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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
So...how do you begin the next film
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Rostron2
Gondor


Jan 21 2013, 8:50pm

Post #1 of 41 (1381 views)
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So...how do you begin the next film Can't Post

Flashback? Which one? Someone here mentioned that PJ tends to start with a kick-off that's not the main narrative,and its usually something high energy, or intense like Smeagol/Deagol.


?


...just for fun...








How about a low energy flashback?

Scene: We see the final escape of the dwarves, then cut to: Azog and friends sit around a fire, passing teacups, and pouring tea, and dropping sugar lumps into it.

Orc: Well, boss, what do we do now?
Azog: Oh, I guess we'll have to head for Beorn's, but let me finish my tea first.


(This post was edited by Rostron2 on Jan 21 2013, 8:51pm)


Ardamírë
Valinor


Jan 21 2013, 8:53pm

Post #2 of 41 (804 views)
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Gandalf & Thrain [In reply to] Can't Post

I presume it will begin with Gandalf exploring Dol Guldor and finding Thrain. Since we know it will be shown in DoS at some point, it makes sense to me to put it right at the beginning. And since it was one of the scenes in AUJ I was most looking forward to, I hope to see it as soon as possible.

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


Greypilgrim
Bree

Jan 21 2013, 9:08pm

Post #3 of 41 (749 views)
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Dol Guldur [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it will be at Dol Guldur in some shape or form. Or if not there it will show the torture of Thrain and Gandalf coming to him for map and key (perhaps in Moria?).

I think the bits where we see Gandalf fighting "Thrain" in the trailer are meant to be later or for some reason. They have screwed with the time lines and made everyone mind boggled!! Maybe they did this on purpose so we wont know whats happening until it actually happens?

I read in an interview with Philipa Boyens that Thrain will be quite important to the later films. They apparently tried the map and key flash back at the start of movie one but felt it didn't work and have moved it to film 2.


peace1993
Bree


Jan 21 2013, 9:09pm

Post #4 of 41 (726 views)
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This should be the one [In reply to] Can't Post

I saw a podcast by empire magazine or collider (forgot which one).They had discussed the sequel with PJ who hinted that the encounter between Gandalf and Thrain would most likely kick off the 2nd film.

Sam: Trust a Brandybuck and a Took.
Merry: What? That was just a detour, a shortcut.
Sam: Shortcut to what?
Pippin: Mushrooms!


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Jan 21 2013, 9:10pm

Post #5 of 41 (676 views)
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Bad Orcs [In reply to] Can't Post

wouldn't be sipping tea...something stronger like coffee :) Have a coffeepot over the campfire...eating beans.

There it is: dwarves are not heroes, but calculating folk with a great idea of the value of money; some are tricky and treacherous and pretty bad lots; some are not, but are decent enough people like Thorin and Company, if you don't expect too much.


The Mitch King
Rohan


Jan 21 2013, 9:18pm

Post #6 of 41 (693 views)
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Beorn prologue [In reply to] Can't Post

I want a scene introducing Beorn and how Bolg lead the orcs that killed his kind. This would leave us nicely with the movie going back to carrock after and the company meeting Beorn. It would also set up the Bolg/Beorn showdown at the BoFA.


Ardamírë
Valinor


Jan 21 2013, 10:02pm

Post #7 of 41 (638 views)
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Mind-boggling [In reply to] Can't Post

I have wondered about Gandalf meeting Thrain at two different times, but it doesn't feel satisfactory. I just hope it all makes sense once we see all three films.

I know the consensus is that Thrain is the person Gandalf is fighting, but I'm really hoping it's not. From the book I have this image of Gandalf happening upon a crazed Thrain languishing in some deep dungeon. He's out of his mind and near death and wasting away in that dungeon. It's such a poignant image to me, and I'd hate to see that changed.

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


Ardamírë
Valinor


Jan 21 2013, 10:07pm

Post #8 of 41 (625 views)
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I saw the article, too. [In reply to] Can't Post

That's the reason I suggested it. I think it could be a great introduction. We know the writers think it mighty important, so it's not going to be relegated to the AUJ EE. Obviously it could be anywhere in DoS, but I think the beginning is the most likely.

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


bborchar
Rohan

Jan 21 2013, 10:29pm

Post #9 of 41 (584 views)
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Like others... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it will be Thrain's flashback. The timing is perfect, because it will be at the time when Gandalf must leave the company before Mirkwood.

Things I think about Thrain:

1. He's somehow related to Azog chasing Thorin. Gandalf asks Thorin who he told about the quest, and he said no one, which leaves the viewer wondering "why are they being hunted?" My guess is Thrain had something to do with this.

2. Azog says to Thrain "you reek of fear, like your father"- so we already have the connection. Balin also said that he disappeared after the battle at Moria.

It'll be interesting to see how Gandalf comes to the conclusion he has to leave the company (will Beorn tell him something that makes him seek out the necromancer?). I'm also curious to see how long they stay at Beorn's house (hopefully we'll get some orc-torturing action going on). It looks like they will stay long enough for Thorin's injuries to heal (I saw one screenshot of him still looking beat up in Beorn's house, and there's another picture of him with the company before entering Mirkwood where he only has a black eye remaining), so I'm sure we'll get some interesting information while they are there.


(This post was edited by bborchar on Jan 21 2013, 10:30pm)


Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Gondor


Jan 21 2013, 11:28pm

Post #10 of 41 (552 views)
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Gandalf, Beorn, Thrain, Bolg and Dol Guldur [In reply to] Can't Post

As I mentioned in two different threads before I would like to see Gandalf in Dol Guldur (connection to subplot) fighting a mad Thrain (connection to Thorin and the Quest) there and rescuing a tortured Beorn (connection to the next chapter of the book). Perhaps also our first official introduction of Bolg (connection to Azog) as the torturer of Beorn.

--> Perhaps it also works as a introduction to Beorn told by Gandalf to the dwarves and Bilbo. Preparing them for their next step.
--> Or it is just Gandalf thinking about it because they're now very close to Beorns house. Perhaps Gandalf tries to remind himself of this encounter. Perhaps looking for any clues of a return of Sauron.

Important: This all has to take place before Dol Guldur was abandoned, Otherwise Gandalfs "I thought it was abandoned" in AUJ wouldn't make any sense.


"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."

(This post was edited by Lieutenant of Dol Guldur on Jan 21 2013, 11:32pm)


Rostron2
Gondor


Jan 22 2013, 12:17am

Post #11 of 41 (486 views)
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I could see that happening... [In reply to] Can't Post

It seems to be the only real flashback-y thing left to cover. It would serve to give Beorn some more depth and motivations. It is mentioned in the book that many of Beorn's people have been killed.


berenTheMan
Registered User

Jan 22 2013, 12:41am

Post #12 of 41 (501 views)
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Necromancer waking the nine [In reply to] Can't Post

I would make a very dark and scary scene showing the Necromancer waking the nine dead kings


Ardamírë
Valinor


Jan 22 2013, 1:32am

Post #13 of 41 (469 views)
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I think... [In reply to] Can't Post

anything overtly dark, scary, and obviously necromancy would turn off too many people, especially considering that The Hobbit is absolutely not that kind of story.

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


xxxyyy
Rohan

Jan 22 2013, 1:40am

Post #14 of 41 (493 views)
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Forging of the Rings with Sauron in his fair form. [In reply to] Can't Post

and basically all the backstory of the Rings, their powers, their owners... evrything.
I'll repeat this till my dying day: it's all about the Rings.

http://energyfromthorium.com/


Ardamírë
Valinor


Jan 22 2013, 1:50am

Post #15 of 41 (448 views)
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The Hobbit... [In reply to] Can't Post

has nothing to do with Sauron and the forging of the rings.

I'd like such a scene in LOTR, though.

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


berenTheMan
Registered User

Jan 22 2013, 1:59am

Post #16 of 41 (489 views)
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[SPOILERS] [In reply to] Can't Post

this movie will be scarier and darker no matter what... dark forest, spiders, dungeons of thranduil palace, dol guldur, desolation of smaug...


Ardamírë
Valinor


Jan 22 2013, 2:08am

Post #17 of 41 (426 views)
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And none of that is black magic [In reply to] Can't Post

Which is what I was talking about. Pushing the limit with dark and scary sorcery is not at all what The Hobbit is about.

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jan 22 2013, 6:11am

Post #18 of 41 (364 views)
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With the Dwarves singing "The Wind Was On The Withered Heath" over a black screen... [In reply to] Can't Post

... that gives way to a montage of the Withered Heath where the Dragons bred, and from where Smaug came.


irodino
Bree


Jan 22 2013, 6:36am

Post #19 of 41 (379 views)
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Thorin wakes up from a dream about Smaug attacking Erebor [In reply to] Can't Post

is a distinct possibility, considering the amount of similar scenes between FOTR and AUJ. DOS might mirror TTT.

"The past tempts us, the present confuses us, and the future frightens us. And our lives slip away, moment by moment, lost in that terrible in-between."


Lissuin
Tol Eressea


Jan 22 2013, 10:19am

Post #20 of 41 (344 views)
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Well, are you forgetting that in the book... [In reply to] Can't Post

the eagles have deposited them on top of the Carrock. They make their way down the stairs and have a heated discussion when Gandalf tells the company that he will be leaving them soon (we now assume to take a look at things in Dol Guldur). They cry and plead, but Gandalf is adamant.

"After that they stopped pleading. Then they took off their clothes and bathed in the river..."

THAT is how I would begin. A bit of splashing and silly boyish exuberance in naught but their knickers after having escaped certain death. All purely innocent and tasteful, of course. It IS a children's book, don't you know?Angelic

After that we can get on with all the dark and dangerous stuff you lot seem to anticipate with relish - torture! battles! murder! oh, my!Sly


Roheryn
Grey Havens

Jan 22 2013, 10:58am

Post #21 of 41 (303 views)
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Bwahahaha! Yes!!! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
"After that they stopped pleading. Then they took off their clothes and bathed in the river..."

*can't...stop...giggling* I vote for this one. Tastefully done, yes, yes, of course. It'll be the Hobbit equivalent of the Parth Galen bathing scene! We'll be so transfixed we'll forgive anything that happens afterwards (except maybe them getting dressed again).... Can't wait to see Thorin disrobing, right down to his majestic knickers (I suppose he has to stop there?). *grin*


stoutfiles
Rohan


Jan 22 2013, 1:48pm

Post #22 of 41 (285 views)
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Beorn killing Azog [In reply to] Can't Post

Just cut right to Azog and a huge bear jumping out of the bushes and tearing into him. Cut to the orcs and their terrified faces for effect. They could show this scene for ten minutes or so.


Lightice
Lorien

Jan 22 2013, 2:28pm

Post #23 of 41 (274 views)
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I believe that every part of The Hobbit will begin with a prologue narration by old Bilbo. [In reply to] Can't Post

I believe that it is important to integrate the Necromancer in the story of the dwarves properly, in order to avoid a disjointed feel between Gandalf's own adventure and what Bilbo and the Company are doing, there needs to be a sense of connection between the two storylines. Because of this, we need every contact point that Sauron could possibly have with dwarves. With this in mind, I would like to believe that the prologue could be about the Dwarven Rings, how Sauron gave them to the dwarves but failed to control them, and was always at war against them since, trying to get them back, how he sent dragons to conquer their hoards and the Rings were lost until only Thrain's remained, and how he is now lost, as well.

I don't expect to see forging of the Rings, ofcourse, we already got a glimpse of that in the LotR. But Durin III receiving one of them? It's very possible, I think. It's about the only canonical time that Sauron interacted directly with dwarves, besides what happened to Thrain, making it a very important connection between the two sides of the story.

I'm really uncertain of how PJ is going to handle Thrain's storyline in the altered timeline of the films, but I don't think that he'd reduce all of what happened to Thrain to a mere prologue. I think that we need to see Thorin's reactions in person if/when he finds out what happened to his father and in what circumstances Gandalf got the map and the key. It is possible that in this version Gandalf may have resqued Thrain from danger after/during the Battle of Ananulbizar and he gave him those things for safekeeping before heading off and getting eventually captured (by the Nazgűl, Azog, or the Necromancer himself?). But this is all just completely blind speculation.


(This post was edited by Lightice on Jan 22 2013, 2:31pm)


bborchar
Rohan

Jan 22 2013, 3:58pm

Post #24 of 41 (231 views)
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I'm not sure they would want to add in Durin's ring... [In reply to] Can't Post

...because I think it might create a conflict. In the book's story, it's hinted that Thror was perhaps taken with the "dragon sickness" because he had Durin's ring. However, I don't think that will work in the film, because the movie seems to be hinting that dragon sickness is just caused by the gold itself, and that Thorin will be affected by it (and he won't have the ring). This is just my guess.

It's similar to the way the filmmakers decided that everyone in contact with the one ring in LotR would be affected by it in some way, even if it was a small way. It just adds continuity.


(This post was edited by bborchar on Jan 22 2013, 4:00pm)


nhui06
Rivendell

Jan 22 2013, 4:41pm

Post #25 of 41 (214 views)
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Not likely [In reply to] Can't Post

PJ's introduction flash backs normally involve an expansion of previous characters story arc (i.e. Gandalf and the Balrog in TTT, Smeagol in ROTK). We have not met Beorn yet.

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