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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Just a couple more geeky observations
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Old Toby
Gondor


Jan 20 2013, 7:06am

Post #1 of 78 (1729 views)
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Just a couple more geeky observations Can't Post

If these have been mentioned before in other observation threads, pardon my repetition. This is the first time I've noticed these few things:

1. The Troll scene: when the dwarves come to Bilbo's rescue, Thorin uses Dwalin's back to jump up to hack at a troll (seems Dwalin is used a lot as a jumping off point!)
2. Riddles in the Dark: when Gollum asks Bilbo for three guesses to Bilbo's last question, Gollum is only holding up two fingers.
3. On the Carrock scene: just as they are all walking to the front to look at what Thorin sees (the Lonely Mountain), Nori helps Dori step up onto the higher rock (they are the last dwarves and we see them from the back)
4. In the Goblin Town: when the dwarves are escaping, Balin does an incredible move with his sword, nailing the goblin in front and the goblin in back of him. (Thorin was right....there are some among them that are still warriors!)

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)


Angharad73
Rohan

Jan 20 2013, 9:54am

Post #2 of 78 (934 views)
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I don't remember... [In reply to] Can't Post

...No. 4 on your list. Darn it, now I'l have to watch it again! Sly


Roheryn
Grey Havens

Jan 20 2013, 11:12am

Post #3 of 78 (895 views)
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Love these. :-) [In reply to] Can't Post

Re: your #1, I had seen a Dwarf using Dwalin for a springboard for a couple of viewings, and just finally managed on my last one to work out that it was Thorin. Don't those two work well together? And from another thread today, I discovered Graham McTavish's twitter site (never had a look at one of those things before) -- and in one tweet he said it was Nori who used his head to leap into a pine tree. Poor Dwalin!

I know I had a couple more observations too, but I'm still having trouble getting past Thorin's hair. Cool


Angharad73
Rohan

Jan 20 2013, 11:18am

Post #4 of 78 (910 views)
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Thorin's hair... [In reply to] Can't Post

Thorin's hair is rather nice, isn't it? I wish I had flowing locks like that...Tongue

And regarding Dwalin, to me he looks like one of the few I would trust to be solid enough to use as a springboard, be it off his back or head. I find that my appreciation of Dwalin rather deepens the more I see of him. Sure, there are the 'pretty' dwarves that catch the eye at first, but the more I look, the more I like the others.


Loresilme
Valinor


Jan 20 2013, 1:24pm

Post #5 of 78 (874 views)
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Oh! Another Dori one I noticed yesterday [In reply to] Can't Post

When they're sitting around the table in Bag End and Gandalf takes out the map, when Bilbo reads out loud the words, "The...Lonely Mountain", it seemed to me that Dori makes a gesture with his hand and (I think) a noise, as if to say he doesn't want to hear anything about that place. It was very quick -- did anyone else see and interpret that the same (or a different) way?


Loresilme
Valinor


Jan 20 2013, 1:39pm

Post #6 of 78 (821 views)
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The more times I watch the more time I can spend watching them too [In reply to] Can't Post

And the detail and care that go into every single one of their characters is just incredible. I agree, it's kind of tough to drag one's eyes and ears away from Thorin, lol, -- I think I have every facial expression and vocal intonation committed to memory Smile, but one of the things that's so interesting about watching a film like AUJ numerous times is being able to observe what other characters are doing while the focus is on the main action or character in the scene. I'm sure looking forward to more of that great detail in the next two films.


ryouko
Lorien

Jan 20 2013, 1:41pm

Post #7 of 78 (823 views)
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no, I didn't, oddly enough [In reply to] Can't Post

Dori's one of my faves, so I tend to watch him. But I missed that one. I'll have to look next time.

One thing I never noticed, until I was looking at the tweets on Graham McTavish's Facebook page, is that part of Dwalin's right ear is missing. I don't know how I missed that one! OUCH! In his tweet, he said an Orc bit it off. I'll have to see if his ear is missing after the battle scene.


Angharad73
Rohan

Jan 20 2013, 2:07pm

Post #8 of 78 (785 views)
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Oh yes... [In reply to] Can't Post

There is so much things going on in some of the scenes that it is imperative to watch the movie again and again, just to see what exactly every one of the characters is doing. I can't keep track of all of them at once, especially in the battle scenes but also in other scenes where they all are together. This movie has to be watched multiple times to fully appreciate it! Well, that's as good an excuse as any to watch it again, anyway Wink


Loresilme
Valinor


Jan 20 2013, 2:19pm

Post #9 of 78 (789 views)
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It was?! [In reply to] Can't Post

Part of Dwalin's ear is missing? I *have* to look more closely next time. Ah, another reason to watch it again, lol.
And I need to look up GMcT's Twitter account - I'm not sure but I think I read he really was the one who started the "we use the toilet & then we leave" joke (re what Thorin said to him when they first entered Rivendell).


ryouko
Lorien

Jan 20 2013, 2:28pm

Post #10 of 78 (779 views)
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It wasn't only me. *whew* [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought that my observational skills were really bad, but I'm glad I'm not the only one who missed that.

He pretty cool about responding to fans' questions. Some of his answers are down-right funny!! Ok, most of them! More than once I was in pain from laughing. Laugh


arithmancer
Grey Havens

Jan 20 2013, 3:30pm

Post #11 of 78 (770 views)
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Azog Observation [In reply to] Can't Post

He appears to be right-handed. His use of his left hand in the moment when Thorin cut it off was a momentary thing, he was using his mace primarily in his right (or both) throughout the battle until that moment.


Kirly
Lorien


Jan 20 2013, 4:15pm

Post #12 of 78 (762 views)
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Speaking of ears..... [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't know if it was the angle we were seeing the character or not but it looked like Azog's left ear was quite a bit more ragged than his right ear. As if it too had been bitten off in battle. That would not be surprising considering they do stick out quite a bit and there is no hair to conceal them from an opponent.

Of course, I would much rather look at ThorinAndFiliAndKili and their hair. I still want replicas of those hair doodads.

My avatar photo is Lake Takepo in New Zealand's South Island. Taken by me in 2004 on a Red Carpet Tours LOTR Movie Location Tour. 'Twas the Vacation of a Lifetime!

(This post was edited by Kirly on Jan 20 2013, 4:18pm)


Old Toby
Gondor


Jan 20 2013, 4:54pm

Post #13 of 78 (723 views)
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I agree, and that's why it's a must to watch it multiple times [In reply to] Can't Post

There's so much going on in the background, with the other dwarves, that you would miss them completely the first time around...and maybe even the second and third...since you are concentrating on the main action of each scene. I think that's what makes this movie so much fun: the dwarves are such unique individuals and what the actors bring to them is just priceless! It's so entertaining to watch them as they bring each dwarf to life.

I forgot to mention...watch Bifur when everyone is shouting about how many dragons Gandalf has killed. He's doing the strangest things with his hands! It's almost like when emotions get raised by those around him, he goes off into his own Bifur-world. That axe in his head must have short-circuited him.

And yes, in every scene Thorin is in, he's front and center in my attention! LOL! Hard to care about what else is happening at the time. ("Oh, there's an orc coming our way you say? Please go away and don't bother me. Can't you see Thorin is here...and his hair is looking particularly tasty!" Tongue) Speaking of which, check out his reaction in the beginning of the film when Bilbo has just joined their company and he asks them to stop because he forgot his handkerchief.

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)

(This post was edited by Old Toby on Jan 20 2013, 5:01pm)


florian
The Shire

Jan 20 2013, 5:06pm

Post #14 of 78 (740 views)
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Thorin's facial expressions are priceless [In reply to] Can't Post

In the Troll scene did anyone notice the eyeroll he gave when the other dwarves didn't catch on as fast as they should? Or the way he wastrying to untie his sack with his teeth? When Bilbo starts talking about skinning the dwarves before cooking them he REALLY gets busy trying to get loose from that bag!


Old Toby
Gondor


Jan 20 2013, 5:14pm

Post #15 of 78 (718 views)
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Yup [In reply to] Can't Post

I did notice those things! And watching Kili's expression as Thorin drops his sword to spare Bilbo's life when the trolls are threatening to dismember him...seems Kili can't believe Thorin has just done that: surrendered to the trolls to save Bilbo, but he throws down his bow too to follow Thorin's lead.

Also the silence of the dwarves after Bilbo has given his 'why I'm staying' speech to Thorin, to me reflects that Thorin wasn't the only dwarf questioning Bilbo's suitability for their quest. Perhaps a lot of the others were feeling a bit guilty too.

These are just my speculations though, not 'observations' per se.

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)


Ruxendil_Thoorg
Grey Havens


Jan 20 2013, 5:15pm

Post #16 of 78 (717 views)
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Nice ones! [In reply to] Can't Post

1. Those guys go way back, so, yeah.

2. Yeah I noticed that! I'm surprised SNL didn't riff on it in its send-up last night. They might have shown gollum saying "...three guesses" while presenting seven fingers and two toes...then correct himself by putting one finger down.

3. Totally missed that! Will look for it.

4. Picked up on that. I infer that Balin is the swordsmaster extraordinaire / Yoda of the group, more skill-oriented than his more muscular brother.



Thanks!




In Reply To
1. The Troll scene: when the dwarves come to Bilbo's rescue, Thorin uses Dwalin's back to jump up to hack at a troll (seems Dwalin is used a lot as a jumping off point!)
2. Riddles in the Dark: when Gollum asks Bilbo for three guesses to Bilbo's last question, Gollum is only holding up two fingers.
3. On the Carrock scene: just as they are all walking to the front to look at what Thorin sees (the Lonely Mountain), Nori helps Dori step up onto the higher rock (they are the last dwarves and we see them from the back)
4. In the Goblin Town: when the dwarves are escaping, Balin does an incredible move with his sword, nailing the goblin in front and the goblin in back of him. (Thorin was right....there are some among them that are still warriors!)


A bag is like a hole that you can carry with you.

http://newboards.theonering.net/...forum_view_expanded;


Angharad73
Rohan

Jan 20 2013, 5:32pm

Post #17 of 78 (718 views)
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About Bifur... [In reply to] Can't Post

in that scene I assumed he was actually using Iglishmek, the Dwarven sign language. I wonder what he is saying...


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Jan 20 2013, 6:48pm

Post #18 of 78 (732 views)
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Great Obs! :) I've got some more of my own! [In reply to] Can't Post

There have been others that noted Gollum holds up what looks like 2 fingers for 3 guesses, but to me it looks like one of the fingers is blocked by another finger because of the angle we're seeing them at.

Here are mine. Some may have been noted by others already, but I'll weed out mine when I add them to the main list... which I'm now updating!
In Erebor and Dale:
Most of the gold coins were stacked
There are places for more horns in the tower.
The 4 horns used to alert the City face away from the Mountain.
Old Bilbo's Bag End
There's a cloth rumpled towards the back of the chest. Could it be the borrowed cloak from his adventure?
Young Bilbo's Bag End
There is a basket of red apples with a green one perched on top by Bilbo's front door
Games are mentioned a lot. Bilbo's quite gifted at conkers; croquet (if you have the balls for it); riddles.
A Merry Gathering
Thorin didn't take the Key from Gandalf. He waited until Gandalf released it to him. Very honourable.
As the Dwarves are singing of the Lonely Mountain, Balin is tearing up.
Bilbo never did get into bed properly. When he wakes in the morning, it's apparent he had just tipped over across the foot of the bed from where he listened to the Dwarves sing.
The only evidence that the Dwarves had been at Bag End are the empty pantry, the burned-down candles, and a contract lying on the footstool right where Bilbo left it.
The Quest Begins
Nori took bets that Bilbo wouldn't show up.
Bofur is the consummate optimist. "You're part of the Company" ; "That could have been worse" ; and he's trying to smoke his pipe in the pouring rain.
When Bilbo gets up and stretches in their first night of camping, Myrtle the pony looks up and watches as he walks towards her.
Instead of running back to the camp to tell Thorin and the others that the ponies are missing and Trolls have been spotted, Bilbo's Tookish side takes over once again as he follows Fili and Kili to investigate the light.
Azog & Moria
Azog is... was... left-handed.
Trolls
As the Dwarves are turning on the spit, one of them says, "Is this really necessary?"
Trolls Identified:
BERT Cooks / bad eye / wears leather apron / names himself / sits on our right played by Mark Hadlow / Dori
TOM Has cold / suspenders / sits in center / sitting on a rock played by William Kircher / Bifur
WILLIAM Sharpening knife / loin cloth / sits on our left / sitting on a barrel played by Peter Hambleton / Gloin
O O O
William Tom Bert
Flurgerburger hobbit knows about seasoning and cooking Dwarves. Bilbo gives lesson on how to cook dwarves to stall for time.
Radagast
As Radagast crosses the bridge to Dol Guldur, you can see red Xs [of doom?] like graffiti on the side of the bridge.
It looks like there's some kind of pelt on the wooden brace behind Radagast when he's realizing there's dark magic at work.
Radagast fighting the Witch-king! You expect him to be in trouble, but he nails that spirit cold!
Warg Attack
Thorin carries Orcrist on his back because the sword and sheath are too long for him to wear at his side.
Rivendell
Bombur has a kettle hanging from his backpack.
Some of the Company have piled their gear in the center of the landing; but are still hold their weapons.
Lindir said they hear they'd crossed into the Valley? Did Radagast send word?
When Gandalf brings out the wrapped Morgul blade, there's a heavy-thud as he places it on the table. An ominous sound like when the Ring falls in Goblin-town, and on the floor of Bag End in LotR. When Galadriel and Gandalf are talking, there's an Elven Guard stationed on the balcony of a tower just below them.
Stone Giants
When the Stone Giants are fighting, one has its head knocked off. Fili, Bofur, Bilbo, Dwalin, Bombur, and Ori are still on the legs of that Giant and are dropped onto the rock-wall path when it crashes as it falls forward before dropping into the chasm.
When Bilbo is hanging from the cliff. Ori grabs his hand just as he loses his grip. Bofur reaches to grab Bilbo's other hand, but can't get to him. Thorin jumps down and pulls Bilbo to safety before slipping himself. Then Dwalin reaches down and saves Thorin.
The Company entered the mountain through a bare cliff rock wall; the other side of the mountain was grassy, tree-covered and a steep, but manageable slope.
Goblin-town
As the Dwarves are being herded to the Great Goblin, his landing is well-let by a chandelier of several flames.
Smeagol agrees to play the Riddle Game with Bilbo, but Gollum soon takes over.
Gandalf holds his staff and sword through Goblin-town and when facing the Great Goblin the same way he did when facing the Balrog.

STONE GIANT DECISION
...There have been a lot of discussions about the Dwarves on the Stone Giant's legs. The following observations apply to the discussion. After several viewings and following all the obs, I'm making a call on which dwarf was where until we can all grab a remote and check fersher!
...Bottom line, the biggest confusion comes from Thorin crying out for Kili... which he does several times. I believe this is a continuity error (which I don't indulge in), OR as I prefer to believe... Kili is at the end of the line of Dwarves with Thorin, so he doesn't know Kili's there with him all along ;)
..So here are some of the observations that lead up to my list. We'll attack this perplexity when the DVD comes out... 'kay?
1. Kili has one foot on each stone giant leg. As the stone giant legs separate, his feet start to separate as well and he goes to the right of the audience.
2. Fili, on our left, says to Kili, "Grab my hand", but the giant moved too fast to allow this.
3. When it appears that Kili and the other Dwarves on the stone giant leg on the right of the screen are smashed and killed, Thorin screams "Kili" a couple times.
4. When we see that the Dwarves to the right of the screen are not killed, we hear, "They're alive!" and Thorin rushes towards them saying, with great relief, "Kili".
The Stone Giant's left leg (on our right)
1) Thorin
2) Gloin
3) Kili
4) Oin
5) Dori
6) Balin
7) Bifur
8) Nori
The Stone Giant's right leg (on our left) that crashes into the mountain face
9) Fili
10) Bofur
11) Bilbo
12) Dwalin
13) Bombur
14) Ori



and first draught of TH:AUJ Geeky Observation List - updated list coming soon



sample

I'm SO HAPPY these new films take me back to that magical world!!



TORn's Geeky Observations Lists (updated soon)
LotR Unused Scenes



grammaboodawg
Immortal


Jan 20 2013, 6:53pm

Post #19 of 78 (666 views)
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**I've Gathered Geeky List Info from this post -- Keep 'em comin' THANKS ALL! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 



First draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observation List - updated list coming soon



sample

I'm SO HAPPY these new films take me back to that magical world!!



TORn's Geeky Observations Lists (updated soon)
LotR Unused Scenes



Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Jan 20 2013, 6:54pm

Post #20 of 78 (709 views)
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A little red wine [In reply to] Can't Post

On my last viewing, I finally figured this one out!

(I may have the dialogue a little off):

Dori offers Gandalf some chamo-mile tea...Gandalf responds: a little red wine for me.
Dori brings him the wine in a small glass (it's small in Dori's hand too): a little red wine, it has a fruity bouquet...

Dori brought him exactly what he asked for--a "little" red wine.

There it is: dwarves are not heroes, but calculating folk with a great idea of the value of money; some are tricky and treacherous and pretty bad lots; some are not, but are decent enough people like Thorin and Company, if you don't expect too much.


hutch
Rohan


Jan 20 2013, 7:04pm

Post #21 of 78 (673 views)
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Wow. [In reply to] Can't Post

Somebody was taking notes.

Davy Jones could've been Bilbo...I mean he was a Brit with a sense for adventure, singing & dancing. And think of the costs it would've save with forced perspective: he was ACTUALLY 5'3. He also hung out with a grumpy tall dude in a hat (Mike Nesmith.) While we're at it let's just have Micky Dolenz and Peter Tork as Merry & Pippin.


Anubis
Rivendell


Jan 20 2013, 7:41pm

Post #22 of 78 (680 views)
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I got another one from last day. [In reply to] Can't Post

Just noticed that while every dwarf in the initial meeting rings the door bell, Thorin actually knocks on the door.

Perhaps he was impatient after getting lost twice?


Ruxendil_Thoorg
Grey Havens


Jan 20 2013, 7:52pm

Post #23 of 78 (662 views)
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Ha! good one XD [In reply to] Can't Post

Gandalf's expression: "I said a little, not a thimble...." Laugh

I'm a sucker for puns and double meanings. I'll be looking for that one!

A bag is like a hole that you can carry with you.

http://newboards.theonering.net/...forum_view_expanded;


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Jan 20 2013, 7:53pm

Post #24 of 78 (663 views)
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Dwarves on spit [In reply to] Can't Post

When Bilbo suggest skinning the Dwarves first, Dwalin is yelling from the spit " I won't forget that! I won't forget that!"

There it is: dwarves are not heroes, but calculating folk with a great idea of the value of money; some are tricky and treacherous and pretty bad lots; some are not, but are decent enough people like Thorin and Company, if you don't expect too much.


Ruxendil_Thoorg
Grey Havens


Jan 20 2013, 7:54pm

Post #25 of 78 (660 views)
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These are great gramma! [In reply to] Can't Post

I have tons of things to look for now! CrazySmile

A bag is like a hole that you can carry with you.

http://newboards.theonering.net/...forum_view_expanded;

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