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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Where are Azog and his wolf pack from??

Avnar
Rohan


Jan 5 2013, 10:05pm

Post #1 of 17 (695 views)
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Where are Azog and his wolf pack from?? Can't Post

Question... Where are Azog and his wolf pack from?

The Wargs are from Gundabad...we know that. "Those are Gundabad Wargs" -Gandalf

Now the first we see of Azog he is at Moria, and then we see him carried back inside after getting injured by Thorin. The dwarves win that battle -but they do not retake Moria. So I assume he stays at Moria...?

The reason I ask is that Elrond refers to the orcs that they confront as "Orcs from the south" ...so they must be still living in Moria? Gundabad is clearly to the north and Moria to the south.

Crazy


YaznegSouth40
Rivendell

Jan 5 2013, 10:19pm

Post #2 of 17 (452 views)
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Azog and crew are from... [In reply to] Can't Post

Gundabad originally I believe ....but during the time of the War versus the dwarves Azog had moved into Moria. His son Bolg I believe is at Dol Guldur until the time of the Battle of Five Armies he goes to the orc stronghold at Gundabad where he can gather the largest colonies of orcs and march to battle.


(This post was edited by YaznegSouth40 on Jan 5 2013, 10:22pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Jan 5 2013, 10:51pm

Post #3 of 17 (324 views)
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Perhaps this is a movie error? [In reply to] Can't Post

Wouldn't be the first time an Elf got their geography wrong in PJ's movies!


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Jan 5 2013, 11:20pm

Post #4 of 17 (313 views)
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i thought bolg was at gundabad? [In reply to] Can't Post

dol-guldur didn't seem very occupied when radagast went there.


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty, oh will you please take me home!!


Roheryn
Grey Havens

Jan 5 2013, 11:32pm

Post #5 of 17 (348 views)
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Azog clearly has good taste in Wargs. [In reply to] Can't Post

I figured from Gandalf's comment "But these are Gundabad Wargs!" that there must be a number of different breeds of Wargs -- which, as an aside, suggests the Orcs must be breeding them for particular traits, which in turn suggests a whole 'nother aspect of Orc culture I'd never thought about. So maybe the Dol Guldur Wargs are bred for extra nastiness, and Moria Orcs are bred for maneuverability in tight dark places, and Gundabad Wargs are the thoroughbreds of the Warg world: lean mean running machines. So Azog need not be from Gundabad himself; he's just selected his stable of Wargs from there.

Just my idle speculation. Smile


Vaire
The Shire


Jan 6 2013, 12:03am

Post #6 of 17 (290 views)
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Balin's flashback scene [In reply to] Can't Post

When Balin is describing the battle, he does refer to Azog as a "Gundabad orc".


Retro315
Rivendell

Jan 6 2013, 1:08am

Post #7 of 17 (252 views)
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Gundabad [In reply to] Can't Post

Gundabad definitely seems to be used (fairly and logically, I think) to indicate a 'northern origin'. The Gundabad-based Wargs are more wolf-like, and I guess that would make the previous Wargs of TLOTR "Southern" or "Mordor Wargs", which would explain their hyena-appearance. Gandalf knew they must have come from Gundabad because that location was the capitol of Orc-kind and pretty much the only place they could send a party into Eriador from (Angmar/Gundabad/Ettenmoors).

And Azog is a Gundabad Orc. But Azog's white Warg Chieftain is also different from the G. Wargs, so perhaps it's from even further north? (Forodwaith? Utumno?!) or more likely, I think, it is a holdout, a last survivor of the special breed of white wolves that The Witch-king loosed upon Arnor during the Angmar Wars. (I think there are absolute ties being established between the Northern Orcs and The Witch-king, and bolstering 'His' reputation by making him the perceived threat (and maybe 'believed to be Necromancer') will actually help build Sauron's reputation in the long run, if his chief servant is regarded as a potential Enemy-to-All.


Oin's parasite
Rivendell


Jan 6 2013, 1:37am

Post #8 of 17 (237 views)
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I love... [In reply to] Can't Post

That Peter Jackson made Gundabad orcs the mega-orcs of Middle Earth. Besides Azog (whom is the most dangerous and titanic Orc we have seen in all the films) all the other orcs we saw at the gates of Khazad-Dum were HUGE, and looked like they could mop the floor with any Mordor or Isengard Orc/Uruk-hai.

"I have parasites as big as me arm!"


Avnar
Rohan


Jan 6 2013, 1:45am

Post #9 of 17 (239 views)
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Well... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
dol-guldur didn't seem very occupied when radagast went there.


We know Bolg was at Moria during the battle of Azanulbizar (sp?) as we saw him fighting Dwalin...and that is all we know about him for the moment.

Speaking of which -what a horrid way of introducing his character into the film. Unsure Oh and while we are on the subject of Bolg...I noticed that Sharku (leader of the Warg riders from TTT) has similar leather straps on his face to those of Bolg!


Aitieuriskon
Lorien


Jan 6 2013, 1:57am

Post #10 of 17 (226 views)
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They did come from the south (at least at the moment the elves encountered them) [In reply to] Can't Post

The hunting party was following the dwarves. The dwarves were approaching Rivendell from the South. Ergo, the elves did indeed disburse an orc pack which was approaching from the South. Where they originally came from is seemingly insignificant to Elrond, who seemed to side with Saruman in the "orc-pack not a big deal" argument.

"After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of 'truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear." Professor Tolkien, 1951


Oin's parasite
Rivendell


Jan 6 2013, 1:59am

Post #11 of 17 (233 views)
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Lots of people keep saying that but... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it is just another Orc with a beard...

"I have parasites as big as me arm!"


triptrap
Lorien

Jan 6 2013, 11:41am

Post #12 of 17 (138 views)
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that made me wonder as well [In reply to] Can't Post

i guess the reason is found in elrond not caring much about the orc pack's "political" background. they came from the south to attack the dwarves, but it isn't important where they originated from or who rules them etc.


triptrap
Lorien

Jan 6 2013, 11:49am

Post #13 of 17 (140 views)
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i don't agree [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
That Peter Jackson made Gundabad orcs the mega-orcs of Middle Earth. Besides Azog (whom is the most dangerous and titanic Orc we have seen in all the films) all the other orcs we saw at the gates of Khazad-Dum were HUGE, and looked like they could mop the floor with any Mordor or Isengard Orc/Uruk-hai.



they are not the mega-orcs of middle-earth at all. most of them were hardly or only little bigger and taller than dwarves. and their weapons and armor were completely primitive(being mostly fur). no comparison to the heavily armored gorgoroth troops or uruk-hai of helms-deep.
i hope desperately that the one's we're going to see in BOFA are bigger bad-asses


(This post was edited by triptrap on Jan 6 2013, 11:51am)


Aitieuriskon
Lorien


Jan 6 2013, 4:09pm

Post #14 of 17 (107 views)
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I wouldn't give up hope [In reply to] Can't Post

There were definitely some more large "pale orcs" in the background chaos of the Azanulbizar sequence. I think we will definitely see more of them in the next two films, though I think the hunter-orc type will continue to be more common (as they should be - we can't have Middle Earth rife with uber-orcs, it would detract from Saruman's orc-breeding scenes in TTT)

"After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of 'truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear." Professor Tolkien, 1951


triptrap
Lorien

Jan 6 2013, 4:13pm

Post #15 of 17 (103 views)
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hope so too [In reply to] Can't Post

and they should give them some more decent clothing, cause the weird bone and fur stuff in the movie didn't do it for me


YaznegSouth40
Rivendell

Jan 6 2013, 7:16pm

Post #16 of 17 (99 views)
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Yes the wargs are.. [In reply to] Can't Post

something serious in comparison to the "hyenas" from TTT! That huge white warg is AWESOME and a match for Azog to stride into battle on! I hope the Bridge Direct does a figure of them as a beast pack..that would be a must have! I like the striping on the white warg as well! The white warg seems to be more ferocious as well!


(This post was edited by YaznegSouth40 on Jan 6 2013, 7:17pm)


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jan 7 2013, 12:16am

Post #17 of 17 (110 views)
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The Official Visual Companion to the movie states, in keeping with the novel, that the Wargs [In reply to] Can't Post

of The Hobbit are an independent, evil race/can, of wicked, demonic wolves. They aid the orcs out of mutual wickedness but are not of the orcs specific breeding, though the Gundabad line does suggest otherwise. Though not necessarily. They might just be from the region surrounding Gundabad.

In Reply To
I figured from Gandalf's comment "But these are Gundabad Wargs!" that there must be a number of different breeds of Wargs -- which, as an aside, suggests the Orcs must be breeding them for particular traits, which in turn suggests a whole 'nother aspect of Orc culture I'd never thought about. So maybe the Dol Guldur Wargs are bred for extra nastiness, and Moria Orcs are bred for maneuverability in tight dark places, and Gundabad Wargs are the thoroughbreds of the Warg world: lean mean running machines. So Azog need not be from Gundabad himself; he's just selected his stable of Wargs from there.

Just my idle speculation. Smile


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

 
 

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