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Veridandir
Rivendell
Jan 21 2013, 11:41am
Post #1 of 27
(3028 views)
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How come PJ didn't use the "history"-look for The Hobbit?
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I remember from the EE docs that PJ thought of Middle Earth as history, not fantasy.
Has he just completely dismissed this for The Hobbit? I had no feeling of this at all in ANY scenes. It was all fantasy. I loved the film, but I think it would've been a tad better with keeping that look. Maybe it was just the 3D and HFR that did it, but I doubt it.
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Joe20
Lorien
Jan 21 2013, 11:50am
Post #2 of 27
(2327 views)
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and I was a bit disappointed. While I love the film, I would have preferred the gritty realism we see in LOTR, especially like what we see in Rohan.
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Estel78
Tol Eressea
Jan 21 2013, 11:52am
Post #3 of 27
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It was suggested many times...
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...that they would use a different look due to it being a more innocent time. At least when Del Toro was still director.
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Lightice
Lorien
Jan 21 2013, 12:02pm
Post #4 of 27
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It's a deliberate and understandable choice.
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The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings are stylistically very different kinds of books. Peter Jackson's challenge is to convey this difference of style through visual means. Brighter colours and more stylicised look are both a part of this distinction. Furthermore, this story is coloured by Bilbo's perception from beginning to end, since he is the narrator of the story, and he would be the type to exaggerate and embellish details, if only subconsciously.
I in turn would have been very disappointed if The Hobbit had been stylistically identical with the LotR-trilogy. Even within the first trilogy PJ showed how he treats different periods and events in distinct styles; just look at the sepia-shaded prologue of the FotR, from the battle of the Last Alliance and the exaggerated, lush green of the Shire to the realistic war-film style of the rest of the trilogy. If he hadn't followed the suit with The Hobbit, I would simply have thought that he'd gone lazy.
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Glum
Bree
Jan 21 2013, 1:48pm
Post #5 of 27
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What's the difference between the history look and the fantasy look? Because I simply have no idea what this topic is about
(This post was edited by Altaira on Jan 21 2013, 4:23pm)
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deskp
Lorien
Jan 21 2013, 1:52pm
Post #6 of 27
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the color grading in LOTR is very muted and desaturated.
The hobbit is very colorfull and vibrat looking.
Also theres the fact that lotr uses filmgrain while Hobbit doesen't.
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geordie
Tol Eressea
Jan 21 2013, 1:54pm
Post #7 of 27
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- courtesy of google:
this is an example of a 'history' look -
http://www.thefashionhistorian.com/2011/03/head-to-toe-14th-century-woman.html
And this is a 'fantasy' look - https://www.fantasycostumes.com/
.
(This post was edited by geordie on Jan 21 2013, 1:55pm)
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Veridandir
Rivendell
Jan 21 2013, 1:58pm
Post #8 of 27
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Did they deliberately add it or was it a natural thing because they shot on film?
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deskp
Lorien
Jan 21 2013, 2:00pm
Post #9 of 27
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Its must have been deliberate, because various types of film have different amount of filmgrain.
You can shoot on film with minimal filmgrain.
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Súlimë
Rivendell
Jan 21 2013, 3:13pm
Post #10 of 27
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I think that it's a good decision to make the Hobbit's tone different from The Lord of the Rings -- which keeps it much more in the spirit of the book. I feel like it would be wrong to turn The Hobbit into something it isn't.
I think the 'colors' will be toned down to make for a more realistic battle in BoFA though.
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bborchar
Rohan
Jan 21 2013, 3:58pm
Post #11 of 27
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I wouldn't be surprised if they muted the colors once they get to Erebor...that's is the start of a very dark part of the Hobbit (Thorin succumbing to dragon sickness and all that).
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dormouse
Half-elven
Jan 21 2013, 4:15pm
Post #12 of 27
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The Hobbit isn't Lord of the Rings
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The book is quite different in style and tone - to start with. It becomes darker later and I wouldn't be surprised if the films don't reflect that. If there was a much lighter feel to this film then that's why, and I think it's entirely appropriate.
Actually, though, I'm not even sure this is the case. I was watching 'Fellowship of the Ring' a few nights ago and it struck me that the colour palette at least wasn't so very different. Rivendell in that film is as colourful and bright and as real or unreal as Bilbo's Rivendell.
Seems to me that Bilbo's confrontation with Gollum is no different either, stylistically, from Frodo and Sam. Just as dark, just as serious, the stakes just as high. ' Also I'd say the climax of AUJ was as realistic as anything in the previous films - except in one sense. So far we have no men in the story. I think that may have more of an effect than people realise. At the moment it's all hobbit, dwarves, wizards, elves, trolls, goblins, so how could it not look like fantasy? You might find that it seems more real to you when men appear on the scene.
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stoutfiles
Rohan
Jan 21 2013, 5:54pm
Post #13 of 27
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It's the LOTR intro, that's the problem
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If he wanted to go the fantasy route that would have been fine, but don't give us a LOTR intro and then expect us to be comfortable jumping into a different fantasy world. The intro established a LOTR feel that the rest of the movie doesn't deliver on.
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Chainsaw Charlie
Bree
Jan 21 2013, 6:02pm
Post #14 of 27
(1950 views)
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I remember from the EE docs that PJ thought of Middle Earth as history, not fantasy.
... I had no feeling of this at all in ANY scenes. It was all fantasy.
ANY scenes...
Seriously?
Did you see the opening prologue?
Are you telling me that prologue felt more "fantastical" than, say, Treebeard, and Treebeard felt more "historical" than the Hobbit prologue?
Again, seriously?
(I'll not even get into the flashbacks, Riddles in the Dark, White Council, etc. ...)
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Angharad73
Rohan
Jan 21 2013, 6:10pm
Post #15 of 27
(1938 views)
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It actually makes sense to me...
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...in a way. The world presented in the Hobbit is a brighter world, perhaps, because the evil that threatens this world in LOTR is not as near. There is no immediate sense of doom and the story is more light-hearted. So having brighter colours in the Hobbit movies, where the over-all theme (so far) is lighter. What I mean is that it's an Adventure, so far. A dangerous one, I grant you, but still an adventure. It will show its darker side later, and perhaps this will be reflected in the colours etc.
I don't really see any other differences than the colours. Hobbits still look like Hobbits, Elves look like elves. So maybe I just don't understand correctly 
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swordwhale
Tol Eressea
Jan 21 2013, 6:42pm
Post #16 of 27
(1917 views)
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pretty much summed up what I was thinking...
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The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings are stylistically very different kinds of books. Peter Jackson's challenge is to convey this difference of style through visual means. Brighter colours and more stylicised look are both a part of this distinction. Furthermore, this story is coloured by Bilbo's perception from beginning to end, since he is the narrator of the story, and he would be the type to exaggerate and embellish details, if only subconsciously.
I in turn would have been very disappointed if The Hobbit had been stylistically identical with the LotR-trilogy. Even within the first trilogy PJ showed how he treats different periods and events in distinct styles; just look at the sepia-shaded prologue of the FotR, from the battle of the Last Alliance and the exaggerated, lush green of the Shire to the realistic war-film style of the rest of the trilogy. If he hadn't followed the suit with The Hobbit, I would simply have thought that he'd gone lazy.
Go outside and play...
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Rane
Bree
Jan 21 2013, 6:48pm
Post #17 of 27
(1917 views)
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I'm glad he made the colors more vibrant. LOTR had a darker aspect to it that The Hobbit. People expect everything to be like the Dark Knight now.
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swordwhale
Tol Eressea
Jan 21 2013, 6:55pm
Post #18 of 27
(1892 views)
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The book is quite different in style and tone - to start with. It becomes darker later and I wouldn't be surprised if the films don't reflect that. If there was a much lighter feel to this film then that's why, and I think it's entirely appropriate.
Actually, though, I'm not even sure this is the case. I was watching 'Fellowship of the Ring' a few nights ago and it struck me that the colour palette at least wasn't so very different. Rivendell in that film is as colourful and bright and as real or unreal as Bilbo's Rivendell.
Seems to me that Bilbo's confrontation with Gollum is no different either, stylistically, from Frodo and Sam. Just as dark, just as serious, the stakes just as high. ' Also I'd say the climax of AUJ was as realistic as anything in the previous films - except in one sense. So far we have no men in the story. I think that may have more of an effect than people realise. At the moment it's all hobbit, dwarves, wizards, elves, trolls, goblins, so how could it not look like fantasy? You might find that it seems more real to you when men appear on the scene.
Tolkien wrote an essay, On Faerie Stories, it's lurking somewhere in one of the many Tolkien books I have. He said something about faerie tales not being about Elves, but about humans wandering in Faerie (or "on its shadowy marches)... and then he wrote the Silmarillion, which is mostly about Elves, and the Hobbit, which has no normal humans until you reach Laketown.
I happen to like this. I have no problem relating to a Hobbit and some of those excellent Dwarves, and the Mirkwood Party Elves (I mean, really, drunken Captain of the Guard, parties that vanish poof! into the dark wood).
I think the style of the film reflects the style of the book, and as someone has observed, we may be hearing Bilbo's slightly exaggerated style of narration. While the film doesn't have a distinct narrator (except in those nice little backstories), the book has a narrator whose voice you can hear (it seems as if you are sitting by a campfire listening to someone tell the tale). I think the film reflects this.
When I first watched it, I thought the action was perhaps a bit over the top, I mean really, nobody would have survived that! Oh wait, what was that Gandalf said about good tales needing some, um, enhancement? Oh yeah, and they're Dwarves, and Hobbit, clearly much tougher and more resiliant than mere humans. And they're padded well.
It has been awhile since I watched LOTR, so I didn't notice the different visual style so much (though I did notice the difference between HFR and normal frame rate Imax, bleah! Love HFR!) I think we will see different styles in different parts of the tale. The flashback battle that Balin tells is very "300" and quite grey/sepia, while the scenes right before the dragon attack are very vibrant and colorful.
Go outside and play...
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swordwhale
Tol Eressea
Jan 21 2013, 6:57pm
Post #19 of 27
(1887 views)
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it was a dark and stormy knight...
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I'm glad he made the colors more vibrant. LOTR had a darker aspect to it that The Hobbit. People expect everything to be like the Dark Knight now.
I for one am thoroughly tired of Dark and Grim and Gritty. I love Batman and thought the last film well done, but geeeeeez! Just give me the Avengers....
Certainly the Hobbit film will have its dark places. But overall the message is one of faith and hope and light. And the film should reflect that.
Go outside and play...
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jan 21 2013, 7:13pm
Post #20 of 27
(1876 views)
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as it would reflect the darker tone of the book near the end - and also start the redirection towards the tone of LOTR.
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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dormouse
Half-elven
Jan 21 2013, 7:27pm
Post #21 of 27
(1858 views)
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I don't have a problem relating to the non-human characters either...
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...I like it, but I think that for some people it does make a difference.
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elostirion74
Rohan
Jan 21 2013, 8:22pm
Post #22 of 27
(1826 views)
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Hmm, not always quite sure what you mean
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There is a different use of colours in AUJ since the original story, and especially the first third that this story covers, is considerably lighter in tone than LoTR. Although the film is more of a compromise between the original story and the LOTR films, I found the more vibrant colours a good way of distinguishing The Hobbit and LoTR stylistically.
Since the original story gets progressively darker, the look of the subsequent Hobbit films will probably change towards something more historical, but I don´t expect it to match or resemble that of LoTR too much.
Since you´re commenting specifically on the "look", I think I can understand where you´re coming from. Initially I felt more confused about what you meant, since I find that AUJ feels as much or more realistic in several other respects, especially in terms of visual detail.
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swordwhale
Tol Eressea
Jan 21 2013, 8:25pm
Post #23 of 27
(1823 views)
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There is a different use of colours in AUJ since the original story, and especially the first third that this story covers, is considerably lighter in tone than LoTR. Although the film is more of a compromise between the original story and the LOTR films, I found the more vibrant colours a good way of distinguishing The Hobbit and LoTR stylistically.
Since the original story gets progressively darker, the look of the subsequent Hobbit films will probably change towards something more historical, but I don´t expect it to match or resemble that of LoTR too much.
Since you´re commenting specifically on the "look", I think I can understand where you´re coming from. Initially I felt more confused about what you meant, since I find that AUJ feels as much or more realistic in several other respects, especially in terms of visual detail.
I really must look at LOTR again. I've quite forgotten how it is different. I suspect the increased sense of detail may have something to do with the HFR and 3D (none of which were used on LOTR). I love the detail, and that fact that you can see detail even when things are moving fast.
Go outside and play...
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Veridandir
Rivendell
Jan 21 2013, 8:31pm
Post #24 of 27
(1830 views)
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There is a goal to always minimize the amount of grain. It's more likely the nature of celluloid film.
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Jax_Teller
Rivendell
Jan 21 2013, 9:34pm
Post #25 of 27
(1798 views)
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Yep, grain is inherent to film
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Obvious as hell, but still.
The Hobbit AUJ does have some very fine grain though, something we'll see more blatantly on BR.
I got a pretty big screen (projection) and Red Epic has a very fine grain to it, Prometheus has some, it's just more refined.
Of course, you can still add (and some movies shot digitally do) some grain and get a similar result to film.
I gotta say that I love the look of the LOTR trilogy, the cinematography is gorgeous but I love just as much The Hobbit AUJ if not more.
Digital cinematography can be gorgeous, and here we have a beautiful example, beautiful color palette, skin tones, it looks more fantasy-like, and it's a great thing.
I still marvel at practically all the film, but most especially that Azalnubizar flashback when Thorin walks up to the top of the hill, after the victory, and the sun shines bright behind him, hero pose, one of the most breathtaking shots ever committed to film/digital ;)
Blunt the knives, bend them forks, smash the bottles and burn the corks.
That's what Bilbo Baggins hates !
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