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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Dwalin, Gloin and Oin born in Erebor?
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Hamfast of Gamwich
Rivendell


Jan 19 2013, 11:53am

Post #1 of 29 (799 views)
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Dwalin, Gloin and Oin born in Erebor? Can't Post

Give that Thorin's age has been changed in the film, and he has been made younger than Dwalin, Gloin and Oin, does this mean they were all now born in Erebor?

Is there any mention of the gap between Smaug's attack and the quest in the film?

Has anyone spotted any dwarves other than Balin and Thorin in the prologue? (I know Dwalin and Gloin are at the Battle of Azanulbizar)


(This post was edited by Hamfast of Gamwich on Jan 19 2013, 11:57am)


ryouko
Lorien

Jan 19 2013, 1:18pm

Post #2 of 29 (406 views)
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It's possible. [In reply to] Can't Post

Hard to say really.

But as for the others at the big battle, I don't think so. People have said they've seen them in the background, but I'm not pretty sure they weren't. I got the art and design book, and it only shows that Thorin, Dwalin, and Balin were there. The book shows and discusses their "younger" designs, but there is no mention of any of the others. I would think that if Oin or Bifur were there, their younger versions would be in the book. Shame really. It'd been neat to have some of the others in that scene. Unsure


Radagast-Aiwendil
Gondor


Jan 19 2013, 1:35pm

Post #3 of 29 (398 views)
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Never noticed Gloin at Azanulbizar [In reply to] Can't Post

Good spot, only saw Thorin, Balin and Dwalin. Do you know exactly when it is that we see him?

"These are Gundabad Wargs! They will outrun you!"

"THESE are Rhosgobel Rabbits! I'd like to see them try...."



Kirly
Lorien


Jan 19 2013, 3:38pm

Post #4 of 29 (341 views)
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Smaug attack at least 60 years prior to the meeting at BagEnd [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Is there any mention of the gap between Smaug's attack and the quest in the film?


Doesn't Thorin say "The dragon Smaug has not been seen for 60 years." at Bag End? That would mean it has been at least 60 years since the attack. But, I don't recall any mention of any other length of time nor any mention of any sightings since the attack. That's odd. Don't dragons have to eat actual food? Shouldn't that have seen him flying around hunting from Lake Town?




Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Jan 19 2013, 4:18pm

Post #5 of 29 (374 views)
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Gloin at Azanulbizar [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm pretty sure Gloin is at least at the last charge after Azog is injured, his red bushy hair is pretty distinctive (no helm), and I also saw a quick glimpse of Oin (again, by his hair). Balin and Dwalin are easier to spot, Dwalin was doing a lot of head-butting during the battle.

In the post-battle scene, Gloin is there again (down near the front left of the screen), as well as Dwalin, Balin and Thorin.There is a black-haired Dwarf that stands up behind Thorin and walks off to the right of the screen; he's carrying something that looks like a shovel? I keep thinking this is Bifur.

I don't know about the art and design book, I don't have a copy. I just know what I saw in the movie. I saw AUJ Thursday night and looked very carefully! It goes pretty quickly. I've shared this on a couple of other threads but never got much back whether or not other people saw the same thing.

There it is: dwarves are not heroes, but calculating folk with a great idea of the value of money; some are tricky and treacherous and pretty bad lots; some are not, but are decent enough people like Thorin and Company, if you don't expect too much.


painjoiker
Grey Havens


Jan 19 2013, 4:48pm

Post #6 of 29 (318 views)
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I only see Thorin, Dwalin and Balin, [In reply to] Can't Post

and I have the DVD screener just to look up all the details I see on this forum, and I can't see Oin or Gloin...
I see who you suppose is Bifur, and his hair is similar but the face doesn't look like William Kircher Unimpressed

Vocalist in the semi-progressive metal band Arctic Eclipse


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Jan 19 2013, 4:59pm

Post #7 of 29 (311 views)
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You're probably right, [In reply to] Can't Post

Maybe just wishful thinking on my part Wink.

I guess I'll have to wait for the DVD to look this up! Thanks for the feedback!

There it is: dwarves are not heroes, but calculating folk with a great idea of the value of money; some are tricky and treacherous and pretty bad lots; some are not, but are decent enough people like Thorin and Company, if you don't expect too much.


Briar
The Shire


Jan 19 2013, 5:43pm

Post #8 of 29 (297 views)
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Not just you! [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought I saw Gloin too, but maybe it was a dwarf with a similar design.


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Jan 19 2013, 5:52pm

Post #9 of 29 (317 views)
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Dwalin supposedly grew up with Thorin [In reply to] Can't Post

according to RA, not that you'd know that given how much of the Dwarves' back stories were left out of the film. But given that his older brother Balin was established as having lived in Erebor, it's safe to say Dwalin probably was familiar with the Lonely Mountain one way or the other.

I also believe I read somewhere that many of the Dwarves of the company don't really know each other prior to forming the Company, which would probably rule out Gloin, Oin, or others hailing from Erebor.

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


Arandir
Gondor


Jan 19 2013, 5:58pm

Post #10 of 29 (333 views)
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Here's an image of Azanulbizar and some dwarves [In reply to] Can't Post

I always thought that apart from Thorin, Dwalin and Balin, that the dwarf next to Dwalin is Oin and the one to the far right is Gloin - Image

I also did spot someone who looked like Bifur but can't find any relevant images to confirm or deny this.

'The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey' Review


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Jan 19 2013, 6:07pm

Post #11 of 29 (294 views)
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I think those are different Dwarves with similar designs... [In reply to] Can't Post

Half the Company being at Azanulbizar is cheesy, IMO. Also, most of the Dwarves looked like the didn't know who Thorin was until Balin related the story at the campsite.

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


Radagast-Aiwendil
Gondor


Jan 19 2013, 6:22pm

Post #12 of 29 (266 views)
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Ah I see them now, thanks Arandir! [In reply to] Can't Post

Even though I've seen the film three times everything just goes so quickly, especially when you're really trying to spot new things.

"These are Gundabad Wargs! They will outrun you!"

"THESE are Rhosgobel Rabbits! I'd like to see them try...."



Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Jan 19 2013, 6:35pm

Post #13 of 29 (266 views)
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I've seen this too, [In reply to] Can't Post

and that is partly where I got the idea they were Oin and Gloin, they're strategically placed near Thorin. You can what looks like a quick glimpse of Gloin (again with the red hair!) fighting before Thror is killed. Also, they are not wearing helms to cover their hair (same with Balin, Dwalin and Thorin).

I wonder who the Dwarf is in the aftermath scene, who walks out behind (I thought from behind Thorin, but possibly Balin?). It looks a little like William Kircher's nose (lol), but Bifur has prosthetics on his nose. Or it could be Oin. Again, as you say, nothing to really back any of this up. I wish there was someone that would be willing to answer these critical questions!

Nerds rule Tongue

There it is: dwarves are not heroes, but calculating folk with a great idea of the value of money; some are tricky and treacherous and pretty bad lots; some are not, but are decent enough people like Thorin and Company, if you don't expect too much.


(This post was edited by Aragalen the Green on Jan 19 2013, 6:43pm)


TheWhiteRider
Bree


Jan 19 2013, 7:06pm

Post #14 of 29 (271 views)
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Only Thorin, Balin and Dwalin were at azanulbizar [In reply to] Can't Post

Graham Mctavish (Dwalin) himself said so on his twitter in response to a question


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Jan 19 2013, 7:09pm

Post #15 of 29 (250 views)
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Oh, thanks! [In reply to] Can't Post

That's good to know. I should really check out this "twitter" thing.

There it is: dwarves are not heroes, but calculating folk with a great idea of the value of money; some are tricky and treacherous and pretty bad lots; some are not, but are decent enough people like Thorin and Company, if you don't expect too much.


Arandir
Gondor


Jan 19 2013, 7:15pm

Post #16 of 29 (250 views)
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I do believe that it's Gloin (at least) ... [In reply to] Can't Post

especially when Balin states that there was no victory or feast and there's a wide shot of the battlefield and a lone dwarf sitting down - it really reminds me of Gloin! Smile

Also, the one who I think is Bifur is that dwarf who's holding a spade (?) behind Balin and Dwalin as they gently headbutt each other ...

'The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey' Review


Kimtc
Rohan

Jan 19 2013, 7:18pm

Post #17 of 29 (249 views)
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Glad someone went to the source. [In reply to] Can't Post

We could have been working in circles on this in perpetuity. Which may in fact be the definition of a discussion thread.


In Reply To
Graham Mctavish (Dwalin) himself said so on his twitter in response to a question



Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Jan 19 2013, 7:23pm

Post #18 of 29 (234 views)
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Exactly the same here. [In reply to] Can't Post

This is what I saw as well. However, Graham McTavish says otherwise?...

There it is: dwarves are not heroes, but calculating folk with a great idea of the value of money; some are tricky and treacherous and pretty bad lots; some are not, but are decent enough people like Thorin and Company, if you don't expect too much.


TheWhiteRider
Bree


Jan 19 2013, 7:24pm

Post #19 of 29 (236 views)
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You should [In reply to] Can't Post

He is very active on twitter, always answering questions asked by fans: https://twitter.com/grahammctavish


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Jan 19 2013, 7:25pm

Post #20 of 29 (236 views)
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Thanks again! [In reply to] Can't Post

I went to the site...I thought one needed a cell phone for Twitter!

Some of the questions are pretty funny--and so are his answers!

There it is: dwarves are not heroes, but calculating folk with a great idea of the value of money; some are tricky and treacherous and pretty bad lots; some are not, but are decent enough people like Thorin and Company, if you don't expect too much.


(This post was edited by Aragalen the Green on Jan 19 2013, 7:34pm)


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Jan 19 2013, 8:03pm

Post #21 of 29 (220 views)
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The seemed pretty obvious anyway... [In reply to] Can't Post

The characters that people were holding up as Gloin, Oin, Bifur ETC looked only VERY marginally like them. Young Balin & Dwalin are much closer to the characters they become later on.

Reverse shades of the post-TTT teaser days when people were arguing on whether or not that really was Haldir on the Helm's Deep battlements.

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!

(This post was edited by Captain Salt on Jan 19 2013, 8:04pm)


TheSexyBeard
Lorien

Jan 19 2013, 10:45pm

Post #22 of 29 (201 views)
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Seen that as well [In reply to] Can't Post

But yeah it seems only Thorin, Balin and Dwalin were a Azanulibizar. I think Gloin may have got a mention that he was the battle in the ROTK appendices though.

I think it's possible though that Oin and Gloin are from Erebor though. Maybe there will something in the extended versions about who if from Erebor. Dwalin must be despite us not seeing him in the prorogue.

Yes, my username is terrible.


Hamfast of Gamwich
Rivendell


Jan 19 2013, 11:52pm

Post #23 of 29 (184 views)
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Bifur [In reply to] Can't Post

Aren't Bifur, Bofur and Bombur supposed to be Blue Mountain dwarves? That would kind of rule them out of Azanulbizar wouldn't it?


Rostron2
Gondor


Jan 20 2013, 12:24am

Post #24 of 29 (176 views)
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It's a bit too bad [In reply to] Can't Post

That we don't have birthdays for all the dwarves from the Appendixes. That might answer a few questions.


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Jan 23 2013, 4:34pm

Post #25 of 29 (84 views)
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Graham McTavish [In reply to] Can't Post

Yup, confirmed again--someone just asked him again! He says only Dwalin, Balin and Thorin were at the Battle.

There it is: dwarves are not heroes, but calculating folk with a great idea of the value of money; some are tricky and treacherous and pretty bad lots; some are not, but are decent enough people like Thorin and Company, if you don't expect too much.

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