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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Why has Azog not aged ??
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TheWhiteRider
Bree


Jan 10 2013, 5:08pm

Post #1 of 42 (1114 views)
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Why has Azog not aged ?? Can't Post

He looks about the same as he is shown in the battle of Azanulbizar. Do orcs not age ??
From the promo pics of Bolg, it looks like as if Bolg is Azog's father. He looks much older than him with the huge beard and scarred face. Maybe Azog died in the battle and the necromancer resurrected him in his old body Shocked


DanielLB
Immortal


Jan 10 2013, 5:11pm

Post #2 of 42 (676 views)
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Because he's Halforcen ;-) [In reply to] Can't Post

In the book, Bolg died 140 years after Azog died, so they certainly can live for long periods of time. This can likely be linked to their origin, especially those that are descended from Elves.


Beren0nehanded
Bree


Jan 10 2013, 5:21pm

Post #3 of 42 (608 views)
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That makes me wonder . . . [In reply to] Can't Post

Are there any good discussions about Tolkien's orcs and their life spans and such here . . .

I bet if I wielded the search box in the reading room I would find something . . .

Don't be hasty.


DanielLB
Immortal


Jan 10 2013, 5:29pm

Post #4 of 42 (562 views)
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It certainly does! [In reply to] Can't Post

Here's one interesting discussion on whether Orcs are immortal. Google gives plenty of links too. It's not something I'm clued up on. I'd have to read up on it first to give any opinion.


Skaan
Lorien


Jan 10 2013, 5:34pm

Post #5 of 42 (588 views)
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Azog resurrected by the Necromancer [In reply to] Can't Post

I still believe Azog died from his wounds at the battle of Moria, and that it was the Necromancer who resurrected him. Wich also explains why he didn't seem older.


stoutfiles
Rohan


Jan 10 2013, 6:00pm

Post #6 of 42 (508 views)
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Orcs bred from corrupted elves are most likely immortal [In reply to] Can't Post

However, there is no definite confirmation on that.

To be fair, Thorin has barely aged. Some of his hair changed color. We aren't sure exactly how much time has passed in the movie universe.


Kassandros
Rohan


Jan 10 2013, 6:06pm

Post #7 of 42 (475 views)
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His hairline changed too. [In reply to] Can't Post

Or so I've heard from people who analyzed this closely.

And I thought we are sure? The movie says "60 years".

all we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us...


Ave Moria
Rivendell


Jan 10 2013, 6:10pm

Post #8 of 42 (462 views)
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Great skin care regimen [In reply to] Can't Post

Lotion Wink

-In the Darkness, a torch we hold-


Ave Moria
Rivendell


Jan 10 2013, 6:11pm

Post #9 of 42 (493 views)
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Good thought, and- [In reply to] Can't Post

What is the point of being a Necromancer if you don't actually RAISE anything or anyone from the dead?

The question is, who will it be?

-In the Darkness, a torch we hold-


Kassandros
Rohan


Jan 10 2013, 6:21pm

Post #10 of 42 (421 views)
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LOL // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

all we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us...


Kimtc
Rohan

Jan 10 2013, 6:30pm

Post #11 of 42 (447 views)
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Well, if you live mostly underground you don't get much sun [In reply to] Can't Post

But that pipe smoking will play havoc with your skin; he must keep it to a minimum.


TheWhiteRider
Bree


Jan 10 2013, 6:53pm

Post #12 of 42 (415 views)
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Well balin has noticably aged [In reply to] Can't Post

His hair have gone white since the battle..


Eruonen
Tol Eressea


Jan 10 2013, 6:57pm

Post #13 of 42 (478 views)
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I never liked that "attempted" origin story from JRRT. [In reply to] Can't Post

It raises too many questions that make the "elvish" origin untenable - immortality, breeding rates etc.

Another "attempted" origin was using men related to Pukelmen / Druadain etc.

JRRT never really came to a final source.

To me, the obvious answer was for Morgoth to immitate Aule and create beings in mockery of the First Born.
If Aule could come up with dwarves Morgoth could have come up with orcs/ goblins. Plus, because they would not have independent existence without Morgoth / Sauron they are more of the "robotic" beings required for those without free will. However, they could have been bred with humans etc. for added qualities.


Rane
Bree


Jan 10 2013, 7:03pm

Post #14 of 42 (409 views)
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That would be interesting [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Photobucket


Kimtc
Rohan

Jan 10 2013, 7:27pm

Post #15 of 42 (385 views)
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I wonder if the filmmakers think about this stuff the way we do [In reply to] Can't Post

Or they just do it and hope the audience accepts that orcs live a long time and don't look any worse than they already do. I'm serious about this. I know PJ, et. al. are up on the books, lore, etc., but there may just be some things they do without planning an explanation. I really don't know.


In Reply To
He looks about the same as he is shown in the battle of Azanulbizar. Do orcs not age ??
From the promo pics of Bolg, it looks like as if Bolg is Azog's father. He looks much older than him with the huge beard and scarred face. Maybe Azog died in the battle and the necromancer resurrected him in his old body Shocked



Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Gondor


Jan 10 2013, 7:28pm

Post #16 of 42 (388 views)
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If that's the case why... [In reply to] Can't Post

didn't Sauron also "resurrect" the "dead" left arm of Azog? If he can summon the dead (like the Nazgūl) why wasn't he able to summon a new arm? Tongue Btw this is a serious thought of mine!

"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."


Brandybuckled
Lorien


Jan 10 2013, 7:33pm

Post #17 of 42 (366 views)
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ah, yes... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Lotion Wink



"He was exfoliating Merry in orc-fashion, and his treatment worked swiftly."

NAArP: Not An Ardent purist since Arda was dented



dave_lf
Gondor

Jan 10 2013, 7:35pm

Post #18 of 42 (373 views)
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Same reason he doesn't make Sting glow // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


peace1993
Bree


Jan 10 2013, 7:47pm

Post #19 of 42 (382 views)
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Sting doesn't glow [In reply to] Can't Post

Forgive me if this sounds stupid but, why doesn't Sting glow when the group are attacked by Azog and co. at the end of the film.

Sam: Trust a Brandybuck and a Took.
Merry: What? That was just a detour, a shortcut.
Sam: Shortcut to what?
Pippin: Mushrooms!


Mooseboy018
Gondor


Jan 10 2013, 8:24pm

Post #20 of 42 (337 views)
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I'm pretty sure it does. [In reply to] Can't Post

It's just really faint compared to when it was glowing in the caves.


Lightice
Lorien

Jan 10 2013, 8:24pm

Post #21 of 42 (331 views)
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Because they were behind the black in those scenes [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Forgive me if this sounds stupid but, why doesn't Sting glow when the group are attacked by Azog and co. at the end of the film.


Basically, it seems to me that in these films Sting only glows when there are orcs literally in the same shot with it, save for very few, usually plot-related exceptions. Maybe the animators think its distracting otherwise, maybe they just plain-out forgot, like they did with Glamdring in the LotR-trilogy. With all the stuff to take care for, a few shots of a sword are easy to miss. Still, I hope that they fix these moments for the extended edition.


stoutfiles
Rohan


Jan 10 2013, 8:35pm

Post #22 of 42 (321 views)
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60 years before LOTR [In reply to] Can't Post

The events of Thorin's life (Smaug, first battle with Azog) have no set movie timeline. These happened long before The Hobbit, but not sure how long.


dave_lf
Gondor

Jan 10 2013, 8:44pm

Post #23 of 42 (308 views)
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Sort of [In reply to] Can't Post

It glows when he fights Fimbul, but not when he brandishes it at Azog a moment later. I watched carefully for this last time.


Rostron2
Gondor


Jan 10 2013, 9:49pm

Post #24 of 42 (260 views)
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Orcs are certainly long lived [In reply to] Can't Post

Tolkien gives a clue about this in the conversations between Shagrat and Gorbag in LOTR (book) They talk about the 'good old days' when there were 'no bosses'. Implication that at the very least they have lived long enough to be around before Sauron's return. Maybe even as long as the Second Age. I need to re-read that section again.


pettytyrant101
Lorien


Jan 10 2013, 10:20pm

Post #25 of 42 (263 views)
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on the Necromancer name [In reply to] Can't Post

I always thought the name most likely came about by the association of the Ring-wraiths to Dol-Guldur- the undead servants as far as any people living nearby would think.
Also Saurons mere presence back in the world seems to stir up things like wights, also undead.
I never saw it as him actually raising up dead bodies to get the name, otherwise he could just resurrect orcs as they died on the Pelennor.

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