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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Radagast scenes should've been combined

Scourge of the Stoors
Rivendell

Jan 6 2013, 3:15am

Post #1 of 24 (803 views)
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Radagast scenes should've been combined Can't Post

While it was essential to show how Radagast came to discover the Necromancer, it was excessive to show him trying to revive his hedgehog while hiding from the spiders.

Also, we get this moment of intrigue and seriousness that is broken by the unceremonious reveal that he has freaking rabbits pulling his sleigh. The quirky element of the rabbits clashes with the importance of the situation.

These two points could've been eliminated by merging the Dol Goldur scene with his introduction

Here:
Radagast arrives upon the Company as in the film. Gandalf says "this is Radagast" etc, etc. Radagast narrates as we see him finding the dead animals and spiders and following the bird to their source. Cue Dol Goldur sequence.

This would've taken the baggage off the absurdity of the Bunny Sleigh, as we would have been introduced to it before he told his story. Thus, when it shows him jump over the hill in it, we're focusing not on the fact that there are rabbits pulling a sleigh, but that he's on a mission.


arithmancer
Grey Havens

Jan 6 2013, 3:22am

Post #2 of 24 (391 views)
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Not freaking rabbits, Rhosgobel Rabbits! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


lurtz2010
Rohan

Jan 6 2013, 3:53am

Post #3 of 24 (386 views)
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what's wrong with the rabbit sled? [In reply to] Can't Post

the whole movie is like a classic disney film so the sled fits in perfectly.

Anyway I thought Radagasts intro was good as it was, I thought his scene in dol guldur could'te een continued straight on from his first buswdcene but that would mean too much time away from bilbo


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jan 6 2013, 3:54am

Post #4 of 24 (371 views)
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What is wrong with the hare drawn sledge? // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Jan 6 2013, 4:00am

Post #5 of 24 (378 views)
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swordwhale makes a comprehensive argument [In reply to] Can't Post

for the practicality and believability of the rabbit sled. Have a look at what she has to say.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauronís master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Jan 6 2013, 4:12am

Post #6 of 24 (358 views)
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loved the rabbit sled [In reply to] Can't Post

fun times!


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty, oh will you please take me home!!


Kimtc
Rohan

Jan 6 2013, 4:30am

Post #7 of 24 (354 views)
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I've grown fond of the bunnies [In reply to] Can't Post

It adds some fairy tale back into the story, some of which is diluted by the addition of the outside elements (which I like, don't get me wrong). One of the aspects of FOTR that makes it so different from the next two is that it retains the most of that sort of fantasy; the next two get less so (as the "dominion of men" takes center stage), with the exception of the ents (who, honestly, got on my nerves as much as they did on Merry's). So yeah, give me giant bunnies, along with dragons, bear shapeshifters, stone giants, etc. I'll take all I can get of that.


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Jan 6 2013, 4:37am

Post #8 of 24 (348 views)
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What's with the "sledge" thing? [In reply to] Can't Post

I've seen it in a couple of places, so i'm assuming it's some kind of joke, but i can't figure it out. What does it mean?


Vaire
The Shire


Jan 6 2013, 4:39am

Post #9 of 24 (335 views)
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Not sure what you mean [In reply to] Can't Post

"Sledge" is just another word for "sled".


Kullervo
Rivendell


Jan 6 2013, 4:50am

Post #10 of 24 (327 views)
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I don't think the rabbit sleigh is absurd [In reply to] Can't Post

It's a fairytale element in a fairytale, so it fits perfectly in my opinion. There are lots of different animals pulling all kinds of sleighs and sleds throughout the history of the wolrd's fairytales, so why not rabbits, especially Rhosgobel Rabbits.


(This post was edited by Kullervo on Jan 6 2013, 4:52am)


Kullervo
Rivendell


Jan 6 2013, 4:59am

Post #11 of 24 (314 views)
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I agree completely [In reply to] Can't Post

Except I loved the ents. But, like you said, I think it is very reasonable to expect and even hope that there is propably going to be fairies in a fairy tale.Wink


sycorax82
Rohan

Jan 6 2013, 5:01am

Post #12 of 24 (319 views)
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Fyi, 'sledge' is just another word for 'sleigh' [In reply to] Can't Post

We say 'sledge' in the UK where I think 'sled' and 'sleigh' are used more in the US...

Oh, and I'm looking forward to the explanation from Peter over the bunnies...maybe he can blame del Toro? ;)


CuriousG
Valinor


Jan 6 2013, 5:02am

Post #13 of 24 (327 views)
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Yes, "silly" and "epic" don't mix [In reply to] Can't Post

I understand that epics can be humorous, but they don't hold up as epics if they're ridiculous. I realize there are lovers and haters of the bunny sled, but everyone should agree it's a silly thing. Just say to someone who hasn't seen the movie, or think of your reaction before you'd ever heard of the movie, if you said "a sled carrying a man pulled by rabbits." Sounds like the punch line of a joke. Yes, it's cute, and it adds levity, and I understand why some people love it, but it created a jarring discontinuity with the epic implications of the Necromancer's presence. (Or at least, the movie tries to be epic; that's another topic.)

Maybe it's a matter of timing? If we only saw the bunny sled when Radagast is light-hearted and happy, and not after the dark magic and Necromancer, then it should have worked, as you slide from a carefree Shire-like state into a dark Mordor-like mood. Just my opinion.


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Jan 6 2013, 5:05am

Post #14 of 24 (312 views)
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Aaah, good to know. [In reply to] Can't Post

In the US, sledge is only used for the type of hammer.


arithmancer
Grey Havens

Jan 6 2013, 5:16am

Post #15 of 24 (314 views)
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Hard for me to say... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Maybe it's a matter of timing? If we only saw the bunny sled when Radagast is light-hearted and happy, and not after the dark magic and Necromancer, then it should have worked, as you slide from a carefree Shire-like state into a dark Mordor-like mood. Just my opinion.


...since the bunny sled worked for me from viewing 1 on. :)

I don't really see how having him save the cute little hedgehog from the dark magic does not match with having him then travel to investigate its source with cute, oversized rabbits providing the transportation.


Vaire
The Shire


Jan 6 2013, 5:20am

Post #16 of 24 (332 views)
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PJ's idea [In reply to] Can't Post

The movie guide book reveals that the bunny sled was all Peter's idea. Although I don't know that blame is the right word, as the vast majority of people I've talked to love it.


swordwhale
Tol Eressea


Jan 6 2013, 5:53am

Post #17 of 24 (294 views)
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mushing bunnies [In reply to] Can't Post

 
LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh

I was so intrigued by the whole thing (also, RofLm AoinG all over my dog crates) I waxed eloquent on it, here...
http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2013/01/03/67872-radagasts-racing-rhosgobel-rabbits-a-recreational-musher-looks-at-the-realities-of-bunny-sledding/

I note someone has pasted a link to the other place it appears. Cool. Now go look up Maddie the Weight Pulling Poodle... five pound poodle, pulls 300... yup, really.

Go outside and play...


swordwhale
Tol Eressea


Jan 6 2013, 6:01am

Post #18 of 24 (292 views)
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faerie tale [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
It adds some fairy tale back into the story, some of which is diluted by the addition of the outside elements (which I like, don't get me wrong). One of the aspects of FOTR that makes it so different from the next two is that it retains the most of that sort of fantasy; the next two get less so (as the "dominion of men" takes center stage), with the exception of the ents (who, honestly, got on my nerves as much as they did on Merry's). So yeah, give me giant bunnies, along with dragons, bear shapeshifters, stone giants, etc. I'll take all I can get of that.


There is a subtle difference between the Hobbit and LOTR, and I think you nailed it. Not only the style; LOTR is Epic and Hobbit is a fast paced fairy tale in the oral tradition... but that Hobbit contains more "magic", more classic "out there" faerie tale elements. More whimsy if you will. I think that must have been one of the harder things to do; make this set of films look like LOTR, carry the serious beginnings of that epic, and still have the faerie tale quality, stone giants and trolls and all that. I was struck by the Dwarf designs; they seem to embody that quality of the tale being both quirky faerie tale and serious epic saga. There are characters that are perilously close to cartoon: Bifur (Bifurcation means the splitting of a main body into two parts) with the orc axe in his head, for instance... only it works, beautifully, because, um, because WETA folk are geniuses. Because there is enough realism in look and character to carry off the slightly out there stuff.

Go outside and play...


swordwhale
Tol Eressea


Jan 6 2013, 6:07am

Post #19 of 24 (298 views)
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you say tomato.... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
We say 'sledge' in the UK where I think 'sled' and 'sleigh' are used more in the US...

Oh, and I'm looking forward to the explanation from Peter over the bunnies...maybe he can blame del Toro? ;)


U.S.: Sledge (besides being a Dwarvish weapon) could be the sort of stone sledge my dad's family used (pulled by a mule or two) to move heavy dirt or rock, very Dwarvish. Sleigh; pulled by horse or horses (think jingle bells). Sled: thing you slide down hill on, Flexible Flyer or Lightning Guider, also possibly a washing machine lid or car hood... also, sled pulled by dogs. Unless you're on skis, then it's ski-joring (and slightly crazy).

I really want to see someone explain where the bunny sled came from...

A musher friend sent me pic of a miniature dogsled being pulled by a... toad. He was doing a great job, nice tight gangline...

Go outside and play...


swordwhale
Tol Eressea


Jan 6 2013, 6:13am

Post #20 of 24 (285 views)
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on cuteness... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
Maybe it's a matter of timing? If we only saw the bunny sled when Radagast is light-hearted and happy, and not after the dark magic and Necromancer, then it should have worked, as you slide from a carefree Shire-like state into a dark Mordor-like mood. Just my opinion.


...since the bunny sled worked for me from viewing 1 on. :)



I don't really see how having him save the cute little hedgehog from the dark magic does not match with having him then travel to investigate its source with cute, oversized rabbits providing the transportation.


It occurs to me that this year there have been several portrayals of rabbits in film, in which they have Power. Somewhere in the British Isles, there was a goddess whose animals was Rabbit (we still remember this as the Easter Bunny). This was, I think, a symbol of renewal in spring. In Rise of theGuardians, we have an Easter Bunny who's 6' tall, has a pair of wicked boomerangs, tribal tattoos, and sounds like Wolverine from the X-Men (because he is Hugh Jackman). giving the archetype back its power.

There is something about the way Radagast responds to those are (blahblah) wargs with "Rhosgobel Rabbits" which suggests the true power of Rabbit, not the cutesey thing he's become in our modern culture. those bunnies dashing through the forest over everything in their way look very much like they could outrun any champion sprint racing sled dogs on their trail!

Go outside and play...


Scourge of the Stoors
Rivendell

Jan 6 2013, 8:34am

Post #21 of 24 (259 views)
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CuriousG articulated my point [In reply to] Can't Post

With better phrasing than I used. They can be any rabbits upon explanation, but when we first see them, they're still rabbits. Having them properly introduced would've given me time to digest them instead of having a bunch of bunnies pulling a sleigh shot in my face when I'm supposed to be wondering about where the spiders came from.

Aside from the bunny thing, what do you all think of the concept of combining the scenes?


Kullervo
Rivendell


Jan 6 2013, 8:56am

Post #22 of 24 (245 views)
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Bunnies aside [In reply to] Can't Post

I think combining the scenes would have propably worked well. The introduction of Radagast when they meet on the road, like you put it in your scenario, I think would have been a good choice, because this way we wouldn't have suddenly jumped away from Bilbo and his journey but rather Bilbo would have met Radagast on his journey and heard him tell what is going on somewhere far away ahead in Mirkwood. After all Bilbo is suppose to be the narrator of the story, and we are suppose to see the story from his perspective. But I also understand that given the inclusion of the Dol Guldur plot it is going to be impossible to maintain the narrative perspective completely from Bilbo's point of view, so I didn't have problems with the way it is now. And I definetly wouldn't exclude Sebastian the Hedgehog. Sebastian is awesome! I'd propably have him appear at TBO5A in full hedgehog battle armour and kick some serious orc-ass.Smile


arithmancer
Grey Havens

Jan 6 2013, 2:31pm

Post #23 of 24 (204 views)
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Big rabbits [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, they are rabbits, but visually, they are not "just" rabbits. They are a lot bigger than "real life" rabbits. To me this no more needed explanation than a Warg being ridden by an Orc (one appears without explanation right after the Azanulbizar flashback scene). The movie had at that point established Radagast was a wizard (including using Saruman-style elfish-language spells and apparent knowledge of herb-lore), and has an affinity for woodland creatures (including birds who come when he calls and whose speech he understands, hedgehogs who understand his speech, and animals that seek shelter from danger in his house). Discovering he has a team of giant rabbits and a sled they pull seems to fit with his image. I don't think explaining it up front would have helped; I think that is usually a weak way to introduce new elements in a movie (it is failing to take advantage of what is, is after all, a visual medium).


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jan 7 2013, 12:28am

Post #24 of 24 (106 views)
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We agree. [In reply to] Can't Post

Rare? lol I do think the same though. Radagast going about his enchanted forest, trying to heal the sudden accursedness that has fallen upon it, helped the film retain the fairytale atmosphere of the book, even though that scene isn't in the book. The only thing that bothered me was all the eyecrossing Radagast did in what was otherwise an impressive show of his skill as a Wizard.

In Reply To
the whole movie is like a classic disney film so the sled fits in perfectly.

Anyway I thought Radagasts intro was good as it was, I thought his scene in dol guldur could'te een continued straight on from his first buswdcene but that would mean too much time away from bilbo


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

 
 

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