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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
"It abandoned Gollum"

Loresilme
Valinor


Jan 8 2013, 5:59pm

Post #1 of 24 (1246 views)
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"It abandoned Gollum" Can't Post

I have been wondering if the moment in which the Ring decides to separate itself from Gollum as depicted in AUJ might put a new twist on the words from the FOTR prologue.

"…and the Ring of Power perceived, its time had now come." -- yes, the Ring has been awakened by the growing darkness over the world, but does it choose this particular moment to make its move because it suddenly senses nearby the power of the ancient Elvish blade? Can it sense that power, without knowing yet whether it emanates from a person or an object? And then,
"But something happened then the Ring did not intend" -- because it would be expected that such power would be from a powerful, warlike person or creature, or one wielding an object with that power, in either case, a being whose will or ambition could be corrupted by the Ring - but instead it is carried by a small, peace-loving Hobbit?


It's still consistent with the FOTR prologue, just might add another dimension to it.

Thoughts?


Kimtc
Rohan

Jan 8 2013, 6:01pm

Post #2 of 24 (635 views)
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Interesting observation [In reply to] Can't Post

One would not expect a Hobbit to have that sword.


Rostron2
Gondor


Jan 8 2013, 6:05pm

Post #3 of 24 (606 views)
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Makes perfect sense to me [In reply to] Can't Post

It certainly could have such awareness, since it was magically forged, like Sting was. However, since the Ring can't see with eyes, it made a serious miscalculation!

Very good theory.

"Ahhh, an elf is coming, I'll just nip off and corrupt him and ... what the ##$%^&*?"


Rane
Bree


Jan 8 2013, 6:06pm

Post #4 of 24 (601 views)
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I don't think anyone would expect a Hobbit in general [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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DanielLB
Immortal


Jan 8 2013, 6:13pm

Post #5 of 24 (604 views)
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Perhaps something else was at work? [In reply to] Can't Post

From FOTR:


Quote
"What, just in time to meet Bilbo?" said Frodo. "Wouldn't an Orc have suited it better?"
"It is no laughing matter," said Gandalf. "Not for you. It was the strangest event in the whole history of the Ring so far: Bilbo's arrival just at that time, and putting his hand on it, blindly, in the dark.
There was more than one power at work, Frodo. The Ring was trying to get back to its master. It had slipped from Isildur's hand and betrayed him; then when a chance came it caught poor Deal, and he was murdered; and after that Gollum, and it had devoured him. It could make no further use of him: he was too small and mean; and as long as it stayed with him he would never leave his deep pool again. So now, when its master was awake once more and sending out his dark thought from Mirkwood, it abandoned Gollum. Only to be picked up by the most unlikely person imaginable: Bilbo from the Shire!
Behind that there was something else at work, beyond any design of the Ring-maker. I can put it no plainer than by saying that Bilbo was meant to find the Ring, and not by its maker. In which case you also were meant to have it. And that maybe an encouraging thought.


It might have nothing to do with Sting. It's more likely that something else was at work, perhaps intervention from the Valar (or even higher up)? Was it the Ring decided to leave? The quote suggests it wasn't the only force at play.


(This post was edited by DanielLB on Jan 8 2013, 6:22pm)


Arandir
Gondor


Jan 8 2013, 6:20pm

Post #6 of 24 (556 views)
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I would say it was from Higher Up [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
perhaps intervention from the Valar?

The Valar wouldn't have intervened on the people and actions of Middle-Earth.

Fate is a far more stronger meaning within Tolkien's world - Fate which is ultimately Iluvatar's plan of things.

'The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey' Review


HiddenSpring
Lorien

Jan 8 2013, 7:07pm

Post #7 of 24 (512 views)
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That is a brilliant interpretation [In reply to] Can't Post

And the "others forces at work" were present when Gandalf's intuition told him to pick Bilbo Baggins.


stoutfiles
Rohan


Jan 8 2013, 8:13pm

Post #8 of 24 (453 views)
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Interesting [In reply to] Can't Post

But I believe the Ring sensed a creature that could get it out of this cave; Gollum was never going to leave, and if Gollum did die it might be lost down there forever.

It doesn't matter who has it, powerful or not, it only wants to get back to its master. Getting out of the cave was the goal. If it was about power it would have abandoned Bilbo in the BO5A for a stronger creature when he was knocked out.


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Jan 8 2013, 10:05pm

Post #9 of 24 (382 views)
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If it was only about getting out of the cave, [In reply to] Can't Post

Then an orc or goblin would have suited better. Except Gollum kept eating the goblins.

" Well well!", said a voice. "Just look! Bilbo the hobbit on a pony, my dear! Isn't it delicious!"
"Most astonishing wonderful!"


dungolfin
The Shire

Jan 9 2013, 12:09am

Post #10 of 24 (324 views)
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I think it's more likely... [In reply to] Can't Post

That the ring had felt the growing presence of Sauron rather than any elf influence. That this prompted it to leave Gollum in order to be found by someone, anyone. What would it matter as far as the ring is concerned? It would corrupt the wearer eventually and be found by the Nazgul. The rings motivation was to get moving again.


stoutfiles
Rohan


Jan 9 2013, 1:17am

Post #11 of 24 (296 views)
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Perhaps it tried [In reply to] Can't Post

And then Gollum would kill the goblin and reclaim it. The Ring just wanted out, it didn't matter who Bilbo was or wasn't.


sevilodorf
Gondor


Jan 9 2013, 1:29am

Post #12 of 24 (295 views)
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Something else ... [In reply to] Can't Post

From the Silmarillion

Illuvatar -- "And thou, Melkor, say see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attempth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined."

Though evil attempts to take over it will itself be turned to good.... though the turning may not be easy for all involved....

Fourth Age Adventures at the Inn of the Burping Troll http://burpingtroll.com





Al Carondas
The Shire

Jan 9 2013, 2:05am

Post #13 of 24 (290 views)
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Interesting theory [In reply to] Can't Post

But I think that the ring abandoned Gollum without any forethought per se. In the book, the Ring is lost before Bilbo comes along, and so could not have sensed Sting (and as Gandalf surmises would not have chosen Bilbo for an owner). Of course, I understand that the movie scene is the relevant thing, but the lines in the prologue come from the book.

"Good Morning!"


Loresilme
Valinor


Jan 9 2013, 2:24pm

Post #14 of 24 (220 views)
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lol [In reply to] Can't Post

Really! Hitched a ride with the wrong guy Sly.


(This post was edited by Loresilme on Jan 9 2013, 2:25pm)


Loresilme
Valinor


Jan 9 2013, 2:32pm

Post #15 of 24 (211 views)
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And the other forces at work [In reply to] Can't Post

true - and what a good thing it is that Gandalf is on the side of the other forces.


Loresilme
Valinor


Jan 9 2013, 2:39pm

Post #16 of 24 (207 views)
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I thought [In reply to] Can't Post

Bilbo was wearing the Ring when he was knocked out in BO5A?

But true, "Nefarious Plan - Step 1" would be to just get out of that cave in the first place Sly!


Loresilme
Valinor


Jan 9 2013, 2:42pm

Post #17 of 24 (220 views)
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"Except Gollum [In reply to] Can't Post

kept eating the goblins" :-).


Lol, really, not good to keep eating all the potential transportation in the vicinity!


geordie
Tol Eressea

Jan 9 2013, 2:48pm

Post #18 of 24 (224 views)
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hang on - [In reply to] Can't Post

- these quotes are from the movie prologue, aren't they? I only ask because I don't remember them in the book, and what with others chiming in with book quotes, I find things are getting a little confusing.

Tongue


Loresilme
Valinor


Jan 9 2013, 2:49pm

Post #19 of 24 (202 views)
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I agree about the growing presence of Sauron [In reply to] Can't Post

having awakened it and motivated it to try to get out. I was looking at it in terms of the film dialogue and the action depicted between the two scenes, and how they both meshed.

Too bad for the Ring, that it chose to hitch a ride with someone who was not corrupted by it after all.


Loresilme
Valinor


Jan 9 2013, 2:53pm

Post #20 of 24 (209 views)
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There was also [In reply to] Can't Post

the unexpectedness of the Ring choosing one of the few people who ultimately was not susceptible to being corrupted by it after all.


Loresilme
Valinor


Jan 9 2013, 2:55pm

Post #21 of 24 (217 views)
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Yes - to clarify: [In reply to] Can't Post

In my original post I was speaking only of the two movie scenes - the one from the FOTR prologue and the other in AUJ. I was remarking on the action and the dialogue between the two and how they meshed.


(This post was edited by Loresilme on Jan 9 2013, 2:57pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Jan 9 2013, 2:57pm

Post #22 of 24 (211 views)
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Probably my fault [In reply to] Can't Post

I was using the book quote as a suggestion that something else was also at work (beyond the will of the Ring [as in the book]), even in the film (despite it not being explicitly stated).


geordie
Tol Eressea

Jan 9 2013, 6:17pm

Post #23 of 24 (183 views)
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Thanks, guys - [In reply to] Can't Post

- I get confused easily.

Smile


Belung
Registered User

Jan 12 2013, 8:07pm

Post #24 of 24 (133 views)
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Books v. films continuity [In reply to] Can't Post

This scene was certainly consistent the the prologue from FotR, but I was struck by how much more active the Ring was in leaving Gollum while Bilbo was present.

It also puts a new twist on Bilbo's claiming of the Ring just after it "left" Gollum and not merely finding it on the tunnel floor. The chain of events in the film make Bilbo a much more active thief (even if for the ultimate good of Middle Earth).
Seemed a bit like the difference between, on one hand, finding money on the street with no-one around and, on the other, seeing someone drop the money, then taking it and deciding not to return it.

Thank goodness Gandalf suggested a burglar for the quest to Erebor!

Belung
Ranger of the South

 
 

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