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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The continuing saga of Geeky Observations
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Magpie
Immortal


Jan 13 2013, 1:13am

Post #1 of 49 (1512 views)
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The continuing saga of Geeky Observations Can't Post

I had a few observations I made note of in my last viewing and since the previous thread is now on page 4, I thought it was worth starting a new one with links to all previous discussions.

Dec 29, Rostron2: Favorite Small Details

Jan 1, Roheryn: Some geeky (or otherwise) observations, and questions that need answering

Jan 4, Roheryn: A few more Ro-thoughts-and-observations

Jan 8, grammaboodawg: My Geeky Observations... it's a start :)

If I missed any, let me know.

I'm going to post mine in a reply.


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SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jan 13 2013, 1:30am

Post #2 of 49 (861 views)
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A few more links [In reply to] Can't Post

To threads containing geeky observations:

By Loresilme: Some more geeky observations

By Azaghâl: The (not so) unique dwarven weaponry and Azanulbizar, and some weaponry observations in general.

By gramma: **The Hobbit Geeky Observation Lists** call for contributions!!

By you (Magpie): Entertainment Weekly Hobbit cover

By Malickfan: Anyone else noticed all the links between the different cast members?

By Mooseboy018: connections, parallels, and other fun details

All I did was follow Gramma around to all the places she collected geeky observations from.


(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Jan 13 2013, 1:31am)


Magpie
Immortal


Jan 13 2013, 2:42am

Post #3 of 49 (894 views)
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My observations [In reply to] Can't Post

so... caveat. I've been trying to follow the previous threads of 'geeky observations' but I haven't had the time to follow ardently. I won't repeat anything I've noted or I've seen someone else note before... but that doesn't mean that something I include hasn't been noted before. :-)

Now let me decipher the notes I wrote in the dark!

(and thanks to IncredibleSmaug for their transcript!)

This was the third time I'd seen the movie. And some of these are ones I'd noticed from the first viewing. Others were new to this third viewing.

When Bilbo is startled after dealing with Gandalf and the Good Mornings, he ducks to the side of the door (inside) just like he does in FOTR EE when the SBs come knocking. I'd noticed that from the trailer and commented on it. But this time, I got this strong sense of the 'startle' action of his as being 'rabbity.' I swear, he even wiggled his nose at one point. And then I remembered that there is some longstanding, vague connection between rabbits and Hobbits. This is from a very old conversation I had and I can't remember any details but I really wondered if PJ was going for a bit of a rabbity look. I think they might have enhanced his nose to give it a little upturn and the ears have been redesigned since LOTR and they look more animal-like to me. I wonder if these were cuing into Bilbo's very timid natures at the beginning of this story. I think even the act of fainting is a bit like a timid-animal. I'm not sure if rabbits faint when threatened but other animals do... or feign fainting. :-)

I can't stop watching Bifur and others have noted times when he's just not connecting normally with others around him. I love how he stands up first when Thorin sings (which has been noted before) which tells me he is still functioning on a deep instinctual level and the singing and/or that particular song really calls to him. He also seems to fight just fine - although I haven't been able to track him in the fight scenes. My observation that I'm not sure has been made is that all during the meeting at Bilbo's table, every Dwarf is fairly - or very - attentive to Thorin. But Bifur never looks at him or anyone else. He just sits there staring blankly in front of him.

I like to notice similar scenes or lines between movies (I created a whole list on another forum for what I called 'Echoes and Foreshadowings in the LOTR movies). One of these is Gandalf getting all blown up and wizardry imposing with the Dwarves at Bag End:
Gandalf: “Enough! If I say Bilbo Baggins is a burglar, then a burglar he is.”

like he did in FOTR when Bilbo was fussing about the Ring with him.

That sketch of Bullroarer Took in Bag End looks really familiar to me. Was it in Bag End during LOTR? Or have we seen it somewhere else (not necessarily connected with the movies).

This exchange in AUJ
Bilbo: “Can you promise that I will come back?”

Gandalf: “No. And if you do, you will not be the same."

reminded me a lot of this one in FOTR:
Frodo: But it cannot stay in the Shire!

Gandalf: No! (More softly) No, it can't.

I think it was the way it was shot and the intonation the actors give their lines. I think the two scenes are setting up similar circumstances, as well. Hobbit is realizing what might lie ahead and Gandalf knows what lies ahead.

Radagast's House - I would have expected this to be all full of items from nature and I was paying close attention to the background to see what he had. He had, as far as I could tell, no items from nature (other than the animals). They were all potion jars and equipment for making potions. I saw two different retorts which is a device used for distillation or dry distillation of substances. Here's a crop of it from this image.


One of my favorite lines from LOTR is this one:
`In one thing you have not changed, dear friend,'said Aragorn: `You still speak in riddles.'
`What? In riddles?' said Gandalf. `No! For I was talking aloud to myself. A habit of the old: They choose the wisest person present to speak to; the long explanations needed by the young are wearying.'(The Two Towers, book 1, chapter 5, "The White Rider".)

And I enjoyed the twist they gave it in AUJ when Thorin and Gandalf are butting heads and Gandalf storms off:
Bilbo: “Everything alright? Gandalf, where are you going?”

Gandalf: “To seek the company of the only one around here who’s got any sense.”

Bilbo: “Who’s that?”

Gandalf: “Myself, Mr. Baggins! I’ve had enough of dwarves for one day.”


This exchange:
Thorin: “Do you think the Elves will give our quest their blessing? They will try to stop us.”

Gandalf: “Of course they will. But we have questions that need to be answered. If we are to be successful, this will need to be handled with tact and respect and no small degree of charm. Which is why you will leave the talking to me.”

...reminded me of the similar advice Gandalf gave to Pippin when entering Minas Tirith to meet with Denethor.

The whole argument about whether Sauron was back reminded me a LOT of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix. :-)

Saruman saying that Radagast was suffering from an excessive consumption of mushrooms was a nod to his comment about Gandalf's love the Hobbit pipeweed dulling his mind.

The heroic use of the Misty Mountain theme (or whatever is being called) while the Company walked along the crest of a mountain ridge was a nod to the Fellowship walking over the crest of a ridge to a heroic version of the Fellowship theme.

Balin's line, “This is no thunderstorm; it’s a thunder battle!” reminded me of Boromir's line, "This is no mine, it’s a tomb!". Both have just realized the situation they're in is more dire than they thought.

When the Dwarves leave Rivendell, Thorin says, "Be on your guard; we’re about to step over the edge of the Wild." which reminded me of Sam when he was about to step one foot further than he'd ever been before. "If take one more step, it’ll be the farthest away from home I’ve ever been." I know that Thorin is nothing like Sam but each statement is using a metaphor of 'stepping' past a boundary beyond which is the unknown.

When Gollum can't answer the last riddle he becomes peeved and says, "What has it got in its pocketses?!" Bilbo says, "That’s no concern of yours. You lost." and Gollum echoes, "Lost? Lost? Lost?" as if he can't believe he lost the game. I immediately thought of Gollum's song when 'Gollum' sings, first, "We are lost, we can never go home." and then (presumably to Frodo) "You are lost. You can never go home."

Then he realizes he doesn't have the ring and he cries, "Lost! Curse us and crush us, my precious is lost!"

I liked how first the word 'lost' is used for the game... but then quickly switches to the Ring. And I don't know if there was any attempt to tie it into the song from TTT but I noticed it.

But as the movie goes on, I'm becoming aware that the word "lost' is being used a lot in regards to Bilbo:
[Dwalin:] “I thought we’d lost our burglar.”

[Thorin:] “He’s been lost ever since he left home. He should never have come. He has no place amongst us. Dwalin!”

----

[Bilbo:] “I don’t want any trouble, do you understand? Just show me the way to get out of here, and I’ll be on my way.”

[Gollum:] “Why, is it lost?”

[Bilbo:] “Yes, yes, and I want to get unlost as soon as possible.”

----

[Gandalf:] “Five, six, seven, eight...Bifur, Bofur...that’s ten...Fili, Kili...that’s twelve...and Bombur - that makes thirteen. Where’s Bilbo? Where is our Hobbit? WHERE IS OUR HOBBIT?”

[Dwalin:] “Curse the the halfling! Now he’s lost?!”


I'm not sure it means anything but it's shiny so I picked it up.



and finally, I really liked the 3D effect used at the end of the battle at Moria when they were fading out of and into various little vignettes. It was very clever.


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Magpie
Immortal


Jan 13 2013, 2:43am

Post #4 of 49 (790 views)
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Thanks. [In reply to] Can't Post

I hope if this thread gets reposted down the road... like the review threads... that someone picks up all those links for the new thread starter.


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Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Jan 13 2013, 3:07am

Post #5 of 49 (790 views)
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Thank you for the observations, and the wonderful links! [In reply to] Can't Post

It is enjoyable to read through these other threads!

Bifur: I noticed that about Bifur too. I remember Bifur is sitting a chair in Bag-End, in the background--when Bilbo is recovering from his faint? Bombur walks by and offers him some food, and another Dwarf--Dwalin? also walks past him. Bifur just sits there looking rather blankly. I thought that Bifur was one of the Dwarves left on the battlefield after the battle of Azanulbizar, although I didn't see an axe in his head at that point, the hair looked similar. I could be mistaken, however it could explain that fact that Bifur has never recovered, at least mentally. He does stab either the Warg and/or the Orc after the Warg chase scene when they are spotted; he pulls the blade out to run after the others.

Radagast's house: I had thought I saw some dried herbs hanging up, but perhaps am mistaken?

Thank you again!

" Well well!", said a voice. "Just look! Bilbo the hobbit on a pony, my dear! Isn't it delicious!"
"Most astonishing wonderful!"


Starling
Half-elven


Jan 13 2013, 3:26am

Post #6 of 49 (804 views)
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"I'm not sure it means anything but it's shiny so I picked it up." [In reply to] Can't Post

I wouldn't expect anything less. Smile
That was a good read. I liked your comments about the 'lost' concept, and will be interested to see where that goes.


ryouko
Lorien

Jan 13 2013, 3:30am

Post #7 of 49 (802 views)
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movie link [In reply to] Can't Post

I noticed some of those links myself.

Bullroarer does look familiar, but I can't place where.

And yes, Bilbo's nose did twitch when he was hiding from Gandalf. I noticed it the first time, and I notice it every time. I, myself, thought it was rather rabbit-like. ^_^

I read on another site a comment that I didn't notice, but I'll have to check. This person said that when Bilbo opens the door, Fili has an open, friendly look, while Kili looks to be judging Bilbo, even giving him a once over while they introduce themselves. Anyone else notice this? I notice that he doesn't look happy, but after they bow, he smiles at Bilbo. Not sure what to make of it.


Loresilme
Valinor


Jan 13 2013, 1:37pm

Post #8 of 49 (662 views)
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I liked that bit -- I could picture them [In reply to] Can't Post

sharing laughs or jokes between them along the way there, right up to the point when they get to Bilbo's door, and then trying hard to quickly look serious and grown-up... maybe thinking Thorin's inside already. So Kili puts on his serious face, but Fili just can't manage it in time Smile.


Loresilme
Valinor


Jan 13 2013, 2:05pm

Post #9 of 49 (647 views)
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Rabbit-y [In reply to] Can't Post

Very interesting observation about the rabbit-y nuances to Bilbo's character at the beginning. Originally I thought the nose-twitch was in relation to Bilbo's 'reaction' to horse hair and need for a handkerchief later on. But perhaps it is more of a rabbit-like twitch, a part of his personality that's more pronounced in the first part of his life before he's had much contact with the outside world, and then slowly fades over the years after he spends more time with elves and dwarves and men.

Also it's interesting how Saruman asserts that Radagast's mind is affected by mushrooms, then later in FOTR that Gandalf's mind is affected by pipeweed, when it ultimately turns out that it's Saruman's mind that's really been corrupted.


The Prancing Pony
Rivendell

Jan 13 2013, 2:43pm

Post #10 of 49 (645 views)
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Becoming unlost [In reply to] Can't Post

You've made some interesting observations concerning the reoccurence of being 'lost'.
Especially when you look at Thorin repeatedly calling Bilbo lost, while Bilbo is trying to "get unlost as soon as possible" when he is in Gollum's cave. So maybe in the end he found himself 'unlost' in more than one way, by finally being truely accepted into the company.

"If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world."


Elenorflower
Gondor


Jan 13 2013, 3:09pm

Post #11 of 49 (637 views)
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probably this has been mentioned lots before [In reply to] Can't Post

but I noticed Thorin wearing the Mithril shirt during the battle of Azicantspellit.


Simon
Rivendell

Jan 13 2013, 4:01pm

Post #12 of 49 (612 views)
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Good observations! [In reply to] Can't Post

"I like to notice similar scenes or lines between movies (I created a whole list on another forum for what I called 'Echoes and Foreshadowings in the LOTR movies). One of these is Gandalf getting all blown up and wizardry imposing with the Dwarves at Bag End:
Gandalf: “Enough! If I say Bilbo Baggins is a burglar, then a burglar he is.”

like he did in FOTR when Bilbo was fussing about the Ring with him."

I love this moment because it demonstrate that he is the most powerful and imposing character of the group. Just a moment before...when Bilbo try to calm down the dwarves without success, Thorin get up with is powerful speech to over shadow and block the little hobbit. But when Gandalf speak up his mind about Bilbo he overshadow all the place and the dwarves and even Thorin look very small at this moment.



Magpie
Immortal


Jan 13 2013, 4:19pm

Post #13 of 49 (607 views)
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"Azicantspellit" .... lol // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


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ryouko
Lorien

Jan 13 2013, 8:19pm

Post #14 of 49 (571 views)
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5th viewing [In reply to] Can't Post

Just got back and found a couple more things to add.

At Bag End, all the Dwarves have tankards, with the exception of Dori who has a clay goblet. You see him sip from it at one point.

When Bilbo and the Goblin fall into the depths, you see Bilbo grab a dangling rope. You hear the "vreet" as his hand slides down it. Though, I noticed that he didn't have rope-burn on his hand later. Perhaps the rope was slimy?

when the Dwarves are throwing weapons to each other in Goblin Town, someone throws a war hammer to Ori. He catches it, but the momentum causes him to bend slightly backwards and the hammer hits the goblin behind him. Looks like that same backwards-over-the-head trick worked later when he was being chased by the warg.

Again, in Goblin Town, after the Great Goblin points at Ori, saying he'll start with the youngest, you don't get to see his brothers' reactions. Yet, later, when you briefly see the group shots, Dori and Nori are standing in front of Ori. I would have loved a brief moment of the brothers putting themselves between their baby brother and the Great Goblin just before Thorin steps forward. Well, there's hope for the EE. ^_^

BTW, IMAX is pretty cool. First time I ever saw an actual movie in that format. ^_^


malla
Bree


Jan 13 2013, 10:17pm

Post #15 of 49 (534 views)
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Glad you enjoyed the IMAX [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
When Bilbo and the Goblin fall into the depths, you see Bilbo grab a dangling rope. You hear the "vreet" as his hand slides down it. Though, I noticed that he didn't have rope-burn on his hand later. Perhaps the rope was slimy?



He actually doesn't slide down the rope....but does attempt to grab it...but sadly just hits the end as he is tumbling. Hence, no rope burn. Besides...if he had caught the rope....we wouldn't have our story....would we precious ?

Tenna' ento lye omenta,
Malla


ryouko
Lorien

Jan 13 2013, 10:34pm

Post #16 of 49 (532 views)
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My impression [In reply to] Can't Post

was that he did grab it, but he was falling too fast to be able to hold it(and there's being no knot at the end to stop him sliding off the rope). And I'm sure that, twice now, I've heard the "vreet" of a rope sliding through a hand. If he didn't grab the rope, then what was the "vreet" sound? Crazy


Eleniel
Tol Eressea


Jan 13 2013, 10:46pm

Post #17 of 49 (526 views)
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I thought he did, too... [In reply to] Can't Post

...at least enough to slow hs momentum a little before he had to let go! I thought that was PJ's way of explaining how Bilbo survived the fall better than the goblin (along with landing on the soft fungi, of course!)


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort






malla
Bree


Jan 14 2013, 12:31am

Post #18 of 49 (518 views)
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I'll have to watch it again tomorrow.... [In reply to] Can't Post

.....when I go back again....

but I swear that each time I've watched it ...it appeared that he never really got a hold on the rope. When he tumbled off the edge with the goblin hanging onto his neck, they start to fall. The goblin lets go, they start to bounce off the stone walls, Bilbo looses grip on Sting, bumps into the rope but never gets a hold on it and they all continue tumbling down and out of sight. I hear cries and scraping as Bilbo bounces down along the rock walls...the goblin doing the same...and Sting clanging and pinging as it hits the rocks on the way down. But it all happens in a second or two...really hard to tell.

Gee...going through withdrawal....didn't go to the theater today...Unsure *sigh My theater is calling me....come back for # 23....come back for # 23.....lol
....*crossing my fingers, but it looks like I'm going to pass my goal of at least 31 times....yahooo!!

Tenna' ento lye omenta,
Malla

(This post was edited by malla on Jan 14 2013, 12:40am)


ryouko
Lorien

Jan 14 2013, 12:46am

Post #19 of 49 (516 views)
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Yup [In reply to] Can't Post

Guess I'll have to go back and watch it again myself. *snaps finger* oh darn.... Wink


malla
Bree


Jan 14 2013, 12:49am

Post #20 of 49 (510 views)
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hope I didn't.... [In reply to] Can't Post

....just jinx myself by saying that....lol...
...I'll still keep fingers crossed that I can reach 31 and I'll see if I can go beyond my original goal.

Tenna' ento lye omenta,
Malla


malla
Bree


Jan 14 2013, 12:56am

Post #21 of 49 (507 views)
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lol [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Guess I'll have to go back and watch it again myself. *snaps finger* oh darn....



You needed another excuse to go again didn't you....LOL...

I'm curious....do all of your spouses/partners/parents/etc. understand our obsession with these movies??? My husband just shakes his head and says "you're going to see it again???" Of course this comes from a man who can't sit through a 30 minute TV show without flipping channels with a remote or getting up to grab a cup of coffee....


Tenna' ento lye omenta,
Malla


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Jan 14 2013, 1:06am

Post #22 of 49 (514 views)
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Funny you should ask... [In reply to] Can't Post

My husband does the same thing--"you people are so obsessed!". Then he sits down to watch endless Star Trek videos, or listens to his Star Wars soundtracks. He claims both are so much better because there are still books being written (he has a collection of hundreds--all apocryphal I might add Tongue)

I say quality over quantity!

" Well well!", said a voice. "Just look! Bilbo the hobbit on a pony, my dear! Isn't it delicious!"
"Most astonishing wonderful!"


ryouko
Lorien

Jan 14 2013, 1:32am

Post #23 of 49 (513 views)
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Happily Single [In reply to] Can't Post

So I don't have to answer to anyone. But I do get the "you're going again" from my office mate and my manager.

And my best friend's wife rolled her eyes when I mentioned seeing it a third time(a couple weeks back). But my best friend commented, "This is coming from the woman who's obsessed with sparkly vampires". Laugh


malla
Bree


Jan 14 2013, 1:37am

Post #24 of 49 (513 views)
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husband's comments [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, I have to admit that I am also a Star Wars Geek and will admit that my collection of SW stuff has taken over a bit of the house.....but tell your hubby that if it wasn't for LOTR....SW probably wouldn't be here. Let's face it...George took the story of good vs evil... all different kinds of creatures... wizards (Jedi Masters)....bad guys with evil masters....etc....and put them in outer space instead of Middle Earth.Smile

Tenna' ento lye omenta,
Malla


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jan 14 2013, 2:05am

Post #25 of 49 (534 views)
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The first person Thorin describes as "lost," is himself [In reply to] Can't Post

When he arrives late to the unexpected party he says he got lost twice on the way.

Gollum lost the Ring but Bilbo saw it happen (in the movie)... it is true that by not returning it to him, that he stole it.

Yeah I saw it again (a friend really wanted to go and needed an interpreter). I saw it in IMAX 3D and the most of the CGI looked more convincing than it did in 2D (perhaps because of the higher K projection?)

Regarding Gramma's list:

I am convinced that the helmet Frodo pulls out of Bilbo's chest is not of the same type that the prologue (or even flashback) dwarves wear, as Silverlode suggested here. To me, it is an Uruk-hai helmet or it is nothing. Besides, it is made to fit someone human size or larger.

As for the continuity between the shot of Frodo holding the helmet cut to Bilbo then back to Frodo holding a horn: during the shot of Bilbo we hear rummaging SFX suggesting Frodo put down the helmet and picked something else up while the camera was on Bilbo.

The sword on the wall looked even more like Strider's Ranger Sword this time around. The thing is, like the Ukuk helm, Strider's sword shouldn't have yet been in Bilbo's possession.

Finally, Bolg can be seen clearly fighting a young, mohawk-wearing Dwalin across a couple shots during the Thorin/Moria flashback. His screen time comes after Azog is wounded, though I am sure he can be glimpsed briefly before Azog is wounded as well.

ETA: Oh and Azog reminds me of the lead baddie from I Am Legend. (He was most improved in 3D btw).


(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Jan 14 2013, 2:15am)

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