka, Ro's been thinking again) Can't Post

All right, I figure weíre not ready yet for another thread about Thorin and his hair (though if Iím wrong, by all means please hijack this thread and Iíll be delighted). So hereís what Iím musing on tonight: Iíve read too many complaints about how PJ & co didnít follow the book and I havenít yet seen much attention paid to the little details where PJ *did* follow the book wonderfully closely.

So, Iíve got three questions for you:

1. Have you gone back to re-read The Hobbit since you first saw the movie? If so, has your appreciation of the book changed at all?
2. Have you been particularly struck by any little details in the book (or other source material) that you think were nicely depicted in the movie?

(Please note well that Iím not saying following or not following the book is good or bad or otherwise! And Iím not starting this thread to get into yet another debate about the merits of such!)

My answers:

1. I havenít re-read the whole thing yet, but have been reading through parts of it, and am reading it from the beginning with my two young boys (for the second time Ė at their request; we finished reading it the first time about two months before AUJ was released). At the moment, as I read the book, I imagine all the characters in the book as theyíre portrayed in the movie; and I find the reading is that much richer an experience. (Thank you, PJ.) I actually care about these Dwarves now, and especially about Thorin.
2. Yes, naturally, or I wouldnít have asked this! Three in particular Iíve noticed: in the book, Bilbo falls asleep listening to Thorin humming ďFar over the Misty Mountains coldÖĒ Ė exact same lyrics as the first stanza of the song in the movie (no stanza in the poem a few pages earlier has the exact same wording). Note that Thorin is *humming*, just as all the Dwarves do in the movie before Thorin starts singing. I wondered if that line about humming was the inspiration for how the song was done in the movie. Neat.
Also, in a couple of different places, Oin and Gloin are identified as particularly good at starting fires. It is they whom Thorin tells to get a fire going just before the troll scene, and Oin (if I remember right) who wants to start one in the cave just before they fall into Goblin-town.
Finally, when rescued by Eagles in the book, Bilbo clings to Doriís legs as Dori is carried off by an Eagle; in the movie, Dori still has a dangler but this time itís Ori.

Thoughts, musings, observations, answers, funny noises, or hijackings (but only if theyíre related to Thorin) welcome!


macfalk
Valinor


Jan 23 2013, 10:49am

Post #2 of 69 (787 views)
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Yeah [In reply to] Can't Post

2. Have you been particularly struck by any little details in the book (or other source material) that you think were nicely depicted in the movie?

Definately. One of my favourite scenes in the movie is Gandalf's "pep-talk" with Bilbo of how he's also a Took and the invention of golf. The movie did that even better than the book!




The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


Alcarcalime
Tol Eressea


Jan 23 2013, 11:26am

Post #3 of 69 (792 views)
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Thorin, sigh! [In reply to] Can't Post

I am not one for drooling over movie characters, but I have decided to make an exception in Thorin's case. I agreed with Balin completely when he said *there was one whom he could follow*.

O.K. - drool over.

I haven't reread the Hobbit since I saw the movie. OhioHobbit is reading it just now and he told me last night that I should reread it to get over my sorrow that the movie has left our theaters. He just told me that he thinks that the line whicih is better in the movie than in the book is when Gandalf says at the beginning that he is Gandalf and Gandalf is me. He thought it sounded awkward in the book, but that Ian McKellen did it so perfectly.

As soon as the book is available, I am going to reread it. I am sure that all the dwarves will look like their movie counterparts since LOTR has already undergone that transformation.




Angharad73
Rohan

Jan 23 2013, 12:06pm

Post #4 of 69 (745 views)
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It's in the details and the imagination [In reply to] Can't Post

When I first saw the movie, I was actually quite pleasantly surprised by how closely the first meeting between Bilbo and Gandalf followes the book - or at least how I imagined the whole scene when reading the book. It's not so much that PJ followed the book by the letter but that he caught the spirit of the scene.

The mention of Golf also made me giggle because I remembered that so well from the book.

I also noticed the bridge in Rivendell. It's described in the book as just wide enough for a pony to cross and without a parapet. I always thought that I wouldn't want to cross that kind of bridge (this sort of thing makes me nervous). In the movie, the bridge looked just as scary to me as I imagined it.

Now, I'm always happy to talk about Thorin, be it his hair or other parts... Tongue


macfalk
Valinor


Jan 23 2013, 12:19pm

Post #5 of 69 (758 views)
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Thorin humming in his sleep [In reply to] Can't Post

Interesting - when I re-read The Hobbit again after seeing the movie, I noticed this as well. Somehow in my previous re-readings it just went past my head but now after the movie, this little detail had a great impact on me. It's just like the Misty Mountains song in the movie.



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


Eowyn3
Rivendell

Jan 23 2013, 1:19pm

Post #6 of 69 (719 views)
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The Hobbit book and Thorin [In reply to] Can't Post

I re-read the book just a couple days before the release of the movie and I'm sure it made the movie a lot more enjoyable. At the beginning of the movie, when we have the good morning scene, I just couldn't stop smiling. It was even better than I had pictured reading the book. I felt like Martin Freeman was so great as Bilbo that it was like Bilbo stepped right out of the book.
About Thorin and the other dwarves, I love Richard Armitage playing Thorin. It makes me like the character more than I ever did reading the book. I love him singing The Lonely Mountain song. It's so beautiful. And by the way, I love his hair!
In the end I think PJ was able to bring out the personality of the dwarves in a fantastic way, and I'm now able to remember all their names.
Glad the movies till playing in my town. I'm going to watch it today again for the 6th time!


bborchar
Rohan


Jan 23 2013, 2:40pm

Post #7 of 69 (684 views)
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I'm always up for another Thorin thread, lol... [In reply to] Can't Post

...he's the first movie character that I've really liked in a very long time. His hair is pretty awesome, too. Kinda wish my hair looked like that.

1. I have reread it. I reread it after the first viewing (it had been years since I did read it, so I didn't remember much). Actually, rereading the book made my appreciation of the movie increase. The book is a light read, and I didn't find the characters very engaging. I usually read books in order to really chew through the details...but they are lacking in the book. That's why I really loved watching the movie again...it's like they fleshed out everything I found lacking in the book.

2. I felt like The Unexpected Party was depicted wonderfully in the film...and it's usually the type of scene that gets shorted in a film, due to the lack of action. But I loved it. I was also a little shocked that the film was able to follow the book so closely without feeling like a clone. It was nice.

Now, back to Thorin, I can't wait for him to show up with the bow and arrows in the next film. He's just bada$& in every way possible, it seems. Maybe I can even hope he has to take off his shirt so they can dress his wounds? ;) Yup, I'm a fangirl, guilty as charged.


Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jan 23 2013, 3:20pm

Post #8 of 69 (647 views)
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I liked Thorin's observatory table that lets him read the map [In reply to] Can't Post

I have no idea what it is, but I've formed my own opinion that since the table seems to be part of the very mountain itself, it could have been a mithril lode that the Elves didn't mine out, but fashioned into ithildin within the mountainside itself. And since ithildin of course mirrors moonlight and starlight, it's the reason it blazes with white light the moment the moon comes out from behind the clouds.

As an aside, I would've liked to have seen Balin mutter something like "Mithril... Moria" under his breath when he saw it, foreshadowing his desire to return and reclaim Moria.

I didn't recall the book mentioning Bilbo falling asleep while Thorin hums the song to himself. I'll be seeing the movie in a new light after this. And I also didn't notice that Oin and Gloin are the ones asked to light the fires in the movie.

As for hijacking the thread, I do have a Thorin-type observation mentioned in a YouTube comment about one particular scene, but it's not family friendly at all. At all.


AlassŽa Eruvande
Valinor


Jan 23 2013, 3:21pm

Post #9 of 69 (700 views)
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Thorin's hair? Yes! [In reply to] Can't Post

Rock-n-roll guitarist Thorin Laugh

1. Re reading The Hobbit? Yes. I started reading it aloud to my two boys in the weeks before the movie came out. But life, after school activities,and other reading assignments get in the way, and we're only to Rivendell. Frown My appreciation of the book hasn't changed that much. But Mr. Eruvande noted that the dwarves in the book behave more like the Keystone Kops, rather than the bad @$$e$ they are in the movie.

2. Little Details. I really loved the dwarve's cleaning up of Bag End, with all the flying saucers and mayhem. I also thought the Riddles in the Dark was very well done, even if they didn't do every riddle.

Favorite. Shot. Ever.

Lucky lady! She got to play with his hair!

Funny noises. Laugh



I am SMAUG! I kill when I wish! I am strong, strong, STRONG!
My armor is like tenfold shields! My teeth like swords! My claws, spears!
The shock of my tail, a thunderbolt! My wings, a hurricane! And my breath, death!


IdrilofGondolin
Rohan

Jan 23 2013, 3:31pm

Post #10 of 69 (623 views)
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Not IN the Book You Know [In reply to] Can't Post

. . . but I loved Balin's jibe at Sting's (yet to be named) being more of a letter opener. And the elves are a little silly in the book so that was going to be an issue with the darker tone. I think PJ did a great job in quoting that by how the elves played their instruments for the dwarves.


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Jan 23 2013, 4:26pm

Post #11 of 69 (655 views)
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You mean 'Elrond's table' I suppose... [In reply to] Can't Post

More likely that the ink used in the moon letters is made with ithildin. The table seems to be fashioned from crystal.

I don't entirely care for that scene. That is a lot of trouble to go to when all that is required is to hold the map up to the moonllight! I assume that the table allows the user to check for runes made during other phases of the moon and times of year as well.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jan 23 2013, 4:28pm)


julia0925
The Shire


Jan 23 2013, 5:08pm

Post #12 of 69 (599 views)
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re-read? no; details? yes [In reply to] Can't Post

1. Re-read after the movie, no. My book group chose it for our November book, though, so I did read it prior to the movie coming out. I usually don't do that, I'd rather see the movie for itself than for what I remember from the book so I don't spend the whole move going, "what about such and such?" I may have to re-read now, though. Totally missed the humming thing.

2. Not sure if this is a little detail, but in the books the dwarves are mostly a forgettable clump. Once in a while one will do something that will require a name so we know who did it, but for the most part I wasn't ever emotionally invested in them. Not even sure I really cared for Bilbo, although as a whole I liked the story. The movie, though, fleshes out each dwarf beautifully.

Speaking of which, Thorin really does have great hair, doesn't he? I'm a little new here, so missed all the previous posts about Thorin's hair. Especially when being carried by the eagle. Very flowy. One of the details I picked up on from my first viewing. CGI doesn't usually do a good job with hair, so they must have actually filmed RA in the clutches of the eagle. Fili and Kili have pretty great hair too; must run in the family.

-----
Lotr: You know it's been a bad day when even the elf is smudged.
TH: when the going gets tough, the tough call the eagles.


Rostron2
Gondor


Jan 23 2013, 5:50pm

Post #13 of 69 (548 views)
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The Hobbit as a book & film [In reply to] Can't Post

1. Yes, I did re-read the book. My estimation of the story hasn't changed, largely because it was the first book of Tolkien's I ever read, and I was hooked.

2. I'm constantly struck by how much detail there is in these films, and how much work went into many of the scenes. I was charmed by the tone of the film, which is rarely found today. It's also an adaptation that does bring certain things to life that the book doesn't. The culture of the dwarves; the dwarves themselves and their backstory were all well told. It's done with surprisingly little screen time, too. Like the brilliant prologue of LOTR, things are summed up pretty neatly in a short time. Since film is a visual media, it has that advantage, but there were scant details even from the book, and I thought the film-makers did a splendid job extrapolating visuals from very little description. The equipment carried with the company, the careworn clothing, and some of the visuals are just stunning.

I also like how PJ's camera work again follows the journey from left to right, (west to east) as you would follow the map. Whether you know Middle-earth or not, it gives a consistency to the geography, and pacing of movement that's very important.

The details in the physical sets are always fun to look at in stills and screencaps. The swords and helmet on the wall behind old Bilbo now look like they came from Dale, since we see similar weapons and armor on the soldier during the dragon attack. It difficult to breathe life into a world as vast as Tolkien's, but PJ and his crew have lost none of their skill in recapturing it. It still lives and breathes as it did ten years ago.

Someone made the point that the fantasy elements took over from the realistic elements (dwarves skiing on falling bridges, hanging onto Gandalf's staff, etc.) in these films. This is consistent with the story in another way: Bilbo is the narator. All good stories do get embellished. We're seeing it as he's telling it. The 'big fish' type of story is common. 'Dori was dangling precariously from either Gandalf's staff or a tree limb, I'm not sure which..."

I have family stories that grow in the telling. I think Bilbo is adding the detail we see.


Old Toby
Gondor


Jan 23 2013, 6:34pm

Post #14 of 69 (523 views)
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I re-read the book several months before the film came out [In reply to] Can't Post

so can't do post-film comparisons. But in answer to your second questions (btw I think you must be hanging out with Gollum too much....since you say you have three questions but only asks us two...LOL!):

1. Love the "Good Morning" sequence, so similar to the scene in the book
2. The appearance of the dwarves at Bilbo's door, really nicely done and so funny! (With the exception of Thorin's entrance, which was, IMO far superior to the book)
3. The entire sequence of the dwarves pillaging Bilbo's pantry and Bilbo's flustering and exasperation...thanks largely to Martiin Freeman's performance.
4. The dwarves' singing of both the songs, especially the Misty Mountains one, which exceeded my expectations. I've always loved the Misty Mountains song in the book, and hearing it brought to life was amazing. Not what I had imagined it to be, which was lighter and more cheerful, but the way it was presented in the film was so far superior to what I had imagined, I applaud this rendition! (And Thorin's singing of it was a goose-bump moment for me)
5. The Trolls were great, and as embellished as the scene was, I thought it was spot on...just the right mix of danger and humor.
6. The entire Riddles in the Dark sequence. I was most looking forward to seeing this particular scene, and thought Freeman and Serkis did a spectacular job of it. Couldn't have asked for anything better, IMO.
7. The rescue by the eagles was terrific...at least in 3D HFR. In the book I don't recall it being such a moving and breath-taking scenario. For me it was always, "Oh, the eagles are coming...again", but this time it really made me appreciate how great those birds are...and how BIG they are!
8. The cracking of the snail by the thrush at Erebor, although a small scene, was perfectly rendered. We see the other snail draw back into its shell, and the thrush trying to crack the snail seemed so realistic to me, it was a small but fabulous moment.

I will no doubt re-read the book before the next film comes out. I usually don't like to do that, just because I think it makes for a very biased view of the movie in its own right, but I'll read it far enough in advance so by the time the next movie comes around....I'll probably have forgotten a lot of what I've read! That's what you get for being as old and absent-minded as I am these days! On the upside, sometimes I don't remember what it is I've forgotten, so less to worry about! Wink

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)


Old Toby
Gondor


Jan 23 2013, 6:50pm

Post #15 of 69 (516 views)
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Oh also, #9 [In reply to] Can't Post

9. Bilbo's forgetting his handkerchief! It was unnecessary to the film, but just a nice nod to the book and to the fans! A geek's moment!

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Jan 23 2013, 6:57pm

Post #16 of 69 (518 views)
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And, I suspect, [In reply to] Can't Post

to write with ithildin as well. You'd need to rest parchment onto something, and I guess writing while the ithildin is illuminated makes it easier to see what you're doing.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauronís master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Jan 23 2013, 6:59pm

Post #17 of 69 (509 views)
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'Hair' you go: [In reply to] Can't Post

A previous thread on Thorin's hair. And welcome to TORN! :)

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauronís master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


The Prancing Pony
Rivendell

Jan 23 2013, 7:48pm

Post #18 of 69 (487 views)
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I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

1) Yes, I am currently re-reading the book and I must say that the movie influenced my perception of it greatly. I loved it before, but as you said, it is an even richer experience now. I've just finished "Out of the frying pan into the fire", so it is a perfect moment to just hold in a moment and reflect.

2) I think the good morning conversation in the movie has been directly taken from the book and when I read it, I saw it exactly that way. Also, I read the whole misty mountains song in the same melody as in the films. One of my favourite little details from the book is actually Bilbo forgetting his pocket-handkerchief (as a matter of fact, I never leave home without one, I would be utterly lost, so I think I always sympathised with Bilbo here). But I never expected they would include this in the movie. Riddles in the dark was really creepy when I read it (much more than before AUJ).

Another thing is that I was little surprised how quick I came from the very beginning to where I stopped now. It is almost as if I skipped some important part.

On another note, I am really glad now that the ponies in the movie ran away after the troll scene, whereas in the book the poor ponies may be able to see Rivendell, but are eaten by the goblins Frown. That always made me sad (especially because the other ponies later on are eaten by Smaug, so no luck for dwarven ponies), I am really glad they solved this.

All in all, AUJ has really made me care for the dwarves, who I never really cared about in the book before because they seemd so greedy and always find something to be grumpy about. However, I now really care for all of them, even those who did not say much or nothing at all. What struck me was how nicely Dori was taken from the pages onto the screen. Though we do not know much about him in the book, he is described as a very decent fellow. That is something would normally not mind much, but knowing how very decent he is in the movie, I now have quite a different picture of him.

Oh, and another thing, as you said you don't mind, I saw AUJ two days ago and I found myself continually distracted by Thorin's hair (counting the braids) because you talked so much about it. And you are right, it does seem to have a life of it's own.

"If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world."


MistyMountain
Lorien

Jan 23 2013, 9:03pm

Post #19 of 69 (503 views)
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Unless they used a body double... [In reply to] Can't Post

you can see A LOT more of Mr. Armitage in MI-5 Season 8, Episode 4.

Please, Ro, be sitting when watching as you may get faint Blush


bborchar
Rohan


Jan 23 2013, 9:07pm

Post #20 of 69 (462 views)
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Oh, I know... [In reply to] Can't Post

I've watched some MI-5...but I'm never averse to another peek ;)


imin
Valinor


Jan 23 2013, 9:20pm

Post #21 of 69 (437 views)
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answers from me :) [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
[Have you gone back to re-read The Hobbit since you first saw the movie? If so, has your appreciation of the book changed at all?
2. Have you been particularly struck by any little details in the book (or other source material) that you think were nicely depicted in the movie?

(Please note well that Iím not saying following or not following the book is good or bad or otherwise! And Iím not starting this thread to get into yet another debate about the merits of such!)


I read it just prior to watching the film, normally i read it every year over the christmas break. It has not really impacted how i view the book to be honest, i still imagine my dwarves as dwarves Tongue and its been there for many years now - getting on for two decades so its basically set, though i cant help but have the misty mountain song in the tune that it was in the film, was brilliant.

2. Elrond was particularly well acted this time around, better than LOTR. again the dwarves singing, good morning scene, gollum looked good, the general feel for the bag end stuff.


julia0925
The Shire


Jan 23 2013, 9:20pm

Post #22 of 69 (428 views)
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Thanks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Have to go read about Thorin's hair now...

-----
Lotr: You know it's been a bad day when even the elf is smudged.
TH: when the going gets tough, the tough call the eagles.


TintallŽ
Gondor


Jan 23 2013, 9:34pm

Post #23 of 69 (438 views)
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I have skimmed the book since seeing the movie [In reply to] Can't Post

and I love the bits that were lifted directly from the book, especially the opening interchange between Bilbo and Gandalf and "Confusticate and bebother these dwarves!" -- straight from the book to the screen! Oh, and the where did you go - to look ahead - what brought you back - looking behind exchange between Thorin and Gandalf post- troll-to-stone.

As for the dwarves, I love the movie dwarves far more than I ever liked those in the book with their colorful "best party hoods." I'm please to find that Thorin is not an "arrogant" little dwarf who plays a golden harp and wears a sky-blue hood with a silver tassel. I'm very invested in the movie dwarves; in fact, I am going back to the movie over and over again (nothing like gramma, but tonight will be #7) precisely because I love them.

As for Thorin, he had me at "Gandalf. . . " but he is truly swoonworthy in Rivendell when asks Elrond "Can you read it?" THAT VOICE. Guh.

What were the questions again? I seem to have become distracted. . .

Tonight will be the first time in IMAX 3D, with HFR no less. I'll either love it even more or be sick.


FlyingSerkis
Rivendell


Jan 23 2013, 9:43pm

Post #24 of 69 (419 views)
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Is MI-5 the American title for Spooks?// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Then ManwŽ and Yavanna parted for that time, and Yavanna returned to AulŽ; and he was in his smithy, pouring molten metal into a mould. 'Eru is bountiful,' she said. 'Now let thy children beware! For there shall walk a power in the forests whose wrath they will arouse at their peril.'

'Nonetheless they will have need of wood,' said AulŽ, and he went on with his smith-work.


MistyMountain
Lorien

Jan 23 2013, 10:00pm

Post #25 of 69 (401 views)
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Yes // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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