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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Hobbit - AUJ on the 'great film scale'

Rostron2
Gondor


Jan 12 2013, 12:40am

Post #1 of 16 (772 views)
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The Hobbit - AUJ on the 'great film scale' Can't Post

The movie experience is unique to each person, and it's tempered by their likes and dislikes. It's easy to tell films apart these days. Some films are just winners from the beginning, and I typically grade some of my films I've seen on whether it hits some or many of these Ten Signs: I noted where Hobbit has for me.

1. You got chills from an opening sequence, and these persist throughout the film. YES

2. It didn't insult your intelligence, in fact, you appreciated the fact that it took a few brain cells to keep up. PASS, but not a resounding yes
3. You forgot who the actor/actresses were and saw their characters. YES

4. You're still talking about the film after a reasonable amount of time. UH, YES

5. The audience around you was totally engaged and respectfully silent except where appropriate. YES
6. You learned something from the film, or developed a new interest. Not with AUJ, but LOTR did this

7. Months or years later, you can recall key scenes in detail, not just famous lines. Not much time has passed, but YES
8. If it's not a big box office smash, you lobby others to go see it. Pass

9. It inspires you in some part of your life. YES Tolkien inspired me to write
10. It's one of those films where you see it on TV, and regardless of where they are in the story, you start to watch it. YES, I expect I will :)


Bombadil
Half-elven


Jan 12 2013, 3:00am

Post #2 of 16 (301 views)
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Most excellent post! [In reply to] Can't Post

You take discussions here
to a much higher level.

You bow to no one.

Bomby


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jan 12 2013, 3:35am

Post #3 of 16 (277 views)
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Great list. And I agree entirely. [In reply to] Can't Post

The Lady and I have been discussing its greatness, and how we enjoy it more with every viewing, even though there are some revisions I deplore.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


morgul lord
Rivendell


Jan 12 2013, 4:27am

Post #4 of 16 (276 views)
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Maybe not QUITE as "great" as LOTR, but still pretty great! [In reply to] Can't Post

Also, it felt like an instant classic.


MasterOrc
Rivendell


Jan 12 2013, 5:29am

Post #5 of 16 (252 views)
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Great poster...... [In reply to] Can't Post

Always looks at the good things......or the little things that make a difference...


Retro315
Rivendell

Jan 12 2013, 7:11am

Post #6 of 16 (225 views)
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Interesting [In reply to] Can't Post

Let's see;

1. You got chills from an opening sequence, and these persist throughout the film. NO. Actually while I liked both openings, I didn't actually get that chill until Bilbo blew the smoke ring and "An Unexpected Journey" appeared. After that I was hooked. Smaug rocked, though.

2. It didn't insult your intelligence, in fact, you appreciated the fact that it took a few brain cells to keep up. NO because I knew the book too well.

3. You forgot who the actor/actresses were and saw their characters. YES. Absolutely.

4. You're still talking about the film after a reasonable amount of time. YES.

5. The audience around you was totally engaged and respectfully silent except where appropriate. YES.

6. You learned something from the film, or developed a new interest. YES. The Weta Workshop constantly teaches me things that I add to my own interests. Ditto fine actors.

7. Months or years later, you can recall key scenes in detail, not just famous lines. SAFE BET.

8. If it's not a big box office smash, you lobby others to go see it. CHECK. Actually some of the bad reviews had gotten to my friends who I know love LOTR (book and adaptation) and I insisted they see it when they could.

9. It inspires you in some part of your life. SURE.

10. It's one of those films where you see it on TV, and regardless of where they are in the story, you start to watch it. PASS. I don't watch television. But I will own it on day one of release.


herzogian
Bree

Jan 12 2013, 9:27am

Post #7 of 16 (233 views)
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The Great Film Scale [In reply to] Can't Post

1. You got chills from an opening sequence, and these persist throughout the film. A little bit.

2. It didn't insult your intelligence, in fact, you appreciated the fact that it took a few brain cells to keep up. Was a bit disapointed on this one. PJ seems to think you need a whole load of action scenes to keep the publics attention. No you dont!

3. You forgot who the actor/actresses were and saw their characters. Yes

4. You're still talking about the film after a reasonable amount of time. Well, yes. But this doesnt mean it was a good film. Just that it had a profound effect on you. But you could be talking about a very bad film for a long time too. :p


5. The audience around you was totally engaged and respectfully silent except where appropriate. First time yes. Second time no. Depends on when you go I think.

6. You learned something from the film, or developed a new interest. No, i learned to know Tolkien thanks to Fotr. Didnt realy learn other new things from AUJ. Maybe that HFR can be pretty but doesnt work always. And I saw the Office Uk for the first time thanks too Martin Freeman.

7. Months or years later, you can recall key scenes in detail, not just famous lines. Not much time has passed. Yes, but I have a very good visual memory.

8. If it's not a big box office smash, you lobby others to go see it. Just the ones I know like Tolkien. Dont care about Box Office.

9. It inspires you in some part of your life. AUJ, the movie, didnt inspire me.

10. It's one of those films where you see it on TV, and regardless of where they are in the story, you start to watch it. Yes, i probably will. But again, doenst prove its a good movie. Sometimes I watch 10 minutes of Jersey Shore before I realise what i'm doing. They call it the tv-brain-off-mode. But maybe thats a different thing. :p

Conclusion:For me AUJ isnt a great film, it doenst have that bit more. But its very enjoyable.


(This post was edited by herzogian on Jan 12 2013, 9:33am)


DanielLB
Immortal


Jan 12 2013, 10:22am

Post #8 of 16 (210 views)
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Yes to all .... and another one ... [In reply to] Can't Post

11. You see the film more than once! [;)

Although, I'd have to say no to this:


Quote
The audience around you was totally engaged and respectfully silent except where appropriate


I've had annoying people every time I've gone. From a lady with very young children at midnight, to someone using an e-cigarette for the entire 3 hours ... But that's there problem, not because the film is rubbish.


Elenorflower
Gondor


Jan 12 2013, 4:25pm

Post #9 of 16 (149 views)
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for me [In reply to] Can't Post

2. It didn't insult your intelligence, in fact, you appreciated the fact that it took a few brain cells to keep up. erm.. Azog.

3. You forgot who the actor/actresses were and saw their characters. Yes. apart from Cate Blanchett, she was far too wooden and actressy in this.


Azog
Bree


Jan 12 2013, 5:29pm

Post #10 of 16 (163 views)
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Interestingly after my first viewing [In reply to] Can't Post

I would have answered No to a lot of these,but I saw it again today and can't believe how much more I enjoyed it,now I answer yes to all of them,I even liked Azog this time round!


Pimmiko
Bree


Jan 12 2013, 7:24pm

Post #11 of 16 (130 views)
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Agree with all [In reply to] Can't Post

add 12 After first viewing you immediately know you have to see it again - and again and...YES

I don't recall any other film than LOTR films having that impact on me.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jan 12 2013, 9:16pm

Post #12 of 16 (127 views)
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Well. . . Eleven or twelve [In reply to] Can't Post

1. You got chills from an opening sequence, and these persist throughout the film. If by Opening sequence you mean from the moment Gandalf shows up and turns Bilbo's smokering into a butterfly . . . then YES. And in the Erebor sequence YES! And for the Far Misty Mountains Cold song God Yes!!!
2. It didn't insult your intelligence, in fact, you appreciated the fact that it took a few brain cells to keep up. I will go with Pass also. It passes the test, but may not excel. 3. You forgot who the actor/actresses were and saw their characters. They are so firmly set in my mind on their own, so a mix on this one, though all were superb.
4. You're still talking about the film after a reasonable amount of time. YES

5. The audience around you was totally engaged and respectfully silent except where appropriate. Yes.
6. You learned something from the film, or developed a new interest. No. What was there for me to learn? Half of us here are in the Stephen Colbert league/level or lore proficiency. lol
7. Months or years later, you can recall key scenes in detail, not just famous lines. Not much time has passed, but YES
8. If it's not a big box office smash, you lobby others to go see it. Well it is a reasonable smash, but still yes.

9. It inspires you in some part of your life. YES Tolkien inspired me to write
10. It's one of those films where you see it on TV, and regardless of where they are in the story, you start to watch it. YES, I expect I will :) 11) (ADDENDA) You go to see it multiple times, brining new friends and or relatives whenever possible. YES!


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Michelle Johnston
Lorien


Jan 13 2013, 9:25am

Post #13 of 16 (89 views)
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What is a great film - for me. [In reply to] Can't Post

I sense some relief that all though we do not care if it does well or not (because we actually do) and yet when I think of movies that fall into the categories you have described I think of :-

Shawshank Redemption - A quiet film to begin with, now a cult classic.

Ryans Daughter - roundly castigated on release.

or those that were immediately successful

Amadeus/Spartacus and Lion In Winter

at the heart of these movies are personal journeys that take place in a backdrop we believe in which we need to see the outcome of.

Right now I am gazing down on the Carrock and I really want to see what happens to Thorin and Bilbo next. Like those other films I really wanted to see it all the way through and right now I am only a third of a way through.

There is another connection and its with Ryans Daughter. When I saw that film I knew I had to go there it is so much of place and the same applies to these films. South West Ireland is utterly beautiful you can go to Slea Head visit the abandoned school house and climb up Mount Brandon where the village was built and the weather in that movie is all there. Indeed for a bonus you can go to South Africa and visit their sand dunes but Ireland is the real deal.

Although I live in Tolkiens England I have always wanted to visit New Zealand but the movies made it a given. Tomorrow I start with my third viewing at the Embassy here in Wellington and then on to Edoras, Isengard and the Earnslaw Burn which features as ..... So yes on that basis these films are great because they draw us in to their art and spur us on to see the world yield even more of its riches.

I tried to save the shire , and it has been but not for me.

(This post was edited by Michelle Johnston on Jan 13 2013, 9:26am)


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Jan 13 2013, 6:12pm

Post #14 of 16 (55 views)
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RYAN'S DAUGHTER is still castigated. [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Ryan's Daughter -- roundly castigated on release


Today it's usually considered one of David Lean's worst films. Consider the following quotes from various standard guides:

Leonard Maltin's Movie Guide: "'Simple love story blown up to gargantuan proportions ... Elaphantine production overpowers Robert Bolt's thin story, admittedly beautiful scenes dwarfing what plot there is".

Time Out Film Guide: "An awe-inspiring tedious lump of soggy romanticism ... much of the action centreing on clifftop and beach, where the characters tend to congregate either to have sex or to brood about not haing it, and where the wind and waves have a pathetically fallacious time of it ... Banal, utterly predictable, ludicrously overblown, it drags on interminably".

The New Biographical Dictionary of Film: "Ryan's Daughter may be as bad a film as any 'great' director ever made".

Halliwell's Film Guide is the kindest: "A modestly effective pastoral romantic melodrama, stretched on the rack of its director's meticulous film-making technique and unnecessarily big budget. A beautiful, impressive, well-staged and well acted film but not really four hours' worth of drama".

Finally, the opening sentence from John Simon's 1984 review of The Passage to India sticks in my head: "How nice to have David Lean back with us after 13 years of absence, which was bad enough, and Ryan's Daughter, which was worse".

They could all be wrong! I haven't seen the film myself. But the film's reputation is clear.

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Michelle Johnston
Lorien


Jan 13 2013, 8:58pm

Post #15 of 16 (42 views)
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An update [In reply to] Can't Post

Since the film's release on DVD, Ryan's Daughter has been reconsidered by many critics, now claimed by many to be an overlooked masterpiece, countering many of the criticisms such as its alleged "excessive scale". Other elements, like John Mills' caricature of 'the village idiot' (an Oscar-winning performance) have withstood the test of time less well.The film is still not as widely accepted as Lean's other epics and its critical reputation remains mixed at best. It stands out from his previous work, being characterized by a slower pace, more expansive and allegorical directing, with less dialogue than in previous films, though the film builds tension, albeit slowly.

The central criticism is the scale of the movie was to large for the basic material. When was there ever an inherant artistic logic between scale of presentation and base material think opera.

It was well known that David Lean had developed a particularly focused attitude towards the minutae of detail particularly on capturing certain weather conditions. He had made three hugely popular movies and the shoot had over run badly. Prior to its release there were whisperings of bloat and self indulgence - the knives were out before the movie was released - sound familiar.

I tried to save the shire , and it has been but not for me.


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Jan 13 2013, 9:46pm

Post #16 of 16 (75 views)
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Interesting. [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the update. I see that one critic and two directors (out of 1,201 voters) selected Ryan's Daughter as one of the ten greatest films of all time in Sight & Sound poll (which is conducted once every ten years). That is indeed higher than I would have expected, and better than Lean's Doctor Zhivago (two votes) and A Passage to India and The Bridge on the River Kwai (one vote each), while Lean's Great Expectations got the same number of votes as Ryan's Daughter.

Lawrence of Arabia, however, was selected by 31 voters, placing it solidly in the top 100, as opposed to the top 1,000 for Ryan's Daughter.

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<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
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